Members romvert Posted April 4, 2009 Members Share Posted April 4, 2009 I'm 40 years old, Grandpa.:poke:When I said Zipping up, I in no way implied that the cords completely sealed off - of course a segment of it stays open, otherwise air wouldn't be able to pass through and vibrate it. And "zipping up" is the common term used these days to describe adduction when you are singing in full voice above the passaggio. "I'm a man! I'm 40!" LOL!...I don't know if you'd realize who I'm quoting, but it's hilarious.I'll let you worry and live with the trendy terms and looks down the throat, and I'll worry about feel and sensation, in practice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pmtrub Posted April 4, 2009 Members Share Posted April 4, 2009 "I'm a man! I'm 40!" LOL!...I don't know if you'd realize who I'm quoting, but it's hilarious.I'll let you worry and live with the trendy terms and looks down the throat, and I'll worry about feel and sensation, in practice... Hey Rom, what is he describing when he says "zipping up"? Is there an exercise that will demonstrate what this feels like, because "zipping up" is just confusing me. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Consume Posted April 4, 2009 Members Share Posted April 4, 2009 I've been studying voice for 8 years, and I'm not sure I'm familiar with the term "zipping up", but I may be familiar with the concept, so I'm a little confused. Can you describe an exercise that will show me if I already do what you are describing? When you sing in full voice (head voice) above the Passagio, your vocal cords begin to close off at one end, and as you go higher in pitch, the opening gets smaller and smaller as they begin to seal up moving towards the other end; and it looks like a zipper on a pair of pants being zipped up, hence the term "zipping up". Generally if you are singing above the Passagio range, your vocal cords are already "zipping up". What happens is you stretch them as far as you can, and then you will either zip up to go higher in full voice, or they will snap apart and you will flip into falsetto and have a "break". Those are basically the two options because you have stretched them as tight as they are going to go. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pmtrub Posted April 4, 2009 Members Share Posted April 4, 2009 When yousing in full voice (head voice) above the Passagio, your vocal cords beginto close off at one end, and as you go higher in pitch, the opening gets smaller and smaller as they begin to seal up moving towards the other end. And it looks like a zipper on a pair of pants being zipped up.Generally if you are singing above the Passagio range, your vocal cords are already "zipping up". What happens is you stretch them as far as you can, and then you will either zip up to go higher in ful voice, or they will snap apart and you will flip into falsetto and have a "break". Those are basically the two options because you have stretched them as tight as they are going to go.Ed Alright, so I can go up to a G#-A before my voice tends to want to break into falsetto. Sometimes I'll have a strange moment where I can nail higher notes without going into the falsetto. I'm a light baritone for what it's worth. My voice coach talks about smoothing the transition between lower register and upper register, because if you approach the passagio with too much load you'll over load when you pass through the break and it won't sound even. I'm just not sure if I have a good understanding of falsetto vs head voice, because when I sing love, I still pull in a bit of what I would call "head voice" in order to brighten my tone. Around Bb-C it adjusts and I start using more "head voice" to keep the color even as I go up. Thanks for the response, I know there are different approaches to singing, as well as what seems to be a non-definitive nomenclature amongst different teaching methods. I try to be open to what anyone has to offer, as it's all food for thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Consume Posted April 5, 2009 Members Share Posted April 5, 2009 Alright, so I can go up to a G#-A before my voice tends to want to break into falsetto. Sometimes I'll have a strange moment where I can nail higher notes without going into the falsetto. I'm a light baritone for what it's worth. My voice coach talks about smoothing the transition between lower register and upper register, because if you approach the passagio with too much load you'll over load when you pass through the break and it won't sound even. I'm just not sure if I have a good understanding of falsetto vs head voice, because when I sing love, I still pull in a bit of what I would call "head voice" in order to brighten my tone. Around Bb-C it adjusts and I start using more "head voice" to keep the color even as I go up. Thanks for the response, I know there are different approaches to singing, as well as what seems to be a non-definitive nomenclature amongst different teaching methods. I try to be open to what anyone has to offer, as it's all food for thought. They best way I found to strengthen that area, is to sing in falsetto and then "strengthen" it. By slowly adding more strength to the falsetto, you will cause the muscles to move from the falsetto position, to the zipping up position. Just start out on a very like EEE, and begin raising the volume - as you get louder, you will flip from falsetto into full voice. You can just slide up and down in Falsetto, across your Passaggio, and as you practice this, begin adding more and more volume to it (remember, Volume is NOT created by air, you want to use the least amout of air as possible) and as you gain the coordination and learn to master this new segment of your voice, you'll be able to sing up there in full voice. It used to always drive me nuts that Mickey Thomas from Jefferson Starship would he these incredible highs. He's got an amazing range. I started out as a bass, but now I sing Tenor. Listen to this. This was what initially got me wanting to be able to sing high as a kid. [YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE] Granted, it's not super high, but it's up there, and it's got body to it, and I never could figure out why he sounded like that, but my vocals were always thin and piercing sounding like King Diamond. Eventually, I learned the difference between falsetto and head voice, and began trying to learn to develop the head voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eth Posted April 5, 2009 Members Share Posted April 5, 2009 Borrowing the thread for discussing this type of vocal production: http://www.4shared.com/account/file/96860880/88bc0019/F-sharp_6_octave.html I want you to know it's not pretty. It lasts only for a split second, has a horrible vibrato on the last note and it IS quite strained, but in my defense I did record it 5 minutes prior to going to bed. What kind of register is this? It brings the same sensations as my lower-pitched head voice, and it doesn't feel like my falsetto at all (blowing out air in a whispy way instead of singing it from my abdomen). Note: The high F-sharp really isn't perfectly on pitch, it's a little bit low. But still, it's more of an F-sharp than an F-natural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blackeyed28 Posted April 6, 2009 Members Share Posted April 6, 2009 Quite often male singers are able to sing as high, using a mix of falsetto and chest voice, as with their pure falsetto. hmmm, ...now i'm confused. i didn't think falsetto mixed with anything. my understanding (and experience) is that falsetto is completely disconnected with chest voice. i dont know how you would blend the two, ...it's either chest or falsetto with a pretty obvious break in between. in my understanding (and experience), ...headvoice connects with chestvoice, ..and the 2 registers can be blended into what's known as the "the mix". that being said, i fully understand how to take a girly falsetto, ..and twang it such that it can sound like a rock scream (not girly at all). i dont believe this is mixing chest at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bajazz Posted April 6, 2009 Members Share Posted April 6, 2009 A good old exercise is the "messa di voce" or "transcending tone" as Vendera calls it. It's simply to take a note and sing it from volume 0 to 10 (and back) start in falsetto and end up in full voice at volume 10. You won't get volume 10 in falsetto, so you must transcend. If it is difficult, take it slower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members romvert Posted April 7, 2009 Members Share Posted April 7, 2009 hmmm, ...now i'm confused. i didn't think falsetto mixed with anything. my understanding (and experience) is that falsetto is completely disconnected with chest voice. i dont know how you would blend the two, ...it's either chest or falsetto with a pretty obvious break in between. in my understanding (and experience), ...headvoice connects with chestvoice, ..and the 2 registers can be blended into what's known as the "the mix".that being said, i fully understand how to take a girly falsetto, ..and twang it such that it can sound like a rock scream (not girly at all). i dont believe this is mixing chest at all. Hence the term "connected"; Head is connected, falsetto - is not. transition from chest to falsetto can be made smoothly, if there is attention to volume and focus. The bad (or good?) news is that they will have two distictly different characters and presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grace_slick Posted April 7, 2009 Members Share Posted April 7, 2009 Eth, are you a girl or a guy??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eth Posted April 7, 2009 Members Share Posted April 7, 2009 Eth, are you a girl or a guy??? I'm a guy, and I sing tenor in a choir. The alto range often feels more comfortable, as I have a pretty high tessitura (I think), about E3-F5. I can go down to Bb2 or A2, but I wouldn't want to go below E3-ish unless I really had to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LordBTY Posted April 7, 2009 Author Members Share Posted April 7, 2009 Gotta say, I'm pretty jealous of Eth.. It's like finding out a guy has a ten incher of something ---- TomMx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members romvert Posted April 9, 2009 Members Share Posted April 9, 2009 hmmm, ...now i'm confused. i didn't think falsetto mixed with anything. my understanding (and experience) is that falsetto is completely disconnected with chest voice. i dont know how you would blend the two, ...it's either chest or falsetto with a pretty obvious break in between. in my understanding (and experience), ...headvoice connects with chestvoice, ..and the 2 registers can be blended into what's known as the "the mix".that being said, i fully understand how to take a girly falsetto, ..and twang it such that it can sound like a rock scream (not girly at all). i dont believe this is mixing chest at all. Soul and funk singers do it all the time. Just listen to Brickhouse or Play That FM. another would be Crazy, by Gnarls Barkley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LordBTY Posted April 9, 2009 Author Members Share Posted April 9, 2009 hmmm, ...now i'm confused. i didn't think falsetto mixed with anything. my understanding (and experience) is that falsetto is completely disconnected with chest voice. i dont know how you would blend the two, ...it's either chest or falsetto with a pretty obvious break in between. in my understanding (and experience), ...headvoice connects with chestvoice, ..and the 2 registers can be blended into what's known as the "the mix".that being said, i fully understand how to take a girly falsetto, ..and twang it such that it can sound like a rock scream (not girly at all). i dont believe this is mixing chest at all. I just call this being zipped up tbh. When I'm so twanged/nasaly, I can keep going up to about E5 like that.... I've always associated it with Axl Rose. I tend to use it in my passagio between standard mixed voice and falsetto/head voice. I like to show off all my voices while singing: Chest voice from F#2 - 'natural' sounding mixed voice at C4 - mega nasaly twangy axl rose esque voice OR head voice at about A4 - falsetto in between there and F#5 I seem to have digressed a little... But yeah I thought mixed voice would be something that' resonates in between head and chest - something favouring a closed throat/high larynx..... In Bel Canto chest/head voice... the larynx is supposed to be lowered... I gotta be honest, I have no idea what's going on in the Axl Rose voice... I can do it... but I'm not sure if I'm blending falsetto and/or head voice... or chest voice.. or it's just zipped up voice... I think of it as a mixed voice with more twang.... When I move on from A4, I don't feel a significant amount of physical change... I get to E5.... and all i've does is moved the note... it doesn't FEEL like a register break :/ ---- TomMx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blackeyed28 Posted April 9, 2009 Members Share Posted April 9, 2009 Soul and funk singers do it all the time. Just listen to Brickhouse or Play That FM. another would be Crazy, by Gnarls Barkley. maybe so. in the examples you give, ...i hear a lot of chest voice with the flip into falsetto on certain parts. i dont really hear any blending/mixing, ...where you hear tones of both at the same time. but, maybe so. i just know when i flip into falsetto, ..it's all light and airy, ..and i couldn't begin to know how to blend chest with it. but, maybe that blend is exactly what axl rose and brian johnson do, ...i can't get those tones/sounds either. i can hit the notes in a high mix (or falsetto, which would sound gay), ..but can't get that brian/axl-esq tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members romvert Posted April 10, 2009 Members Share Posted April 10, 2009 maybe so. in the examples you give, ...i hear a lot of chest voice with the flip into falsetto on certain parts. i dont really hear any blending/mixing, ...where you hear tones of both at the same time. but, maybe so. i just know when i flip into falsetto, ..it's all light and airy, ..and i couldn't begin to know how to blend chest with it. but, maybe that blend is exactly what axl rose and brian johnson do, ...i can't get those tones/sounds either. i can hit the notes in a high mix (or falsetto, which would sound gay), ..but can't get that brian/axl-esq tone. No, sorry. I misunderstood you. I did mean blending whithin the melody, not register wise; falssetto and chest do not blend together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jvardon Posted May 27, 2009 Members Share Posted May 27, 2009 i disagree with ppl sayin that falsetto doesnt resonate anywer but the vocal chords.....i have quite a useful falsetto which resonates in my chest at the bottom notes in my head around the middle and near the top......the very top am not sure....i cant really feel it anymore.....but by then i'm more likely squeaking.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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