Drummers are funny [and other childish considerations]

[Dark Slide]

Originally posted by ryanstanley well ok, as long as you understand that those other kids are {censored}ing morons i still think going so far as to categorize yourself based on that is stupid though.. why not just say "i'd rather not" and leave it at that? no real reason to even tell anyone you dont drink/smoke/whatever unless they ask you if you want to.. and it's not like it really matters whether you do or not, it's a personal choice. adding the label just seems like you're trying to 'overcome adversity' or some {censored}.. plus it makes you look like a trendy {censored}wad. but whatever, do what you want. at least you're doing it for respectable reasons

 

 

*Shrug* Whys it have to be a bad label? How about THOSE {censored}heads give ME a badname, because you know what? 9 times out of 10 I am more straight than any of them

 

And that is the way I look at it, I don't give them a bad name, they give me a bad name. As far as the title goes, I didn't give me the title, it was given to me. I am well known around here as "The straight-edge" guy... which makes me a huge outcast as the Mexico/Rumford area has an amazing high problem with drugs an alcohol.

[Dark Slide]

Originally posted by ryanstanley you obviously missed the point

 

 

No, I don't think I did. He claims that changing the natural sound of drums is lame and bull{censored} (Regardless of the fact that 99.9% of any studio recorded drums have been edited, compressed and EQ'd like a mother{censored}er) and yet at the same time says that he changes the sound of his music.

 

He gives ME a hard time because supposedly I "...can't get the sound you want with the skill you have." and at the same time admits to having compresed his own music... which means that he obviously can't play all the notes at an even level. Making him a {censored}ing hypocrite.

[ryanstanley]

Originally posted by Dark Slide *Shrug* Whys it have to be a bad label? How about THOSE {censored}heads give ME a badname, because you know what? 9 times out of 10 I am more straight than any of them And that is the way I look at it, I don't give them a bad name, they give me a bad name. As far as the title goes, I didn't give me the title, it was given to me. I am well known around here as "The straight-edge" guy... which makes me a huge outcast as the Mexico/Rumford area has an amazing high problem with drugs an alcohol.

 

 

once again missed the point, but like i said, do what you want.

 

and seriously check out gospel. im really curious what youd think of them

[TheGZeus,OnFire]

Originally posted by Dark Slide There you go. You change the natural sound of your music as well as adding compression. Why don't YOU play everything at an even level so you don't have to... OH WAIT! YOU'LL JUST LET THE ELECTRONICS DO THE WORK! Get the {censored} out of here...

It's actually alot of work to manage 15 knobs AND remember what sample comes next AND work with another improvising vocalist while singing and doing spoken word while playing bass.

But Yeah. What i have to reply to that(because you ignored the rest) is it was never a natural sound to begin with. it was run direct and often was produced by a synthesizer to begin with.

Synths have voltage-based dynamic controllers to begin with. That's all a comp is.

 

When I say 'natural sound' I neglected to mention(my error) than my definition is once it hits the air, it's recorded and left alone.

The most I'll allow is a little reverb if it was recorded in a room with too much dampening.

 

You obviously don't know what Industrial music is. NIN is NOT industrial. Not any more than Erasure is.

Land of Rape an Honey is barely an industrial album. Second Annual Report is REAL industrial. Suicide is real industrial.

Noise is Boredoms, Melt Banana, Melk the g6-49, XBXRX.

SaILo is lounge noise. It's 50% joke, 50% serious 50% piss in pants(inside joke).

So, no I don't mess with a natural sound. I HATED doing that little bit of compression on the sample line, but I was unable to properly control the input volume when it was recorded, at it's a 25 minute track as I recall. I already ahd the stereo balance perfect, and there was no way to get them all equal(to be more torturous to listen to) other than to do compression, or re-record it in one way or another and risk massive nosie increases.

I did a notch filter on one track because a piece of gear had adying transformer that was screaming into the mixer during a performance. {censored}ed up a whole track.

that's all I've done in the past 3 years.

at least 7 albums.

THREE legs.

[TheGZeus,OnFire]

Originally posted by Dark Slide No, I don't think I did. He claims that changing the natural sound of drums is lame and bull{censored} (Regardless of the fact that 99.9% of any studio recorded drums have been edited, compressed and EQ'd like a mother{censored}er) and yet at the same time says that he changes the sound of his music. He gives ME a hard time because supposedly I "...can't get the sound you want with the skill you have." and at the same time admits to having compresed his own music... which means that he obviously can't play all the notes at an even level. Making him a {censored}ing hypocrite.

Not regardless of that fact, BECAUSE of that fact. They all sound like {censored}. They don't sound like drums. Bands that want that sound should just get a drum machine and have some guy flail around pretending to play.

 

Yeah. i compressed some SAMPLES on ONE track of ONE album.

You use a machine to play your drums for you.

ALL THE TIME.

[Dark Slide]

Dude. It doesn't matter. You can talk all you want, but everyone here knows you use effects to change the sound. Be it distortion on the guitar, compression, or anything else.

You're a {censored}ing hypocrite.

You can't keep up with how fast {censored} is going. WELL SLOW IT DOWN UNTIL YOU HAVE THE SKILL TO DO SO!

{censored}ing lamer...

I listened to that {censored} you called music and I'd be embarassed to even call it my own.

[ryanstanley]

Originally posted by TheGZeus,OnFire I use effects when recording industrial and noise. Even then, it's minimal. "I think I'll put a little compression on this sample line and reverb this vocal track a bit." That's what we did for one song on the last Warm {Ph}ilters album. Most of it was just right to tape them mixed into WAVs(We need to get our Reel to reel fixed/replaced...anyone have an Ampex ATR-700). Sompression is a crutch. It's there to save you from someone with bad mic technique. That's what they were made for, that's what they should be used for. That and system protection. But then, most power amps have limiters built in. So That's it. Noise music, I'll process a little. Joke music? it's a parody, do everything the original band did but do it more. SaILo? he likes to take our worst songs and make them worse with dumb effects like reverse reverb and 'brainwave synchronizer.' Other than that. Nope. No effects. Virtually no EQ(sometimes you didn't mic it quite right and a tiny tweak is needed), NO compression. Good lord, how low are you tuning your drums? it shouldn't be moving that much! You can't play what you want to, so you have a machine do it. You said it, dude. You can't get the sound you want with the skill you have. Oh, wait. Here's a novel idea: PLAY MORE SOFTLY UNTIL YOU GO INTO YOUR RETARDO SPEED DEMON {censored}! The they'll be the same volume. Oh wait, raw energy... You can't control-er compromise how you hit the kick. Raw energy....yeah, 120 volts out of the wall and converted into 1s and 0s. The only effect I use on my guitar is an EHX graphic fuzz, the trem in the amp, the reverb in the amp, and the gain channel on it. Bass, I use either the distortion on my preamp or the same graphic fuzz(to retain dynamics). For fun at home I have a compressor/gate and gated reverb on my bass rack. I use it to get Public Enemy sample sounds. It works surprisingly well. It also can sound like a Super Nintendo(not my words, even). Drums, sadly we use a machine for most things that use drums now. However, when I'm involved in the programming, I intentionally vary the sample volumes and tone to match how I'd want the dynamics. Hell, I don't even pan very much. I like a very 'live' sound. never even used a gate. Since the first Warm [Ph]{F}ilters record, and that was an attempt to restore a very decayed tape. uneducated attempt on very little sleep. SO i'm standing on two legs, you're standing on laziness and a sampler.

 

 

fantastic post

 

and by the way, i do a lot of drum programming myself and have the same philosophy.. hold on ill try and find a sample of something i do-- id like to hear what you think! based on this thread, it seems like you really have a good ear

[TheGZeus,OnFire]

Originally posted by ryanstanley you obviously missed the point

Obviously, since That's exactly waht he's doing.

[Dark Slide]

Originally posted by TheGZeus,OnFire Obviously, since That's exactly waht he's doing.

 

 

I'm calling you an exactly what you called me out on. Yet you don't seem to have any defense. You make up excuses about how long the song was, or how many knobs there were while ignoring the fact that you {censored}ing suck to bad to pull it off like someone with skill could. Apparently that would be why you want to attack me, your extreme lack of skill compared to my... not.

[ryanstanley]

Originally posted by Dark Slide Dude. It doesn't matter. You can talk all you want, but everyone here knows you use effects to change the sound. Be it distortion on the guitar, compression, or anything else. You're a {censored}ing hypocrite. You can't keep up with how fast {censored} is going. WELL SLOW IT DOWN UNTIL YOU HAVE THE SKILL TO DO SO! {censored}ing lamer... I listened to that {censored} you called music and I'd be embarassed to even call it my own.

 

 

man, you're a {censored}ing idiot

 

up til now i just disagreed with you.... now i realize why!

[Dark Slide]

Originally posted by ryanstanley man, you're a {censored}ing idiot up til now i just disagreed with you.... now i realize why!

 

 

Oh I can tell you why... because you're as big of a {censored}ing moron as he is.

[ryanstanley]

Originally posted by Dark Slide I'm calling you an exactly what you called me out on. Yet you don't seem to have any defense. You make up excuses about how long the song was, or how many knobs there were while ignoring the fact that you {censored}ing suck to bad to pull it off like someone with skill could. Apparently that would be why you want to attack me, your extreme lack of skill compared to my... not.

 

 

he's not defending because at this point it's pointless. you missed the point so damn much there's just no reason to argue, because you're too stupid to hear what we're saying. so {censored} it

[TheGZeus,OnFire]

Originally posted by ryanstanley fantastic post and by the way, i do a lot of drum programming myself and have the same philosophy.. hold on ill try and find a sample of something i do-- id like to hear what you think! based on this thread, it seems like you really have a good ear

It's something i pride myself on(andhaving a past ridden with self confidence and esteem problems, I have to allow myself certain things I don't fake modesty on).

The problem:

I spend so much time getting things to SOUND good my playing suffers.

I have really good IDEAS for basslines, but my fingers have lost their touch.

I really just need to practice more, but I'm trying to get going in live sound right now AND get a japanese tutoring service started.

 

Kepp in mind: What I think sounds good probably sounds thin and airy to most people. i like vocals miced with Omnis and distant-miced(well, if you call 3 feet distant) drums and Steve Albini is my second favorite engineer(my first recorded 1.5 albums, Leo Kottke both of them. 12 string Blues, and 6&12 string guitar. Great guy, I'm gettign drunk with his son on the 4th.

Also a great guy. Mike Justen. Oh, if you like fingerstyle guitar, watch for a re-release of 12 String Blues in the next couple years. It's worth the wait, it'll be on vinyl and CD with bonuds tracks on the CD.

[Dark Slide]

Originally posted by TheGZeus,OnFire It's something i pride myself on(andhaving a past ridden with self confidence and esteem problems, I have to allow myself certain things I don't fake modesty on). The problem: I spend so much time getting things to SOUND good my playing suffers.

 

 

Dude, it doesn't just suffer... it pretty much self implodes. You suck.

 

Now answer my questions {censored}, or do you just not have any answer and are going to sissy out on me.

 

Whys it alright for you to use sampled sound and effects in your music, but when someone else does it it's suddenly not fair.

 

I'll tell you why you use a drum machine... you don't have the talent to do it yourself.

 

I'm suprise you find the talent to keep breathing and I am actually worried that I may loose some myself just due to osmosis.

[TheGZeus,OnFire]

Originally posted by Dark Slide I'm calling you an exactly what you called me out on. Yet you don't seem to have any defense. You make up excuses about how long the song was, or how many knobs there were while ignoring the fact that you {censored}ing suck to bad to pull it off like someone with skill could. Apparently that would be why you want to attack me, your extreme lack of skill compared to my... not.

The 15 knobs etc comment was a reference to the style of music that band is often times. Sometimes it's me an an acoustic guitar. SOmetimes it's a synth and a reverb pedal. Sometimes it's two people eating fruit under a mic. The point was it's not left up to machines, unlike your drumming. it's alot of effort, alot of dynamics, and alot of silent communication.

it's avante garde to the extreme.

 

I'm not defending the compression.

I'm explaining it.

I got lazy and didn't watch the levels. the source material was deleted.

In the editing process, i notices MASSIVE level inconsistancies.

I said "{censored} ME..." and I reluctantly used the compressor.

 

I {censored}ed up, and learned from it. I'll never do it again.

 

THAT was my point. Sorry i wasn't clear before. I have a little difficulty with theory of mind sometimes.

[ryanstanley]

Originally posted by TheGZeus,OnFire It's something i pride myself on(andhaving a past ridden with self confidence and esteem problems, I have to allow myself certain things I don't fake modesty on). The problem: I spend so much time getting things to SOUND good my playing suffers. I have really good IDEAS for basslines, but my fingers have lost their touch. I really just need to practice more, but I'm trying to get going in live sound right now AND get a japanese tutoring service started. Kepp in mind: What I think sounds good probably sounds thin and airy to most people. i like vocals miced with Omnis and distant-miced(well, if you call 3 feet distant) drums and Steve Albini is my second favorite engineer(my first recorded 1.5 albums, Leo Kottke both of them. 12 string Blues, and 6&12 string guitar. Great guy, I'm gettign drunk with his son on the 4th. Also a great guy. Mike Justen. Oh, if you like fingerstyle guitar, watch for a re-release of 12 String Blues in the next couple years. It's worth the wait, it'll be on vinyl and CD with bonuds tracks on the CD.

 

 

it's absolutely amazing how much we have in common

 

here's what i have to say to that post: me too!

 

haha! wow:

 

1. ok, i have had lots of self-confidence issues as well.

 

2. "I spend so much time getting things to SOUND good my playing suffers. I have really good IDEAS for basslines, but my fingers have lost their touch. I really just need to practice more".....this is exactly the same way I am.. which is exactly why i sometimes write my basslines in Reason then transfer it to the guitar (but only every once in awhile.. it's kinda against my morals.. it will sound much more natural when written on the instrument that plays it)

 

3. "What I think sounds good probably sounds thin and airy to most people. i like vocals miced with Omnis and distant-miced(well, if you call 3 feet distant) drums".... once again, im exactly the same way.

 

 

 

have you heard Volta Do Mar? you'd loovve that recording. i bet you'd dig the music too

[ryanstanley]

Originally posted by Dark Slide Dude, it doesn't just suffer... it pretty much self implodes. You suck. Now answer my questions {censored}, or do you just not have any answer and are going to sissy out on me. Whys it alright for you to use sampled sound and effects in your music, but when someone else does it it's suddenly not fair. I'll tell you why you use a drum machine... you don't have the talent to do it yourself. I'm suprise you find the talent to keep breathing and I am actually worried that I may loose some myself just due to osmosis.

 

 

once again, concentrating entirely on technical ability

 

when will you realize how little that has to do with musical talent?

[Dark Slide]

Originally posted by TheGZeus,OnFire The 15 knobs etc comment was a reference to the style of music that band is often times. Sometimes it's me an an acoustic guitar. SOmetimes it's a synth and a reverb pedal. Sometimes it's two people eating fruit under a mic. The point was it's not left up to machines, unlike your drumming. it's alot of effort, alot of dynamics, and alot of silent communication. it's avante garde to the extreme. I'm not defending the compression. I'm explaining it. I got lazy and didn't watch the levels. the source material was deleted. In the editing process, i notices MASSIVE level inconsistancies. I said "{censored} ME..." and I reluctantly used the compressor. I {censored}ed up, and learned from it. I'll never do it again. THAT was my point. Sorry i wasn't clear before. I have a little difficulty with theory of mind sometimes.

 

 

I don't give a {censored} why you used it. You used it. Onl top of using it, I don't see you attacking every bassplayer on here for using EQ or compression... or any other effects for that matter. You just decided you had to run your mouth on this bit, huh?

 

And I could give a {censored} about the 15 knobs. I have more than 15 pieces on my kit and I am trying to play them all with 4 different limbs... so {censored} ME if I can't be certain that my feet are always going to be even. At least I admit it... you try to talk your way out it it like a {censored}.

[Dark Slide]

Originally posted by ryanstanley once again, concentrating entirely on technical ability when will you realize how little that has to do with musical talent?

 

 

That is EXACTLY what he is complaining about with the drums you {censored}ing moron. Do you read, or think?

 

He is saying the reason we need to use triggers is due to a technical inability of ours to play the music.

 

Buy a brain for christs sake.

[ryanstanley]

Originally posted by Dark Slide I don't give a {censored} why you used it. You used it. Onl top of using it, I don't see you attacking every bassplayer on here for using EQ or compression... or any other effects for that matter. You just decided you had to run your mouth on this bit, huh? And I could give a {censored} about the 15 knobs. I have more than 15 pieces on my kit and I am trying to play them all with 4 different limbs... so {censored} ME if I can't be certain that my feet are always going to be even. At least I admit it... you try to talk your way out it it like a {censored}.

 

 

like he said before, he was saying that "once it hits the air, it's recorded and left alone"

 

get it through your head

[TheGZeus,OnFire]

Originally posted by Dark Slide Dude. It doesn't matter. You can talk all you want, but everyone here knows you use effects to change the sound. Be it distortion on the guitar, compression, or anything else. You're a {censored}ing hypocrite. You can't keep up with how fast {censored} is going. WELL SLOW IT DOWN UNTIL YOU HAVE THE SKILL TO DO SO! {censored}ing lamer... I listened to that {censored} you called music and I'd be embarassed to even call it my own.

Did you just say 'lamer'?

What are you a 14 year old fat nerd in 1997?

 

In any case, if you mean SaILo, it's a joke. And I think it's hilarious. I DO do some interesting scale runs, but I leave key alot to make it more annoying. I like it. Lounge noise. Noise music to relax to.

Nothing else has a listen option.

So you're judging my playing based on a jokey noise band, and ignoring the fact that the guitar is clear as day deslite my dissonant chords and cranky playing?

You can hear every aweful note!

Know why? a good mic placed in the right place.

The vocals are... distorted at their peaks. We only recently starded using a carbon element mic for the louder parts. it has that midrangey honky jagged sound but without any limiting properties.

 

So. Still got somethin' to say?

 

Or are you gonna couter my calling you a poseur with another "oh yeah? well so are you!"

Because that's all you've done so far. Yo haven't disproven any of my points. All you've done is point the finger back at my and try to prove I do it to0.

Even though i have in the past(let's see...3 times? 5 times? Seven years of recording, it gets to be a blur) that doesn't make you less ofa poseur.

And I'm not defending the action.

 

I'm stating "Yes, i've done it."

That's like someone saying:

"Drugs are bad"

have YOu ever doen drugs!?

"Yes"

{censored} YOU! You're a HYPOCRITE!*shoots heroin*

 

Experience can teach. We can learn from mistakes.

Come back from the dark side(Oh GOD there was NO pun intended...blech).

[Dark Slide]

Originally posted by ryanstanley like he said before, he was saying that "once it hits the air, it's recorded and left alone" get it through your head

 

 

Uh, no. Did you read his post? Re did it, he {censored}ed it up, he fixed it.

[ryanstanley]

Originally posted by Dark Slide He is saying the reason we need to use triggers is due to a technical inability of ours to play the music.

 

 

no, he's not. technical ability has nothing to do with the ability to feel the music

[TheGZeus,OnFire]

Originally posted by Dark Slide That is EXACTLY what he is complaining about with the drums you {censored}ing moron. Do you read, or think? He is saying the reason we need to use triggers is due to a technical inability of ours to play the music. Buy a brain for christs sake.

Actually I said it's because you can't just use a thinner kcik and hit more softly when you're not blasting.

[ryanstanley]

Originally posted by Dark Slide Uh, no. Did you read his post? Re did it, he {censored}ed it up, he fixed it.

 

 

yeah. once. and it was against his ideals. him regretfully doing it once doesn't make his point invalid