Members zachoff Posted June 7, 2005 Members Share Posted June 7, 2005 Originally posted by oneinchshawn I can't believe no one has brought this up yet! They will be using GPS systems to track how far you go, meaning that they will know where you are ALL THE TIME. Now I find that to be very disconcerting. Hence the big brother comment... I have nothing with GPS on it and I never will. The thought of someone being able to find out everywhere I go is a little disconcerting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thrash Jazz Posted June 7, 2005 Members Share Posted June 7, 2005 Originally posted by zachoff Hence the big brother comment... I have nothing with GPS on it and I never will. The thought of someone being able to find out everywhere I go is a little disconcerting. You may want to look into whether your car has a black box. Those don't use GPS (yet, as far as I know) but they do record lots of information that you might not be pleased about - speed, distance etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zachoff Posted June 7, 2005 Members Share Posted June 7, 2005 Originally posted by Thrash Jazz You may want to look into whether your car has a black box. Those don't use GPS (yet, as far as I know) but they do record lots of information that you might not be pleased about - speed, distance etc. Lots of black boxes! One holds the air filter. One holds the.. I don't know if it does, really. 97 Civic & a 98 Bonneville.. Anyone know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Real MC Posted June 7, 2005 Members Share Posted June 7, 2005 I don't know about the UK, but the federal gas tax in the US is directed by the Highway Commission to building new highways and maintaining existing ones. Adding a pay-as-you-drive tax would be double taxation. And it would fly in the face of government as hypocrisy when they are pushing for better fuel efficiency in cars and sales of fuel-efficient cars are rising with the cost of gas. I mean how two-faced can you get?!? Some states here are considering a pay-as-you-drive tax, but that's a double taxation dilemma as most interstates are toll roads whose tolls (read: taxes) are collected by the state... Bad idea, this pay-as-you-drive tax. This could spark a revolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members niomosy Posted June 7, 2005 Members Share Posted June 7, 2005 Originally posted by Thrash Jazz You may want to look into whether your car has a black box. Those don't use GPS (yet, as far as I know) but they do record lots of information that you might not be pleased about - speed, distance etc. There was also some talk about auto insurance companies wanting to install black boxes into cars. In return for lower premiums, I think. I recall the suggesting that it was voluntary but I'd bet it would turn mandatory. I don't like this whole pay-as-you-drive thing. Bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thrash Jazz Posted June 7, 2005 Members Share Posted June 7, 2005 Originally posted by niomosy There was also some talk about auto insurance companies wanting to install black boxes into cars. In return for lower premiums, I think. I recall the suggesting that it was voluntary but I'd bet it would turn mandatory. Agreed, give it time... Some auto companies already install them by default - a fact which is not always mentioned to the buyer. Then, if you get into an accident, all of a sudden there is a piece of evidence you didn't know about. I'm not sure which companies do this off the top of my head... Ford and Chrysler spring to mind, but I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members niomosy Posted June 7, 2005 Members Share Posted June 7, 2005 Originally posted by Thrash Jazz Agreed, give it time...Some auto companies already install them by default - a fact which is not always mentioned to the buyer. Then, if you get into an accident, all of a sudden there is a piece of evidence you didn't know about.I'm not sure which companies do this off the top of my head... Ford and Chrysler spring to mind, but I could be wrong. In this case, I believe the insurance companies were installing their own black boxes, not using ones that manufacturers might install. It's been a while so I'm hazy on the details. I don't like it either way. I'll just avoid buying cars that use these "features" for as long as possible, then disable them if everyone starts installing them by default. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members L-1329 Posted June 7, 2005 Members Share Posted June 7, 2005 Anyone who drives a recently made GM car, any GM car has Onstar in it and that is exactly what it does. A friend of my parents was a GM VP of marketing, and one of his divisions handled Onstar. When you buy a car that system is on all the time, whether you opt for the package or not. It can control every function of the car from their main headquarters, including shutting the engine off while it's being driven. The feature you get like unlocking your doors and calling them for directions are but a 10th of what it is doing. Not only that, but GM keeps a database on every car, which includes every that car has been and every other piece of data that comes from it. Do you think that they have had people beating down their doors to buy that info? You bet! Lawyers, insurance companies, law enforcement and other government agencies. It's all there, and it is only a matter of time before it is made public and no one will be able to stop it. The potential for abuse is frightening with this stuff, and it that goes through in the UK then we're all going to be facing the same battle in time. Oh, and you cannot disable it effectively without affecting the normal operations of the car. They made sure of that. Don't know about Ford or Chrysler, I would guess they have something similiar. GM will not admit what that stuff does and I doubt the others would either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members niomosy Posted June 7, 2005 Members Share Posted June 7, 2005 Originally posted by L-1329 Anyone who drives a recently made GM car, any GM car has Onstar in it and that is exactly what it does. A friend of my parents was a GM VP of marketing, and one of his divisions handled Onstar. When you buy a car that system is on all the time, whether you opt for the package or not. It can control every function of the car from their main headquarters, including shutting the engine off while it's being driven. The feature you get like unlocking your doors and calling them for directions are but a 10th of what it is doing. Not only that, but GM keeps a database on every car, which includes every that car has been and every other piece of data that comes from it. Do you think that they have had people beating down their doors to buy that info? You bet! Lawyers, insurance companies, law enforcement and other government agencies. It's all there, and it is only a matter of time before it is made public and no one will be able to stop it. The potential for abuse is frightening with this stuff, and it that goes through in the UK then we're all going to be facing the same battle in time. Oh, and you cannot disable it effectively without affecting the normal operations of the car. They made sure of that. Don't know about Ford or Chrysler, I would guess they have something similiar. GM will not admit what that stuff does and I doubt the others would either. I figured it was going to be pretty bad. I'd imagine that the reason that the OnStar stuff isn't easily bypassed yet is because a lot of the techie types that would be working on this kind of stuff aren't likely buying GM much (or any American-brand car for that matter). As soon as other companies start instituting these kinds of things, we'll start seeing bypass chips and other such stuff come out to get around this stuff. It seems almost inevitable that the real hackers will start working on it but probably not until they feel that it really has an impact on them directly. Who knows, there may already be work going on for OnStar. It wouldn't really surprise me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zeromus-X Posted June 7, 2005 Members Share Posted June 7, 2005 I don't know if this situation is the same, but the theory around this side of the water was that the amount of miles would be calculated and you'd pay based on that. Gas prices would be lowered since a good amount goes towards highway repair/construction. The problem a lot of people had was that this is punishing to people who drive fuel-efficient cars, and a completely wonderful thing to the guy who has the 4MPG Hummer in his driveway. I personally like my theory better. Rather than charging you per mile, have a sensor that detects (a) your mileage, and (b) your average miles per gallon since last fillup. When you get to the pump, your mileage and MPG is factored into the cost of the tank of gas. That is, you are charged a certain amount based on how many miles you have driven, but are given a certain percentage break based on your gas mileage between now and the last fillup. Obviously this system has flaws (such as the guy who pushes his car to the gas station with 3 miles on it total, and fills up portable containers to load his SUV with), but I think it works better than a flat per-mile fee, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rippin' Robin Posted June 7, 2005 Members Share Posted June 7, 2005 They're just agreed to implement this system in the Netherlands as well in a few years.People with old, polluting cars pay more than cleaner cars.I'm just wondering about that... how are they going to check that?My car runs on 50-75% of sunflower oil and because of that it's cleaner than most new diesel cars, but they'll tax me for a heavily polluting car none the less Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members beam Posted June 7, 2005 Members Share Posted June 7, 2005 Demo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Benjamin Posted June 8, 2005 Members Share Posted June 8, 2005 I think Segway should be given some sort of prize for what they have invented. I am itching to take one for a ride! They are the future in transport. As soon as I can afford one, I'm buying! In the meantime, the plans to charge drivers according to the distance they drive, is not a bad idea IMHO. Of course there are the issues many of you raise, there always are. I personally don't have an issue with my movements being tracked. If someone wanted my movements tracked hard enough, they could pay someone very little to do it. As long as those logs are only held for courts of law (or own personal use), and a data expiry period is also enforced (this I am not 100% sure on) then I am happy. This system potentially reduces the rate of crime committed where vehicles are used. How easy would it be for the authorities to keep an eye on where known criminals are driving? Hey Billy the Junk Pimp has just gone to a warehouse we know is a haven for drug importers, whadd'ya know? I believe the only way to make this work properly is if they adopt some of the ideas put forward by the Toyota Sportivo Concept (Australia). Each driver is given their license, and irrespective of the vehicle they are driving, it is they who are identified as clocking up the miles/kilometres. Each vehicle must be resgistered of course, which forms part of the travel logs. Registration numbers of vehicles can actually be formed from the vehicle identification number itself. No more silly number plates. I would drive less for sure, I would also take my ageing vehicle off the road (as I plan to) and race where I can, legally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members beam Posted June 8, 2005 Members Share Posted June 8, 2005 I had the chance to try one out for about 3 hours or so, pretty cool experience!http://duet.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=943684&highlight=segway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members januaryscar Posted June 8, 2005 Members Share Posted June 8, 2005 Ha! You guys should try living in Sydney. Traffic is terrible, road tolls are high, roads are in a terrible condition, and public transport is a mess. It is normal for a train to be delayed for 40 minutes. Our state government just looks the other way when it comes to these problems. They care more about what movies are being filmed here than these problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dark Slide Posted June 8, 2005 Members Share Posted June 8, 2005 In Maine whle I was growing up, you paid based on how many miles you drove on the pike. now it's just a flate rate... but you used to get a ticket saying where you got on, and then you would give to to the dude when you got off and paid them whatever you were due. If you lost the card, you had to pay the maximum. *Shrug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Benjamin Posted June 8, 2005 Members Share Posted June 8, 2005 Tollways are useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zeromus-X Posted June 8, 2005 Members Share Posted June 8, 2005 Originally posted by Dark Slide In Maine whle I was growing up, you paid based on how many miles you drove on the pike. now it's just a flate rate... but you used to get a ticket saying where you got on, and then you would give to to the dude when you got off and paid them whatever you were due. If you lost the card, you had to pay the maximum.*Shrug* They still do that a lot. Jersey Turnpike, Garden State Parkway are two that come to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the_big_geez Posted June 8, 2005 Members Share Posted June 8, 2005 Originally posted by Rowka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members niomosy Posted June 8, 2005 Members Share Posted June 8, 2005 Originally posted by Benjamin I think Segway should be given some sort of prize for what they have invented. I am itching to take one for a ride! They are the future in transport. As soon as I can afford one, I'm buying! In the meantime, the plans to charge drivers according to the distance they drive, is not a bad idea IMHO. Of course there are the issues many of you raise, there always are. I personally don't have an issue with my movements being tracked. If someone wanted my movements tracked hard enough, they could pay someone very little to do it. As long as those logs are only held for courts of law (or own personal use), and a data expiry period is also enforced (this I am not 100% sure on) then I am happy. The problem is with those logs being only held for courts of law and data expiration being enforced. I have zero trust in companies adhering to these policies (whether openly or saying they comply while doing just the opposite behind our backs). No Big Brother for me, thanks.If you wanna charge, I'll just go the toll road route. I'd rather deal with toll roads than some black box in my car that gives way too much info out.Then, of course, I'll just take alternate routes. In L.A. there's almost always plenty of streets to get you where you want to go Right now, SoCal have pushed toll roads for faster travel times. They still have the "freeways" as we call them. That's fine. Let the people that want to pay put in their money. The rest of us will just deal with the traffic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zeromus-X Posted June 8, 2005 Members Share Posted June 8, 2005 Originally posted by the_big_geez The system could also track how often you drive during rush hour and charge higher fees to discourage peak use. That's an idea that could break the bottleneck on California's freeways. I love this, that's my favorite part. Yeah, I drive during rush hour because I enjoy it and choose to. {censored}ing asshats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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