Members mlwarriner Posted September 2, 2005 Members Share Posted September 2, 2005 Here's my problem. I'm playing the Stingray through mine, no FX, just straight to the head. FET and Tube channel gain are pretty reasonable, with no distortion to speak of, maybe just the slightest hint of Tube OD, but very minimal. Individual channel volumes are pretty low as well, and nearly balanced, with the tube channel being just a smidge higher. I've got the active input on, which I assume means for active basses. I can only just crack open the volume on the Stingray before my clip light starts going crazy. Doesn't seem to matter which strings I'm playing on, though turning down the highs on my bass makes the G and C strings hit the clip less (I'm tuned C-G-C-F and D-G-C-F). Is it just a matter of a "too-hot" bass, or is there something else at work here? Please and thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members basshunter Posted September 2, 2005 Members Share Posted September 2, 2005 I have alerted the maestro... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MageZ Posted September 2, 2005 Members Share Posted September 2, 2005 I think it needs some serious inspection. Just send it to me and I will take care of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members basshunter Posted September 2, 2005 Members Share Posted September 2, 2005 *waves a big flag in the general direction of Suffield, CT* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hasbeen Posted September 2, 2005 Members Share Posted September 2, 2005 thanks for the email basshunter. Problem- it is tough to say via email/post but let me ask you some questions. * Where are the levels?.....gains vs. volumes vs. master?* Which light is showing clipping? Is is the input channel ones or the "Christmas Tree" clip/limit one by the master volume section?* Do you hear the clipping or is the light just tripping?* Do you have a three band on the Ray. If so, how high do you have those, especially the mids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mlwarriner Posted September 2, 2005 Author Members Share Posted September 2, 2005 Originally posted by hasbeen thanks for the email basshunter.Problem- it is tough to say via email/post but let me ask you some questions.* Where are the levels?.....gains vs. volumes vs. master?* Which light is showing clipping? Is is the input channel ones or the "Christmas Tree" clip/limit one by the master volume section?* Do you hear the clipping or is the light just tripping?* Do you have a three band on the Ray. If so, how high do you have those, especially the mids? Gains are around 8 or 9 o'clock, with 12 being straight up. individual channel volumes are roughly similar, maybe closer to 10 o'clock. master volume is around 11 o'clock, give or take. running one side at 4 ohms into a peavey 412TVX the red light on the christmas tree is the one that's flashing, over near the power switch. it flashes when i'm playing, worse when i play harder, less when i play softer. i don't hear the clipping, it's just the light going off. the ray is a 2-band, and i usually run the lows full up and the highs just a little less than full up. i can get less action from the light if i dial down the knobs on the pre, but then (IMO) the sound suffers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 2, 2005 Members Share Posted September 2, 2005 Let me help Roger out here as I was the primary engineer of the GBE-1200... Assuming it's the tube preamp clip light: First of all, for the Stingray and other basses that are pretty hot, need to use the active switch on the input section. Because the tube preamp section was designed to be overdriven, there is additional gain available in the preamp to allow for overdriving with lower output basses like the P & J (as opposed to P, B & J???). Because of this, a hot bass will overdrive the preamp much more quickly. In the tube stage, the clip light indicates that you are beginning to overdrive the tube... and this may indeed be a desireable mode of operation. I designed the clip light circuit threshold to indicate this visually so that you are immediately aware of this due to the channel switching nature of the preamp... this way there are no surprises. Visual indication is good! If it's the clip light on the power amp, it should be insanely loud, so I doubt that's what you are talking about. How does it operate with other basses? By chance was your Stingray modified for a hotter output level? It's possible to modify some onboard preamps to deliver over line level which would be way hot... most am,ps would not be able to accomodate this kind of level. Also, with the Stingray eq, if it's all maxed out, you can easily get over 1 volt output... enough to drive a PA power amp WITHOUT a preamp!!! How does it operate on the FET channel? Andy FieldProduct Development EngineerGenz Benz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hasbeen Posted September 2, 2005 Members Share Posted September 2, 2005 I would have suspected you had the eq on the bass up high. You are taking a hot preamp and bringing it to the max. I know you feel the sound will suffer if you turn these down but you shoud still try. With a little experimenting I think you'll find you actually like your tone better. This is what I call the "everything louder then everything else syndrome". Pro Audio guys call it slider creep. What happens is you want bass so, you up the bass. Then, you can't hear the highs so you up them. Then you want more mids so those go up. Now it doesn't sound bassy enough so those get raised...etc. Try setting everything on the bass at mid point, even the volume. Now go to your amp and tailor a sound. Start with everything flat and go a couple of clicks here and a couple there. Try an experiment- with everything flat, if it doesn't sound bassy enough, take out a couple of clicks of mids. Have you checked the amp with another bass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mlwarriner Posted September 2, 2005 Author Members Share Posted September 2, 2005 Andy - using the active switch on the amp, and it is the power amp clip light (the red one over near the power switch/master volume). and it isn't what i would call insanely loud. it's loud, but not to extreme levels. i don't know if the stingray has been modded, but it worked fine before, with a trace v6, so i'm guessing it's stock. i've tried it with another bass with similar results. but the other bass was an ibanez srx700, which has hella high output anyhow, so... Roger: i'll spend some more time working with it next practice. i just shot for some decent sound and twiddled little from there. i'll go early and concentrate more on it. thanks guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hasbeen Posted September 2, 2005 Members Share Posted September 2, 2005 sounds good, please let me know how it goes. Twenty five years ago I only had two active basses- A mid 70's Ray and a Ken Smith. Although active, these weren't nearly as hot as todays pre's. I bought some "modern" basses last year. A Zon (barto pre), USA Lakland (barto pre) and Mike Lull (aguilar pre). All are three band. I loved having that mid control where we didn't have that "back in the day". Well, having that -/+ 18db in all these different ranges led to me "over-eq'ing" and running my amps into clipping. I also lost transparencie in my tone and it sounded artificial. As soon as I brought everything back, with a little tweaking, my tone is much better, the bass and amp respond better and, no clipping. I know you don't have mid on your bass but I started pulling out a very, very small smidge of mids when I felt I didn't have enough bass. This accentuated the bass and I wasn't slamming the front end of the amp so hard. So, try that with the mids on your amp. Don't "scoop" them, just a couple of clicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 2, 2005 Members Share Posted September 2, 2005 Ok, the power amp clip LED... What cabinets (and individual impedances) are you using? What's the total impedance you are driving? Do you have the output limiter engaged? Do you have the LF extend engaged with a lot of bass boost on the EQ? (What I'm trying to determine is if you may be trying to get more LF extension than your speakers can efficiently reproduce) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mlwarriner Posted September 2, 2005 Author Members Share Posted September 2, 2005 Originally posted by agedhorse Ok, the power amp clip LED...What cabinets (and individual impedances) are you using? What's the total impedance you are driving?Do you have the output limiter engaged?Do you have the LF extend engaged with a lot of bass boost on the EQ?(What I'm trying to determine is if you may be trying to get more LF extension than your speakers can efficiently reproduce) i'm running a peavey 412tvx at 4 ohms. the output limiter is off. the lf boost is engaged, with a fair amount of boost, it's probably around 1 o'clock. the eq has some boost in the lows and low mids, but not a disproportionate amount. i tend to boost everything a little anyhow. probably "creeping sliders" like roger said... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members megadan Posted September 2, 2005 Members Share Posted September 2, 2005 Sounds to me like you're pushing too hard on the lows; maybe try bigger speakers to get that mo' bass? edit: especially with that low tuning!Maybe a Big Ben or some subs are in your future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mlwarriner Posted September 2, 2005 Author Members Share Posted September 2, 2005 Originally posted by megadan Sounds to me like you're pushing too hard on the lows; maybe try bigger speakers to get that mo' bass? edit: especially with that low tuning! Maybe a Big Ben or some subs are in your future? no subs in my future, at least not the immediate future. i've searched long and hard for a moderate priced cabinet that i can comfortably use as a single-cab rig. this peavey is it, as near as i can tell. i don't want to move more cabs...i'm old and tired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hasbeen Posted September 3, 2005 Members Share Posted September 3, 2005 after reading your complete settings- the lows and low mids boosted, plus the bass eq on the instrument boosted and then the LF engaged.....that's the issue, especially without the limiter engaged. Try my suggestions again about starting with everything flat. I think mids are ESSENTIAL to a great tone. For the record- ESPECIALLY for slap tones. I'm on a personal, one-man campaign to get people from scooping their mids for slap. There is not one, seasoned pro that scoops mids for slap....not Marcus, Mark King, Wooten etc. Anyway, sorr for the soap box. So, I love mids. The problem is that the more mids I have, it buries the bass frequencies because mid are easier to hear and reproduce. So for my eq settings, I leave the mids flat on the bass and amp- flat being 12:00. On the instrument, I put the bass on 1/2. That's half way up between the middle detent and full blast. On the amp, my bass is on about 2:00. My low mids are on at 2:00. Mids are flat ... 12:00. While playing, if I'm not cutting through the mix, I just nudge the mids up a bit on the instrument. If my tone is not bassy enough, I DON'T BOOST THE BASS. Instead, I cut the mids just a smidge. With this approach, you don't run into the situation where you're driving the snot out of everything. Give this a shot and let me know how it turns out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hasbeen Posted September 3, 2005 Members Share Posted September 3, 2005 PS- the only bass that I don't do this with is my old Ken Smith. The two band eq on this isn't nearly as powerful as on modern basses. With this instrument I can safely crank the bass knob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NeonVomit Posted September 3, 2005 Members Share Posted September 3, 2005 hasbeen and agedhorse should charge for the sort of customer support they provide on this forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 3, 2005 Members Share Posted September 3, 2005 I would try Roger's suggestions as a starting point. Since all eq's and filters in your rig are active, including the tone controls in your bass, it's possible that with the shelving controls you are inadvertantly boosting the signal more that you realize at a point below where your speaker cabinet is most efficient. That takes up a lot of power with little audible results. It can be hard on speakers too. You are on the 4/8 ohm position with the PowerFlex switch in the back of the amp right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members I stink at bass Posted September 3, 2005 Members Share Posted September 3, 2005 What's up guys! Just wanted to say that I have had ZERO problems with my GBE1200. I use a MM Sterling, Fender American Deluxe FMT Jazz, and Euro Spector at every gig, and I never have to touch a thing on the amp. All my eq settings are flat, and I just use the footswitch. And I still haven't had to turn my master past 3. This amp ROCKS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MacGarnicle Posted September 4, 2005 Members Share Posted September 4, 2005 Originally posted by I stink at bass What's up guys! Just wanted to say that I have had ZERO problems with my GBE1200. I use a MM Sterling, Fender American Deluxe FMT Jazz, and Euro Spector at every gig, and I never have to touch a thing on the amp. All my eq settings are flat, and I just use the footswitch. And I still haven't had to turn my master past 3. This amp ROCKS! Hey ISAB, while you're here... I have your exact rig on order (GBE1200 plus 2x NEO212s). In your experience is it possible/safe to stack the cabs vertically with a rack on top? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members I stink at bass Posted September 6, 2005 Members Share Posted September 6, 2005 Originally posted by MacGarnicle Hey ISAB, while you're here...I have your exact rig on order (GBE1200 plus 2x NEO212s). In your experience is it possible/safe to stack the cabs vertically with a rack on top?Thanks Absolutely! You can stack them any way that you like. I actually stack mine horizontally, because it looks like a KILLER 412. Technically..............IT IS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mlwarriner Posted September 6, 2005 Author Members Share Posted September 6, 2005 Originally posted by agedhorse You are on the 4/8 ohm position with the PowerFlex switch in the back of the amp right? yup. will do some noodling this week at practice, see what the results are... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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