OT: Running shoe recomendations

[JacieFB]

 

No offense, but this is some very outdated thinking. In fact, over the history of what are considered "modern" running shoes, injuries have gone up statistically. Look at what competitive marathon runners wear - they use what are known as "flats". Only a very moderate amount of padding in the forefoot, no "Air" or "Gel" or other such nonsense, and not much more padding in the heel. The greater the padding in the heel, the more likely you are to roll your ankle - you're more likely to rely on the padding for cushioning rather than controlling your landing, and so it's like landing on a mattress (unstable) instead of solid ground (stable). Look at what sprinters wear. Track spikes are basically slippers. And if you think modern tracks are where the cushioning is at, go run a mile barefoot on one. The majority of running injuries are caused by poor technique rather than poor footwear. I have more info if anyone wants it.

 

 

 

Post away. My Runner's World subscription ran out and I'm jonesing for some running science!

[Ender_rpm]

 

New Balance 992s. I like em because I'm heavy and have wide feet, and they hold up forever. Need new ones right now though Also need to use them for actual running again. I'm gettin chunky!!!

[Ender_rpm]

 

The majority of running injuries are caused by poor technique rather than poor footwear. I have more info if anyone wants it.

 

 

Yes please. I often end up with a sore patellar ligament, and the Army just gives me a couple days off and some ibuprofen.

[takeout]

Seems like there's some interest.

 

Everyone has been taking running for granted for decades - there's no "technique", you "just do it", etc. Any problems with injuries are just a matter of shoe technology, etc...

 

...except Man has been running for thousands of years. What did we do before Nikes?

 

There are a number of newer running methodologies out there, focused on working toward the same level of study that other athletic endeavors enjoy. There have been studies of the Tarahumara Indians, who run (and win) races of 50-100 miles in nothing more than huaraches made out of old tires. There's a whole cult of guys running marathons barefoot. The key, in all cases, is technique.

 

The particular technique I'm working on is The POSE Technique. It's evolved over the course of thirty years or so, designed by a Russian sports doctor who trained Soviet Olympians. There are other similar programs (like Chi Running, etc.), and I encourage anyone who's interested to look into multiple approaches.

 

The (very) basic tenets:

 

Don't land on your heel.

 

Modern running shoes have evolved to allow you to do this - it doesn't mean you should. You have tendons that run along the underside of your heel; abuse them and you start getting plantar fasciitis. Pretty easy to make the connection.

 

Running on the balls of your feet mean that you are using soft tissues for shock absorption (as nature intended) rather than joint materials. Soft tissues can be strengthened and rebuilt if necessary. Joints, on the other hand, need replacing. Look at the animal kingdom - almost all animals run on the balls (pads, etc.) of their feet.

 

Running in minimalist shoes makes your feet and ankles re-learn how to stabilize, rather than relying on a 1" pillow of EVA foam. I run miles and miles in Puma H-Streets, which are glorified track spikes without the spikes. I used to run in Nikes, adidas, etc. - never again.

 

Smaller, more frequent strides.

 

When you take big strides, your foot lands in front of your body. There's a huge amount of braking force that needs to be compensated for, which results in exaggerated movements for your legs to bear the shock. Lose focus once, and you may land with a straight leg and blow out your knee/hip/etc. These landings also stress your knee ligaments - have IT band problems (like I used to)? Stop doing this.

 

Also, big strides are inefficient. You're swinging your entire leg a greater distance than is necessary. Once you get the rhythm down, it's more like aikido - you "deflect" your body weight over the sopt where you've landed.

 

*****

 

I've grossly oversimplified here. A lot more reading and drilling is required, and I beg anyone reading this to:

 

1) stop running as-is, and

2) research before undertaking this.

 

It's saved my knees and lower back. Hopefully it'll help some of you too.

[toolbar]

Seems like there's some interest. snip

 

Not exactly the same thing, but I was taught similar techniques while in highschool a hunderd years ago. I've just started working out again after many years and I'm remembering things I was taught then. Like run on the balls of your feet, keep your elbows in when you lift weights, stretch before beginning strenous exercise. there is a sign in the gym - Form Is Everything.

 

so, what do you recommend?

[venturawest]

i'm a big fan of saucony.

[takeout]

Not exactly the same thing, but I was taught similar techniques while in highschool a hunderd years ago. I've just started working out again after many years and I'm remembering things I was taught then. Like run on the balls of your feet, keep your elbows in when you lift weights, stretch before beginning strenous exercise. there is a sign in the gym - Form Is Everything. so, what do you recommend?

Wise words.

 

Shoe-wise? Well, depends on how minimalist you want to get. Saucony Kilkenny is a good one, adidas AdiZero PR, Nike Katana... even more so are Puma H-Street. There are guys running in Vibram FiveFingers.

 

A good rule of thumb: look for a thickness ratio between the toe and heel that is as close to 1:1 as possible. If the heel is so stacked that it looks like a funny car from heel to toe, move on.

[Decker]

I found out a few years ago that New Balance shoes just seem to fit my feet, so now I don't bother to try on anything else. I'm just guessing, but I think that different shoe manufacturers use different shaped patterns for feet, so it might be more important to find a brand that uses a pattern similar to your own foot rather than focusing on different models. New Balance for me, maybe Nike or Asics or whatever for you.

[y-o-y]

 

...a bunch of interesting stuff...

 

 

I am and always have been a forefoot striker and I have never had plantar fasciitis or shin splints or any of the common leg/foot ailments must runners get over the years. My brother, also a forefoot striker has been plagued with stress fractures all his life. I think it is important to use the technique that works best for your body, and get the right shoe for the technique you employ.

[illidian]

 

...stretch before beginning strenous exercise...

 

 

That's a myth too.

 

Stretching prior to exercise has proven to be of little (

 

Many people stretch too hard and for too long, and end up hurting themselves.

 

The future of stretching is in movement. Stuff like arm rolls for all parts of your body.

 

 

 

takeout's subject matter is an interesting theory. I've heard it before, but am not too keen on it myself. Also, flats for marathoners? They're worn almost exclusively for races, though some coaches like their runners in them for strenuous workouts (tempos, intervals, repeats, etc.). Most marathoners use "trainers" (normal running shoes) for everyday use.

 

Just showing the other side, not looking for trouble.

[Apendecto]

 

Bunch of stuff I didn't know.

 

 

Holy {censored}. My cross coach told us to do the exact opposite. Long strides, heel-toe.

 

Thanks.

 

Yo.

[takeout]

 

I am and always have been a forefoot striker and I have never had plantar fasciitis or shin splints or any of the common leg/foot ailments must runners get over the years. My brother, also a forefoot striker has been plagued with stress fractures all his life. I think it is important to use the technique that works best for your body, and get the right shoe for the technique you employ.

It's not just forefoot striking, although that is a huge difference-maker. It's all the elements in the system - landing with your center of mass directly over your feet (not behind), forefoot strike, etc. I'd wager that your brother is doing something different.

 

Whereabouts are his fractures? Feet, shins?

[takeout]

Holy {censored}. My cross coach told us to do the exact opposite. Long strides, heel-toe. Thanks. Yo.

Like I said: you've only seen the Cliff's Notes. DON'T undertake a major overhaul of your technique based on my post. Read, read, read, watch videos, online, etc.

[illidian]

 

Holy {censored}. My cross coach told us to do the exact opposite. Long strides, heel-toe. Thanks. Yo.

 

 

I've always liked different runners having different strides. The body will find its best stride length on its own, don't mess with it. And personally, I like the mid-foot strike - it's a good balance between the heel and forefoot.

 

 

If you don't mind, what's your alma mater? Just curious, especially since you're location is Dexter MI which is a damn good program, one of the best in the country.

[y-o-y]

 

It's not just forefoot striking, although that is a huge difference-maker. It's all the elements in the system - landing with your center of mass directly over your feet (not behind), forefoot strike, etc. I'd wager that your brother is doing something different. Whereabouts are his fractures? Feet, shins?

 

 

His fractures were almost always in his shins. He was a very competitive middle distance running through HS and college. He had the whole biomechanical analysis done and has always worn orthotics to correct whatever it is that was wrong...seemed to help, but never really solved the problem entirely.

[illidian]

His fractures were almost always in his shins. He was a very competitive middle distance running through HS and college. He had the whole biomechanical analysis done and has always worn orthotics to correct whatever it is that was wrong...seemed to help, but never really solved the problem entirely.

 

Could be nothing to do at all with his form and everything to do with his training.

 

[y-o-y]

Could be nothing to do at all with his form and everything to do with his training.

 

yeah, well this was a long time ago...he has since dropped out of college and moved to kenya and i think the only time he runs now is when he is being chased by lions!

[Rippin' Robin]

Sorta offtopic, could anyone hint to a good starting schedule for someone who wants to take up on running?

[rcz]

i started walking 2 to 3 miles (3 to 5 km) when i weighed 280 pounds. as i lost weight, i continued to add in running, starting with as far as i could, then a quarter mile, then a half mile. i would intersperse half-mile runs in my total path such that i would run 1.5 to 2 miles of 3 to 4 total miles. then i started working on running more than walking. i have worked my way up running anywhere between 3.5 and 6.5 miles (about 5km to 10km). i don't feel like i've worked out if i'm not going at least 4 miles. i also weigh 195 pounds now, so that helps with running farther.

 

i guess the best way is to start walking and run as much as you can. keep pushing yourself -- not too hard, or you may get a stress injury -- and you can slowly work your way up to run as far as you want. once you get used to running, it's really easy to play with how far and how fast you go.

 

robb.

[Super_Donut_Man]

My new balances have held up for a long time, and I run quite a bit.

 

 

 

Pick a route drive it to measure distance. Start short distances (if you are out of shape) don't be afraid/emberrassed to take it slow, walk if need be. Make sure you pick times to run when its convenient, where you are least likely to be persuaded/tempted to not run. Stick to you schedule as strictly as possible.

 

As time goes on run longer distances, faster, whatever. Just try to keep your heart rate up for more than 30 min, a few-several times a week.

 

If at all possible, get a partner to go with you (but if they bail, still go). I find that when I run with friends, I can push myself farther, and usually stick to it.

 

There is no harm in using treadmills either.

 

When it comes to exercise, every little bit helps.

[Apendecto]

 

If you don't mind, what's your alma mater? Just curious, especially since you're location is Dexter MI which is a damn good program, one of the best in the country.

 

 

You're absolutely right. Those guys are good. I went to high school right next door in Chelsea MI. I was never all that good (~17 mins/5K) and the Dexter (and Saline) guys would notoriously have 5 guys in front of me.

 

Yo.

[toolbar]

 

That's a myth too. Stretching prior to exercise has proven to be of little ( Many people stretch too hard and for too long, and end up hurting themselves. The future of stretching is in movement. Stuff like arm rolls for all parts of your body.

 

 

Maybe I should have said warm up. I can't just start running. I do arm rolls, neck rolls, waist rolls, etc.

[dragon9666]

Anyone say Brooks shoes yet??

VERY nice and comfy.

http://www.brooksrunning.com/

[illidian]

 

You're absolutely right. Those guys are good. I went to high school right next door in Chelsea MI. I was never all that good (~17 mins/5K) and the Dexter (and Saline) guys would notoriously have 5 guys in front of me. Yo.

 

 

Seventeen minutes in a 5k is/was in the top (conservatively) 10% of all HS cross runners.

[John S. Shinal]

New Balance. The higher the number on the side, the more padding. They don't pay for ANY endorsements, the money goes into the shoes. Lastly, they make shoes in different widths. If you go to a GOOD sporting goods store, they'll have them in different widths, which makes for a much better fit.

 

New Balance also make them with varying RISE at the instep, which is important for people like me (novice runner with high instep & arches). The result has helped me develop better stride mechanics, and my wear is now pretty even with less supination.

 

A friend who runs avidly also tipped me to Smartwool brand socks - he's used them exclusively for about 2 yrs and runs 21-28 mi/week. I have to agree, they are fantastic, never a hotspot and my calluses are disappearing.