Does a bar band HAVE to have a direction?

[New Trail]

Can a band do a little of this, and a little of that, i.e. a little dance music, a little off the wall, a little "songs WE like" , a little obscure covers, and even maybe a little original and make it work in a bar situation? Would that cover all the bases and satisfy most of the people or would you make EVERYONE hate you? Can a band's direction be "No Direction?" OR, should a band pick a direction and THEN find a place that will accept that type of music? Or, would it be possible to maybe convert the bar to liking what kind of music you choose to play? But, if you choose to play jazz KNOWING that no clubs in your area feature jazz music, are you doing your band a disservice IF you want to play those clubs? Which comes first, type of music (or direction), or playing music that fits the kinds of places that are available for you to play?

[Janx]

That's a good question (and when anybody answers a question with that, know that they are now making up an answer on the spot).

 

I'm a big fan of economics. Supply and Demand. To be successful as a band, you must Supply what the consumer Demands.

 

Now you may find that supplying Jazz may stimulate demand for it (maybe these folks don't know they like Jazz). However, you'll find it easier to find customers if you Supply what you know is in Demand.

[vanlatte]

This topic has always interested me, and I have had some pretty good discussion about it here and elsewhere.

 

Usually the feedback I have gotten is along the lines of the importance of an "identity"; i.e. some way to identify a given band. The purist in us wants to scream "Don't label me, man!" but it's sor t of a double edged sword; as much as I dislike labels, f I wonder about an unknown (to me) band the first thing I want to know is "What kind of band are they"?

 

While I would love to be in a band that does a little bit of everything, I don't know how succesful it could be. Seems like it would be more of a musicians band than a band that is going to find a lot of gigs...YMMV of course.

[B Money]

my band does a pretty wide variety of music, but we organize our set lists very carefully so that it all flows smoothly. For example, we put all the mellower, acoustic-strummy type stuff in the first set when the crowd is still building, drinking, and not yet ready to dance.

Second set is where we pile on the danceable rock and 80's metal. We play a long set (1.5hrs) because this is prime time for our audience and we want to keep 'em dancing and partying as long as possible.

Third set we whip out the heavier material, 90's modern rock stuff. By this time of the night, most of the dancers have gone home, leaving the younger crowd that wants to hear Kid Rock, AC-DC, Puddddllle of MuDDDD, etc.etc,.

 

So by the end of the night we've played everything from Barry Manilow to Metallica, but it all flows from beginning to end.

[Beachbum]

When a bar band is pleasing the audience and gigging steady I think that's the right 'direction'. Peoples' tastes are fickle and hard to categorize so maybe variety is the key, a little of this and a little of that.

[Tweeker50]

 

Originally posted by New Trail ...Can a band's direction be "No Direction?" OR, should a band pick a direction and THEN find a place that will accept that type of music? Or, would it be possible to maybe convert the bar to liking what kind of music you choose to play?...

 

 

Originally posted by Janx ...I'm a big fan of economics. Supply and Demand. To be successful as a band, you must Supply what the consumer Demands....

 

I think the answer to this question depends on how much you want to work. Bands tend to form using one of two approaches(whether they know it or not):

1) Decide where/how often you want to play and build a songlist that will get the gigs.

2) Build a songlist based on likes/dislikes and find the rooms that like what you do.

Approach #1 is for bands that want to work. Approach #2 are for bands that usually work less than bands using approach #1.

[Lee Flier]

Well, it used to be that audiences were more tolerant of bands that played a mix of stuff, but nowadays, they aren't. That's just the reality of the moment.

 

I do know very successful cover bands that play a variety of stuff, but here's the key: they market themselves as being able to cover any number of bases but for any given gig, they only do one style. They can do a Motown/soul revue, a swing revue, country, blues, 60's, 70's or 80's, etc. but they know enough material that they can do a whole night within any of those genres.

 

They also have their playlists available on their web sites and in their press kits so that on any given night the venue owner or event promoter will know exactly what they're getting. And I suppose it goes without saying that they either never or very rarely do more obscure covers or originals. It's just about all big hits.

 

The band members enjoy it because they can work with the same people and play a variety of stuff so it's not the same thing all the time, but can still play to heavily "targetted and formatted" audiences and all the pay increases that go with it.

 

There are also bands that do essentially the same thing I just described but they actually have different band names for the different genres, even though it's the same people. This works reasonably well too although it seems like keeping the same name but offering different "services" works better, because they get some cross promotion e.g. one organizer says "I need a band that does 80's covers," and another says "We had a band for our corporate event doing Motown and they were excellent, and they can also do a whole 80's night," and hands over the press kits.

 

Obviously this approach requires knowing a LOT of material, being able to present it very, very well, and promoting it correctly. But it's the only way I've seen bands be able to get many gigs - most places simply do not want a band to have too much variety in the same night. Sometimes you can get away with some if it's done right, but in general, if you try that and venue owners see your playlist they say "we don't know what to bill you as."

 

Note that I don't LIKE any of the above; it's just the way it is.

[Lee Flier]

 

Originally posted by New Trail But, if you choose to play jazz KNOWING that no clubs in your area feature jazz music, are you doing your band a disservice IF you want to play those clubs? Which comes first, type of music (or direction), or playing music that fits the kinds of places that are available for you to play?

 

 

Well assuming you do have an actual direction as opposed to "no direction," you MIGHT be able to create a market for the kind of music you want to play, but all the band members just need to be aware that it's a risk and it will take a longer time to get established than a band that's playing it safe.

 

That said, I'm all for it if you want to be a jazz band and there are no jazz clubs. You just may be able to convince a bar owner that having "jazz night" once in awhile is just what his venue needs. Or find a market playing outdoor festivals and parks, corporate events etc.

 

That kind of thing might be very doable if you're good, and the reward would be something more than money IMO. You'd be helping expose audiences to a wider variety of music and maybe discover that they actually like it.

[Tweeker50]

 

Originally posted by Lee Flier Well, it used to be that audiences were more tolerant of bands that played a mix of stuff, but nowadays, they aren't. That's just the reality of the moment.

 

 

Exactly, but it's more than the moment - it ain't gonna change anytime soon. As a society of consumers, we've become demographically compliant. Radio has been "marketed" according to age and income for over 30 years and when we go out to hear music, we prefer to hear our demographic "slice" of tunes. It's now a self-fulfilling prophecy, where club owners can't afford to take a chance on a band that provides too much variety.

[Lee Flier]

Yeah exactly. I'm still somewhat optimistic that this will change, though. We have yet to really see the long term effect of Internet and satellite radio on audiences, and how much it might broaden their tastes as the first wave of listeners comes of age.

[cooterbrown]

 

Originally posted by Beachbum When a bar band is pleasing the audience and gigging steady I think that's the right 'direction'. Peoples' tastes are fickle and hard to categorize so maybe variety is the key, a little of this and a little of that.

 

 

Your parroted, obvious, and homogenous overgeneralizations are the reason nobody will ever take you seriously.

[cooterbrown]

 

Originally posted by New Trail Can a band do a little of this, and a little of that, i.e. a little dance music, a little off the wall, a little "songs WE like" , a little obscure covers, and even maybe a little original and make it work in a bar situation? Would that cover all the bases and satisfy most of the people or would you make EVERYONE hate you? Can a band's direction be "No Direction?" OR, should a band pick a direction and THEN find a place that will accept that type of music? Or, would it be possible to maybe convert the bar to liking what kind of music you choose to play? But, if you choose to play jazz KNOWING that no clubs in your area feature jazz music, are you doing your band a disservice IF you want to play those clubs? Which comes first, type of music (or direction), or playing music that fits the kinds of places that are available for you to play?

 

 

We'd like to play the first ten minutes of "Tarkus", "Heart of the Sunrise", "In the Meantime", and maybe some Primus, and an odd country cover, or two.

But we don't...none of that stuff fits into the dynamic of our show, and nobody in the audience wants to hear that stuff.

The bottom line is "do you want to make money?".

If so, you'll keep the audience happy.

[axe2 2001]

I think you do need an identity. But if your gonna be all over the map with song selection you need to be able to do them all justice. My band went thru this a while back. We learned alot of songs that, in my opinion, were not what we were about. People can see that. I mean we were a hard driving, Kiss, Judas priest, Deep Purple classic rock band and we pulled out a Garth Brooks song,(Low places) because we thought a bar crowd would like a good stomp. WRONG!! We did it OK but I felt like we were trying too hard to please an ever more fickle audience instead of just standing and delivering what we did best. Without getting all anylitical, I think you just have to play whats in your heart. People see that too.

[Marcus Dahl]

I've not had a problem with the variety deal. We do play little bit of everything, but we've stylized ourselves in a Rock-n-Roll vein. Being a thre piece you need to arrange things so they work with the smallernumber in the band. So we play blues, 50's, 60's, 70's, and early 80's rock. Consumers have billed us as a Southern Rock band, but I'd cal us a roadhouse band. We do one Skynard tune and one Marshall Tucker tune, and a couple of Top tunes. I hardly consider that Southern Rock, but hey if they relate, who am I to argue. We also take the aprouch of a melloow first set and build it up from there deal, but I do a lot of crowd reading and seeing what the mood of the room is. We don't go on a set list persay. Crowds change just like our weather here in middle Tennessee. We may or may not do all the same songs from night to night, and the won't be in the same order except for a few in the first set while I feel out the crowd. Diversifieing is good, but know who you are playing for. Go watch some of your local cover bands and watch what works and take notes.

[bassred]

Why not make your direction variety? I agree that at the moment people are looking more for 'themed' bands, they want to hire a classic rockband and the next night they want a modern rock band, but I'd venture to say you could market a full-on variety band and do pretty good (there are still afew here, but this scene is funny compared to other places.....)

[BlueStrat]

What I discovered is that it depends on where you are. I was in a road band for 3-1/2 years straight, playing 6 western states and 3 Canadian provinces. We did everything from country, country rock, southern rock, classic rock, blues, R&B, and a bit of hard rock/new wave. And some places loved us, and some hated us. We did well in Bend, Oregon, and played there like 13 times in 3 years. We did well in Whitefish, MT. But we bomberd in Bozeman, MT, and Coos Bay, OR. We did great in Calgary, Alberta, and Vancouver, BC, but nearly everywhere else in BC hated us, Edmonton they hated us, Medicine Hat liked us, Saskatchewan was hit and miss, but then again, it was Saskatechewan. Oddly enough, our own hometown hated us, and we actually got fired from a gig after one night of a six night run, the only time we ever did.

 

Now, you wouldn't think people would be that different from place to place, but for whatever reason, it seemed they were. We could never figure it out. It was maddening, and made for some really looooonnnnngggg weeks on the road, as we played some places for two weeks, six nights a week. in Cody, WY I smoked a carton of Pall Mall reds in 2-1/2 days. There just wasn't anyhing to do all day, and the bar was dead at night except for some redneck hecklers.

 

If I were to do a local cover band again, I'd start out doing two or three genres at most, and keep them kind of related: Roots rock/country/country rock, or blues/R&B/, or rock/classic rock/pop, whatever. And after you get established, start introducing different things to see what works and what doesn't. Trying to be all things to all people right out of the chute sounded like a good idea on paper, but in practice, it won't fly everywhere, and probably less now than it did 23 years ago.

[Fulham Fallout]

 

Originally posted by cooterbrown We'd like to play the first ten minutes of "Tarkus", "Heart of the Sunrise", "In the Meantime", and maybe some Primus, and an odd country cover, or two. But we don't...none of that stuff fits into the dynamic of our show, and nobody in the audience wants to hear that stuff. The bottom line is "do you want to make money?". If so, you'll keep the audience happy.

 

 

The 'do you want to make money' question is key. Personally, with my music I want to do what I like and enjoy, first and foremost. If some money comes my way, that's fine, but it's not the real reason for making music. I have a job that pays the bills, and outside of that the last thing I want is....another job. Now, I appreciate that with a bar band, you have to go down well to get appreciation, repeat bookings etc etc, but that's the same with ANY band in ANY type of music - you have to find a way to entertain while making sure that it's fulfilling for you. I think that audiences can tell when you're really into what you do and are prepared to go with you when you play the unexpected songs, alter covers to suit yourself, maybe even indulge yourselves a little. There's nothing more boring than a covers-by-numbers band churning out rote versions of stuff you've heard a million times.

 

So, to cut to the chase, I think you need a solid core as a band that allows people to understand what you're about and what, broadly, they can expect. That helps audiences and helps promoters. Obviously that solid core has to be music you love and can perform with masses of enthusiasm and fun. But around that, you could certainly throw in some surprises, some unlikely covers, some originals, some pastiches , some stuff from a different genre or whatever. As long as you do it with wit and style you'll be alright. Who knows what audiences want anyway? Aim to get the audience talking about you - 'hey have you seen that 60's covers band who do a version of Beyonce's Crazy In Love?'.

 

One last thing - avoid *novelty*. Be different, but not a joke.

[New Trail]

 

Originally posted by Fulham Fallout The 'do you want to make money' question is key. Personally, with my music I want to do what I like and enjoy, first and foremost. If some money comes my way, that's fine, but it's not the real reason for making music. I have a job that pays the bills, and outside of that the last thing I want is....another job. Now, I appreciate that with a bar band, you have to go down well to get appreciation, repeat bookings etc etc, but that's the same with ANY band in ANY type of music - you have to find a way to entertain while making sure that it's fulfilling for you. I think that audiences can tell when you're really into what you do and are prepared to go with you when you play the unexpected songs, alter covers to suit yourself, maybe even indulge yourselves a little. There's nothing more boring than a covers-by-numbers band churning out rote versions of stuff you've heard a million times. So, to cut to the chase, I think you need a solid core as a band that allows people to understand what you're about and what, broadly, they can expect. That helps audiences and helps promoters. Obviously that solid core has to be music you love and can perform with masses of enthusiasm and fun. But around that, you could certainly throw in some surprises, some unlikely covers, some originals, some pastiches , some stuff from a different genre or whatever. As long as you do it with wit and style you'll be alright. Who knows what audiences want anyway? Aim to get the audience talking about you - 'hey have you seen that 60's covers band who do a version of Beyonce's Crazy In Love?'. One last thing - avoid *novelty*. Be different, but not a joke.

 

 

Excellent! Thank you!

[mrcpro]

I had the most freedon to do whatever I wanted when I was doing piano bars 25 years ago. It sounds like a terribly restricted format, but it's not... I'd go all over the place... sometimes from Sinatra to Zepplen in the same song! But is it entertaining... it has to be entertaining or you don't work. This is true no matter what the format.

 

The bands I've been lately are of two types... classic rock and country, or country and classic rock. Gotta work...

[HuskerDude]

I think if you have a big enough collection of songs in your "arsenal" you can be directionless as a band. However, your gigs are probably going to have to fall into a format: 80s, classic rock, R&B, etc... If you have a lot of different stuff you can play, you can play more gigs. Play all the R&B stuff at weddings and corp events, play the hair metal at the 30something suburban bar, play the classic rock and country at the roadhouse bar, play the numetal stuff at the 20somethings bar. Have a wide enough variety of songs and you can get more gigs. The folks who book wil either like that you can do whatever they need (if you're good enough for them to want to book you a lot), or the one at the roadhouse bar probably doesnt talk to the guy who books wedding gigs, so it won't hurt you to be playing both.

'Course, I don't play in a cover band, so this all might be nonsense, but it makes sense to me.

[RupertB]

Generally speaking, bands that want to play the medium to large venues will do better with a defined musical direction. To guage whether or not this is true for your market, check the list of bands that play at the venues you play (or aspire to play). Do they all stick with a well-defined genre?

 

My situation is playing duo & trio gigs (acoustic/electric) at smaller bars, pubs, and restaurants that do a good bar business. We run from Monkees to Fuel to Allman Brothers to Natalie Merchant to Yes. We take lots of requests & usually enjoy enthusiastic audiences (and bar owners).

 

As with most of the full bands I've played with, we try to:

1) Play music we enjoy playing (a luxury not all markets will afford you).

2) Play to our musical strengths.

3) Play music that helps sell us.