Members Fotowns Finest Posted November 17, 2009 Members Share Posted November 17, 2009 ok guys, just joined about 5 minutes ago after i saw this site while i was looking at musicians friend, and i think ive come to right place to expand my knowledge of the musical world but on to my question: im the lead vocalist in a band, and our practices are getting much more serious and focused, and its getting a little hard for my PA to cut through the rest of the instruments. my PA is this http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Phonic-Powerpod-410-S710-PA-Package?sku=630485. im still quite uninformed on exactly how PA's work, but i want a louder system, and i dont want to buy a whole new one, so should i buy bigger speakers or a better mixer? i can only turn the mixer to just under 4 before it starts to squeal and make annoying loud noises. also if i am to get new speakers, would all brands of speakers work, or just phonic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OverdriveDeluxe Posted November 18, 2009 Members Share Posted November 18, 2009 You would buy a new mixer (go for 500 or more watts) and new speakers. Then, you would use your old PA just for monitors. Your current mixer is only 100 watts so you need a new mixer.Your speakers are only rated around 100 watts so if you buy a new mixer you'd need new speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fotowns Finest Posted November 18, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 18, 2009 You would buy a new mixer (go for 500 or more watts) and new speakers. Then, you would use your old PA just for monitors.Your current mixer is only 100 watts so you need a new mixer.Your speakers are only rated around 100 watts so if you buy a new mixer you'd need new speakers. seriously? man i was really hoping i wouldent have to invest in an entirely new system, but at least i get what your saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jersey Jack Posted November 18, 2009 Members Share Posted November 18, 2009 I don't know your financial situation (or your age), but, really, you thought a $199 PA would work for a band? I applaud your willingness as the singer to finance the PA--some of the folks on the electric guitar list would be shocked to find a vocalist willing to pay for anything--but a serious band needs more than this and committed musicians would chip in to get something more appropriate. The lower end Fender and Yamaha systems are decent and might work ($500-700), but a good low-end PA (using powered speakers) would run you $1200-1500--$400-500 each for the speakers, and another couple of hundred for a mixer. Or you could tell the guitar player to turn down. Welcome to the vocal forum, by the way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ido1957 Posted November 18, 2009 Members Share Posted November 18, 2009 also if i am to get new speakers, would all brands of speakers work, or just phonic? All brands, but make sure you check the impedence of the PA mathces that of the speakers. And if you are planning to use the PA for practicing, you're going to have to convince the guys to turn down so you can hear yourself sing. Otherwise you may get vocal strain from trying to sing loud enough to hear yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeVeReDmUd Posted November 18, 2009 Members Share Posted November 18, 2009 I had the same problem. But I bought the 200watt version of yours. I ended up just buying a USED (CRAIGSLIST for $200) Crown 600w per channel power amp and added it to my mixer. My monitors are the 12" speakers and are able to go up to 250w per channel. I've been heard at practice ever since. Think about it though..... each guitar halfstack runs around 100-150watts each. Plus....the drummer is usually a loud instrument as it is acoustic and cannot be turned down with a knob. Your VOICE is also ACOUSTIC, so obviously it would be best to have them turn down...but good luck with that...my guitarists wouldn't. But they had to turn up like assholes as soon as my PA was up to par. I'm still heard though. haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeVeReDmUd Posted November 18, 2009 Members Share Posted November 18, 2009 I keep the power on the channels of the power amp at 1/2 way or lower. Also, when you set up your sound with your PA mixer....set the EQ(if it has one) at "0" (centered all the way across) THEN turn up the output of that channel so its maxed without feedback. THEN you adjust the MAIN monitor output(main level). This worked great for me, and even made my peepeee 200watt sound better alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeVeReDmUd Posted November 18, 2009 Members Share Posted November 18, 2009 Actually my monitors go up to 150w peak. but a 600 watt power amp at 8 ohms (which these speakers are) it only puts out about 370watts total at max. so I'm really running around 185w per channel at halfway. this works fine for me, but more would be better. I got this mixer setup:http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Phonic-Powerpod-620-Plus-S712-PA-Package?sku=630487 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeVeReDmUd Posted November 18, 2009 Members Share Posted November 18, 2009 here's what I have:I guess I'm not pushing a full 185w then am I? Or else my mopniros would be blown by now. CURRENTLY USING: -AKG D5 Microphone- -Monster cable performer 500 XLR cable (25ft)- -Phonic Powerpod 620 Plus / S712 PA System-[200W 6-Channel powered mixer with DSP, and two Phonic S712 12" 2-way speakers] -Crown XLS 602 Power Amplifier-370 watts per channel at 8 ohms, 600 watts per channel at 4 ohms, 1200 watts at 8 ohms bridged. -SPEAKER FEATURES-SE712• Power capacity: 150W• Frequency response: 60Hz~20KHz• High sensitivity: 95dB SPL@ 1W/1M• Built-in handle plus steel corner protectors• Phone jacks sockets• Dim (HXWXD): 610X410X305(mm) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fotowns Finest Posted November 18, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 18, 2009 my mixer has a low and high EQ, and when i said 4 i actually meant 2. i have both EQ's turned all the way down and have always used the speakers pointed toward me as monitors, except for band practice, and no matter what i can only ever go past 2. me and my friends were actually fooling around with it last night, and long story short i got my voice to project through his 15 watt guitar amp, and it was as loud as my 2 giant speakers, and it really pissed me off. it makes perfect sense though, my mixer only puts 100W worth of volume, and my speakers supposedly put 100W of volume, and if i cant turn it up past 2, that would mean im only putting out about 20W, and my friends guitar amp said 15W on the back, and they deffinetly sounded about the same volume. i think either i got lemon speakers or phonic seriously mislabled how much these paticular speakers put out. either way im looking to get new speakers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tobin1634 Posted November 18, 2009 Members Share Posted November 18, 2009 don't set the EQ all the way down, set it to zero (which is in the middle of the knob) turning it all the way down will limit how loud the thing will go. 100W should be enough especially if you are playing with a guitarist that's only running a 15W amp, which is like miniscule.... sounds like you just need to play with your EQ and settings to get the full power out of that thing. the "squel" you are talking about is feedback and as someone mentioned, it's because the mic is most likely pointed right at the speakers, if you point them towards you (not scattered around the room) it should limit that problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fotowns Finest Posted November 18, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 18, 2009 don't set the EQ all the way down, set it to zero (which is in the middle of the knob) turning it all the way down will limit how loud the thing will go.100W should be enough especially if you are playing with a guitarist that's only running a 15W amp, which is like miniscule....sounds like you just need to play with your EQ and settings to get the full power out of that thing.the "squel" you are talking about is feedback and as someone mentioned, it's because the mic is most likely pointed right at the speakers, if you point them towards you (not scattered around the room) it should limit that problem. like ive said man, ive never had the 2 facing each other, but i will fool around with the EQ's if you say the middle is zero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fjs1229 Posted November 19, 2009 Members Share Posted November 19, 2009 there's something wrong if you can only turn it up to 4. My bandmate has the step up from that one (200w, 6ch) and it starts to feedback only when it's alllllmost cranked. As Tobin said, 12 Oclock on the eq will be 0, so you don't want it turned down all the way. I dunno, someone more knowledgeable might, but could the feedback be related to the mic? I know we don't use the mic that came with it, but dunno why. The kid who owns it just says that the mic is {censored}ty and leaves it at that. If you want to try a new mic, just get a nady. They're known for being decent mics at for those on a serious budget. They'll definitely perform better than the phonic mic that came with the package. We dont know what your room is set up like, but just understand that the noise is feedback, and feedback happens when the noise that comes out of the speakers is picked up by the mic. From there you can start to troubleshoot for your specific space and set up and figure out WHY this is happening. Then again, it is a cheap set up, maybe you got a particularly bad one. All I know is my bandmates PA, though double the wattage, has NO problem keeping up with loud drums and two cranked amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ido1957 Posted November 19, 2009 Members Share Posted November 19, 2009 Maybe sound is bouncing off the walls into the mic and causing feedback?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fotowns Finest Posted November 19, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 19, 2009 idk guys, ill fool around with the setup and see if i cant get any results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeVeReDmUd Posted November 19, 2009 Members Share Posted November 19, 2009 Yup. Center...is "0". Is your guitarist using the 15w amp for practice? Or was that just to see what would happen...? It COULD be the mic. What kind are you using? And what type of cables are you using (for mic AND speakers)? You'll probably end up doing something like I did....adding a power amp to it..or just getting a whole new setup. I know...I know....it costs an arm and a leg. I was sooo frustrated for a long time until I was able to get an adequate volume out of mine. MOOOOOORRRREEEE POWWWWAAAA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tobin1634 Posted November 19, 2009 Members Share Posted November 19, 2009 yeah dude, that mic that comes with that thing is probably junk, if you are a singer, the ONE thing you should spend money on is a good mic, such as the AKG, Shure, or Seinhesier ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fotowns Finest Posted November 20, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 20, 2009 Yup. Center...is "0".Is your guitarist using the 15w amp for practice? Or was that just to see what would happen...?It COULD be the mic. What kind are you using? And what type of cables are you using (for mic AND speakers)?You'll probably end up doing something like I did....adding a power amp to it..or just getting a whole new setup. I know...I know....it costs an arm and a leg. I was sooo frustrated for a long time until I was able to get an adequate volume out of mine. MOOOOOORRRREEEE POWWWWAAAA im using everything that phonic gave me when i ordered it. i messed around with it today, and have had no results. i put the EQ's to 0, actually made it worse as it took away some volume, fooled around with which way the mic was facing, which way the speakers were facing, how far apart they were from each other, and etc. and yes that is the amp my guitarist uses for practice. my bassist uses a 12W bass amp and the drums of course. when we practice i set up one speaker facing them, and the other on its side so it lays like a monitor, on top of the other speaker so it blasts right in my face, because truth be told i wouldnt hear it half as well if it were on the ground. i know theres no feedback or anything like that because when i practice at home with it i have both of them on their side as monitors facing towards me, and theres been absolutely no change in volume between either of these setups. do you guys really think it could be this mic though? maybe even the cables? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chase_acoustic Posted November 20, 2009 Members Share Posted November 20, 2009 I don't know if you live in a city fortunate enough to have a reputable music store around...but most rent equipment. If you are short on funds but need decent equipment call them up and ask how much it would be for 2 10"powered p.a.'s and a decent mixer. It will change your practice 100% if you can actually hear yourself in the mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fotowns Finest Posted November 22, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 22, 2009 ok i fooled with it more today and i found that the further away the mic is from the mixer, the louder i am able to turn it up. it was actually the loudest ive ever heard it get. the only problem is, me and the mic were in a different room than the rest of my equipment, bandmates, their equipment, etc. is there anything at all i could possibly do to reverse this? should i buy a new mic, mixer, speakers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tobin1634 Posted November 23, 2009 Members Share Posted November 23, 2009 yeah dude that's not gonna work. I would definitely buy a new, good mic, it will cost you around $100. try that and see if that makes a difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fotowns Finest Posted November 24, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 24, 2009 yeah dude that's not gonna work. I would definitely buy a new, good mic, it will cost you around $100. try that and see if that makes a difference yea, i figured as much. im thinking ill get a SM58, since ive heard nothing but good about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BigVoiceTenor Posted November 24, 2009 Members Share Posted November 24, 2009 some of the folks on the electric guitar list would be shocked to find a vocalist willing to pay for anything-- Hey I take exception to that remark....oh wait....no I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gsgard Posted November 25, 2009 Members Share Posted November 25, 2009 Sounds like you getting feedback - you can try and avoid that by making sure the front of the microphone isn't pointed toward the speakers. Ditto. Definitely your problem. Power would be your problem if you're up around 9 and can't hear yourself. However, you might still have a problem on stage. You should invest in an active monitor, since the speakers will have to be stage left and right and difficult to hear. If the audience can't hear you then you will need to invest in a more powerful PA or get the band to turn down-NOT going to happen. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeVeReDmUd Posted November 25, 2009 Members Share Posted November 25, 2009 You need to get some thicker speaker cables. I just used a couple guitar/bass 1/4inch cables. It sounded a bit better after that. You DO NEED a good microphone or all your trouble and effort will be in vain.I have an AKG D5 and LOVE IT! Sm57's or SM58's are great too.Each are about $100. other than that...if your guitarist only uses a 13w amp...you should be able to be heard with that peepee PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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