Beer in a Glass: Wow!

[psychepsilo]

Sorry I couldn't let this one go..

Good! Wouldn't be a conversation if you did.
(I'm gonna respond to the rest of this in a few minutes, but somehow I read the very last part first, and wanted to respond to it... first.)

Also are all the beers you drink bottle conditioned? There aren't too many breweries (One that I know of, which is Bridgeport) that actually bottle condition their beer because they like that "clear" filtered look. Dan

By no means are "all" the beers I drink bottle conditioned, but LOTS of them are... in fact I'd venture to say roughly half of them.

I don't in any way stick to American brews, or even "microbrews." In fact, microbrews are only a small percentage of the beers I do/have sampled (not on purpose or anything). The store we have here (Habersham Beverages in Savannah, GA) has an INCREDIBLE international selection. I drink a lot of Belgians (they tend to be my favorites, though lots of American brews rank very highly too), most of which are bottle-conditioned. We've got beers from Norway, Russia, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Germany (duh), England (double-duh), France, Latvia (who knew?), Finland, Brazil.... etc, etc, etc. If a country makes beer, Habersham carries at least something from there. They also work very hard at it... like I said earlier, they make a point of getting rare, hard-to-get, and limited edition beers like Haand Brewery of Norway. At any given time they have probably in excess of 400 different beers, and some come and go (not just the seasonals) so it's constantly changing.

I try something different every few days, if not more, and to summarize an answer to your question, yes... LOTS of them are bottle-conditioned. I'm going to be starting a cellar in the next few months, as soon as I can find one. (Anyone know where I can get a fridge that's just a fridge? A big, cool box with no freezer? The wine cellars that you can get for your house aren't big enough for beers.)


Also... and I guess this goes for anyone who's interested... since we have a far better selection here than most places have (I gather), if there's anything you wanna try, or have been dying to have again... I can probably find it and send you some.

[psychepsilo]

Gonna take this in little pieces.....

Tell me this..have you ever tried a beer with no hops? I have experimented and it has very little aroma on it's own. The amount/type/and schedule greatly affect the aroma...

I agree that hops are often a DOMINANT part of the aroma, when they're there. I also concede that you obviously know more than I do about some of the aspects OF hops and their aromas, etc... You brew. I don't. I know little of schedule.
As a cigarette smoker (are you too?) I also admit that since I can't smell as good as I'd like to, the more dominant hops definitely dominate in MY nose, because they're strong enough to smell even with bad sinuses.

However, (and this is why I ask if you smoke too) a lack of hops does not in any way mean a lack of aroma... it simply means a lack of HOPS in the aroma.
I'll give a few examples in the form of a couple of reviews of beers from Beer Advocate dotcom, edited to just the "smell/aroma" parts (and no, I haven't had a zero-hops beer):

Reviews of Old Rasputin Imperial Stout:
-"Smell: roasted grains, bit of chocolate."
-"Smell is overwhelmingly sweet chocolate. Amazing. There are also hints of coffee, caramel, and toffee, but they are a bit more subdued. There is ALSO a strong hop presence."

Reviews of Heavy Seas' Peg Leg Stout:
-"Smell: Roasted malt, faint coffee, pancakes with syrup, cut wood, must. Doesn't smell too sugary."
-"S - From far away, this smells like a smoky bourbon. Up close, the woody bourbon scent is complimented by some really nice bittersweet chocolate, chalk, yeasty chocolate bakery goodies (warm chocolate infused bagels), and toffee. This one is more focused on the chocolate and less on the coffee aspects of this style, and that works very much to my favor. Very nice!"

And Aventinus Weizen-Eisbock:
-"Aroma is all sweet bananas ... touch of pink bubblegum and cloves.
"
-"The smell is strong. Caramalized bananas, honey nut clusters, cereal, brown sugar, concentrated raisin juice (if there is such a thing), medicinal phenols."
-"Smell is of sweet caramel, and caramelised sauce, like Grand Marnier in cooking. Lots of orange. Amazingly strong. No hint of alcohol at all! Just sweet!

The alcohol hits in the taste, with some dryness through-out the palate. Sweet malt, candy sugar, hints of plum and sultanas. Burnt Raisin in the back of the palate."

Note I left the "taste" part in the last one, and it makes no mention of hops balancing anything out (though I agree on that one, and so does this review really... it's not "balanced," you taste the alcohol fully):

...although high ABV beers are aromatic on their own...but normally high ABV beers have a lot of hops as well to offset the alcoholic taste.

Next...

Sorry, I think you are off here. As far as I know, head retention is effected by the brewing process not the pour. The type of pour decides how large of a head, the brewing processes decide the consistency of the head. It's also not recommended really by anyone to produce any head other than what you want. It's purely personal preference.

OK, head retention MAY not be affected by the pour (though in SOME cases, particularly stouts, I've noticed that a thick, creamy head stays longer than a thin, bubbly one), but I know from personal experience and constant experimentation that one CAN affect the consistency of the head with the pour (again, particularly, but not exclusively, stouts). I can do it right now... pour 2 identical beers into 2 identical glasses, with the same size head... and pour one creamier, one more bubbly.

Also, while how MUCH head is obviously personal preference, Michael Jackson (not that one), universally recognized as the world's greatest beer expert (who also knew John Maier) stated that you should ALWAYS pour with one "to release the beers aromas."

And now on to personal preference.... I'm typing so much that I haven't yet gone and gotten my beer. I'm gonna try, for the second time ever, to make a good black and tan (but not with Guinness or Bass). Wish me luck. Back in a few.

I'm very much enjoying this, by the way.

[willsellout]

Gonna take this in little pieces..... I agree that hops are often a DOMINANT part of the aroma, when they're there. I also concede that you obviously know more than I do about some of the aspects OF hops and their aromas, etc... You brew. I don't. I know little of schedule. As a cigarette smoker (are you too?) I also admit that since I can't smell as good as I'd like to, the more dominant hops definitely dominate in MY nose, because they're strong enough to smell even with bad sinuses. However, (and this is why I ask if you smoke too) a lack of hops does not in any way mean a lack of aroma... it simply means a lack of HOPS in the aroma. I'll give a few examples in the form of a couple of reviews of beers from Beer Advocate dotcom, edited to just the "smell/aroma" parts (and no, I haven't had a zero-hops beer): Reviews of Old Rasputin Imperial Stout: - "Smell: roasted grains, bit of chocolate." - "Smell is overwhelmingly sweet chocolate. Amazing. There are also hints of coffee, caramel, and toffee, but they are a bit more subdued. There is ALSO a strong hop presence." Reviews of Heavy Seas' Peg Leg Stout: - "Smell: Roasted malt, faint coffee, pancakes with syrup, cut wood, must. Doesn't smell too sugary." - "S - From far away, this smells like a smoky bourbon. Up close, the woody bourbon scent is complimented by some really nice bittersweet chocolate, chalk, yeasty chocolate bakery goodies (warm chocolate infused bagels), and toffee. This one is more focused on the chocolate and less on the coffee aspects of this style, and that works very much to my favor. Very nice! " And Aventinus Weizen-Eisbock: -"Aroma is all sweet bananas ... touch of pink bubblegum and cloves. " - "The smell is strong. Caramalized bananas, honey nut clusters, cereal, brown sugar, concentrated raisin juice (if there is such a thing), medicinal phenols." - "Smell is of sweet caramel, and caramelised sauce, like Grand Marnier in cooking. Lots of orange. Amazingly strong. No hint of alcohol at all! Just sweet! The alcohol hits in the taste, with some dryness through-out the palate. Sweet malt, candy sugar, hints of plum and sultanas. Burnt Raisin in the back of the palate." Note I left the "taste" part in the last one, and it makes no mention of hops balancing anything out (though I agree on that one, and so does this review really... it's not "balanced," you taste the alcohol fully): Next... OK, head retention MAY not be affected by the pour (though in SOME cases, particularly stouts, I've noticed that a thick, creamy head stays longer than a thin, bubbly one), but I know from personal experience and constant experimentation that one CAN affect the consistency of the head with the pour (again, particularly, but not exclusively, stouts). I can do it right now... pour 2 identical beers into 2 identical glasses, with the same size head... and pour one creamier, one more bubbly. Also, while how MUCH head is obviously personal preference, Michael Jackson (not that one), universally recognized as the world's greatest beer expert (who also knew John Maier) stated that you should ALWAYS pour with one "to release the beers aromas." And now on to personal preference.... I'm typing so much that I haven't yet gone and gotten my beer. I'm gonna try, for the second time ever, to make a good black and tan (but not with Guinness or Bass). Wish me luck. Back in a few. I'm very much enjoying this, by the way.

Good points...I could be way off on my theories...and that's what they are..just my views based on my experiences and things I've read. You definitely drink beers I don't have access to...sounds like a lot of good ones as well. In the PNW it's surprising what little amount of micro's are available statewide. I do get to try some very good beers but none of them are readily available, which sucks. And I definitely don't claim to know anymore than anyone else when it comes to beer...there is just way too many beers and too much information and science involved in making them for me to really grasp. It's nice to talk beer though...I'm actually in Newport tonight and will be heading over to the Rogue brewery (currently 100 yards west of my hotel:D) to sample some of their tasty beverages:thu: and stumble back home later on.


Dan


Dan

[groutt]

I had a Deschutes Jubel Ale in a pint glass last night. Yum...

Mmmm... I really like their Obsidian Stout and really really like the Seasonal Brown. Jubel Ale it is then.

[psychepsilo]

WOW.... cool!

Wish I was there... I haven't tried a Rogue yet that I didn't like a lot.
Their Brutal Bitter is great! And Monk Madness is awesome, easily as good as the Belgian Trappist-styles that it's paying homage to, though unfortunately I've only ever found one bottle of it.


In case you missed my offer, I'll gladly send folks some good beer if they're willing to take the chance on the shipping.

[willsellout]

WOW.... cool! Wish I was there... I haven't tried a Rogue yet that I didn't like a lot. Their Brutal Bitter is great! And Monk Madness is awesome, easily as good as the Belgian Trappist-styles that it's paying homage to, though unfortunately I've only ever found one bottle of it. In case you missed my offer, I'll gladly send folks some good beer if they're willing to take the chance on the shipping.

 

 

Ive actually been drinking a lot of my Apfelwein ( applejuice fermented with corn sugar and wine yeast) as well as regular wine more than beer. I go through stages with my booze. It will be beer for a few months and then wine for a few. I was really into IPA's this past summer and tried every single IPA I could get my hands on. I used all that knowledge to brew possibly the greatest IPA I've ever tasted. But I plan on drinking the Rogue "Brewer" tonight if they have it..otherwise it's the dry hop red or Santa's private reserve. I'm a hop fan and all of them definitely deliver, especially the Brewer which is about 9% ABV and although I can't remember the exact number it hovers around 120 IBU's. It's also a dark..looks like a stout, tastes like a roasted IPA..very similar to Stone's 11th anniversary ale.

 

I don't drink too many Belgian styles. The last Belgian I had was Allagash brewery's Trippel and their Belgian White. Damn fine brewery, if you haven't tried them...definitely check em out:thu:

 

 

Dan

[catphish]

In case you missed my offer, I'll gladly send folks some good beer if they're willing to take the chance on the shipping.

 

 

Such as?

[catphish]

I was at Goose Island last week, and definitely looking forward to it, but they didn't have it.

lame. I'm not a fan of the goose Island bars here at all.

[psychepsilo]

Damn... I suck at making Black and Tans.

Anyone know a little more about the science (gravities and whatnot) behind the thing? I've been wanting to come up with different layered blends of beers... besides the "typical" Bass and Guinness. This one I just made (or didn't, really) is Hobgoblin Ale and Peg Leg Imperial Stout. The taste is fantastic, but the layering is non-existent.

I poured very slowly and patiently, and could even see at the beginning that at least the bottom of the glass was staying Hobgoblin, but by the time it was finished it was just completely blended. I'm wondering if ("pretty sure that," really) it has to do with the gravities of the beers or if I'm doing it wrong. I haven't done it much, so the latter is very possible.

(I guess I could/should learn to make them with Bass and Guinness first to get the technique down with something I know works... and try from there.)

[psychepsilo]

Such as?

Well.... go back and read the original offer on page 4.


(Gotta go make dinner now.)

[Roger in the sky]

By no means are "all" the beers I drink bottle conditioned, but LOTS of them are... in fact I'd venture to say roughly half of them.

i bottle conditioned

[lefchr]

My personal favorite

[bpocall]

lame. I'm not a fan of the goose Island bars here at all.

 

 

No doubt. They had a pretty good seasonal IPA on tap though. Still, they are pretty effin weak.

[A*X*7]

I prefer Wine

[psychepsilo]

Hey willsellout....

How was the trip to Rogue? Have a good night?

What did you think of the Santa's Reserve? Strangely... our landlords stopped by a couple of days before Christmas and gave us a sixer of that (first time a landlord has ever done something like that for me... it was really cool!), and we thought it was fantastic!

[willsellout]

Hey willsellout.... How was the trip to Rogue? Have a good night? What did you think of the Santa's Reserve? Strangely... our landlords stopped by a couple of days before Christmas and gave us a sixer of that (first time a landlord has ever done something like that for me... it was really cool!), and we thought it was fantastic!

 

 

I had a good night. Had a good meal and three of their greatest beers IMO; The Shakespear stout, Brewer, and the Youngers Special Bitter.

 

The Santas is good this year..really hoppy as opposed to last years more roasted amber-ish style. I think they used Chinook and Summit hops in last years SPR, two of my favorites..or it could have been just Chinook, I can't remember I ran out of it a couple months ago. I also got a chance to try their Imperial Porter, which was fantastic.

 

Did you read my last post on the Allagash stuff? If you like Belgians you will probably like those a lot.

 

Dan

[Thumper]

Shakespeare Stout is truly a thing of beauty...

Dan, have you made it to Siletz Brewing yet?

[willsellout]

Shakespeare Stout is truly a thing of beauty... Dan, have you made it to Siletz Brewing yet?

Nope..I will be soon though as I'm heading to Astoria at the end of the month I believe.

I have to say my favorite PNW brewery is Astoria brewing though..their Bitter Bitch I2PA is incredible.

Dan

[Thumper]

A friend brought some of this over last month. The banner on the neck says 'Bring some home for the wives.'

Gotta love Wasatch Brewing.

[Psilocybin]

Hamm's : America's classic premium beer. Born in the land of sky blue waters.

[psychepsilo]

...The Santas is good this year..really hoppy as opposed to last years more roasted amber-ish style. I think they used Chinook and Summit hops in last years SPR, two of my favorites..or it could have been just Chinook, I can't remember I ran out of it a couple months ago. I also got a chance to try their Imperial Porter, which was fantastic.

So... Rogue's one of those that makes their Christmas/Winter brews different every year... I hope next year's is as good, because this one was fan-tastic. We tried Sweetwater's Festive Ale last night. It was definitely a fine ale (a winter warmer) but was sweet for my taste. It was also a big pain in the ass to get into the wax-covered top.

Did you read my last post on the Allagash stuff? If you like Belgians you will probably like those a lot. Dan

Indeed I did. In fact, I'm drinking a Dubbel at this very instant (cheers). It's one of those I keep passing and "have been meaning to try" (unfortunately there's a lot of those... or... fortunately really), and on your recommendation I went ahead and picked one up.


I also remember you saying something about an IPA kick. I've been sort of on the same kick lately, started more or less by a local brewpup, Moon River, with their Swamp Fox IPA, which is actually my top favorite beer so far.
If you haven't tried it, Sweetwater's IPA is awesome too (an Atlanta brewer... their 420 Extra Pale ale is the most popular craft beer in the Southeast, the IPA is better IMO).

And speaking of hops I've got some Heavy Seas Loose Cannon Ale. It says 3 pounds of hops go into every barrel. MMMMMMMMmmmmmmm....

Happy Saturday, everybody.

[willsellout]

So... Rogue's one of those that makes their Christmas/Winter brews different every year... I hope next year's is as good, because this one was fan-tastic. We tried Sweetwater's Festive Ale last night. It was definitely a fine ale (a winter warmer) but was sweet for my taste. It was also a big pain in the ass to get into the wax-covered top. Indeed I did. In fact, I'm drinking a Dubbel at this very instant (cheers). It's one of those I keep passing and "have been meaning to try" (unfortunately there's a lot of those... or... fortunately really), and on your recommendation I went ahead and picked one up. I also remember you saying something about an IPA kick. I've been sort of on the same kick lately, started more or less by a local brewpup, Moon River, with their Swamp Fox IPA, which is actually my top favorite beer so far. If you haven't tried it, Sweetwater's IPA is awesome too (an Atlanta brewer... their 420 Extra Pale ale is the most popular craft beer in the Southeast, the IPA is better IMO). And speaking of hops I've got some Heavy Seas Loose Cannon Ale. It says 3 pounds of hops go into every barrel. MMMMMMMMmmmmmmm.... Happy Saturday, everybody.

Cool, yeah try them if you get a chance. yeah I went on an IPA binge last summer and that's all I drank for 4 straight months. I'm actually drinking Deschutes inversion IPA tonight with my jerk chicken. They have one of the better IPA's, along with Full Sail's IPA. My all time is Ruination IPA by Stone..it kicks ass.


Dan