Damn Drummers.

[rhat]

 

Originally posted by Muddslide This is not a joke or a bait, but speaking as a drummer, why is it you think there are like 50 guitarists and a dozen bass players for every drummer you can find to jam with? Is it the difficulty of the instrument and of hauling drums around? The expense? (I've bought many guitars that cost less than one decent ride cymbal.) The "low visibility" factor, ensuring the boys up front get all the play after the gig? Always wondered about this. The drummer-to-other-instrument-player ratio seems so out of wack.

 

 

 

I have found that pretty well all of the good drummers i have played with all came up through the same path ..... they were in the school band ,, learned the basics and then went on to take formal lessons on a full kit.

 

The path to being a good drummer at age 17 or 18 started out in a jr high music program. It also takes supportive parents. The cost ,, the noise ,, and the early start and keeping with the program are all factors in why there are not a ton of drummers. I can say i never really played with a bad drummer . The vast majority of them came up though a school band program. I can never think of any that had any of the strange issues i hear about on here..... Do they still have Jr high music programs at school? rat.

[randyjj]

Ya know, i've played w/ at least 4 different drummers & all you other drummers might wanna look away whan i say this, all of them act like they have you by the balls as soon as you start a band with them!!! Like they're part of some secret commodity legion that lets them have total control of everything your band does. I'd really like to know why this is. They're only members of the band, like everyone else! For some reason they act like they're more important than everyone else! Sorry if i've offended any drummers who this doesn't apply to, but this was a big reason why i walked away from the music scene. This is a big problem where i'm from

[Muddslide]

Believe it or not, I once replaced a drummer who was flaking out on practices and gigs with a Boss (or maybe Korg) drum machine that set me back $75. The band went on.

 

I am not in any way suggesting that a drum machine is adequate to replace a real drummer in most situations, but since that band was mainly a noise act, it worked out fine.

[rhat]

 

Originally posted by randyjj Ya know, i've played w/ at least 4 different drummers & all you other drummers might wanna look away whan i say this, all of them act like they have you by the balls as soon as you start a band with them!!! Like they're part of some secret commodity legion that lets them have total control of everything your band does. I'd really like to know why this is. They're only members of the band, like everyone else! For some reason they act like they're more important than everyone else! Sorry if i've offended any drummers who this doesn't apply to, but this was a big reason why i walked away from the music scene. This is a big problem where i'm from

 

 

 

Great drummers are hard to come by ,, but its been my experience that great drummers know their place in a band. They are really only sidemen, and totally worthless unless they have other instruments. Are you sure you are not just playing with people who own drum kits and not real drummers. An act can live without a drummer,,, a drummer cant live without an act,, even in the jungle ,, they aint {censored} without dancers. rat

[randyjj]

Ego is more of the problem here. A few people tell them how good they may be, & they start to think their {censored} doesn't stink.

[B000]

Originally posted by Actionsquid The upside is that once you have it together you can basically take your pick of bands... which is why there's a ton of people complaining about not being able to find drummers!

 

Yeah, yeah, we guitarists got the memo!!! Drummers are like hotties, I know: in demand, can name their price, and will leave you without having to give a reason once something better comes along. Grrrrrrr...

 

However, at least with hotties there's no real mystery as to HOW to attract them. Hit the gym, lose the gut, get your act together, be interesting, and look like you have some self-respect and confidence.

 

Drummers, however, leave me {censored}ing clueless. I can only assume that drummers are looking for a good, tight band that's busy, plays music they enjoy, encourages their creative input, is full of cool people but free of douchebags and primadonnas, and makes decent gig pay.

 

It's easy to tell when a drummer perceives that a band is falling short in any of those criteria, because that's when the no-shows, excuses, and general loss-of-interest bull{censored} start to happen. So, you bust ass behind the scenes to fix any problems, keep the act together, and stay busy... all for naught.

 

 

 

 

...so, I propose a new book: Attracting and Keeping Drummers for Dummies.

 

Any drummers care to weigh in on what should go in this book? What do you look for in bands? What causes you to keep and/or lose interest?

[BlueStrat]

Meh. Around here, good drummers are a dime a dozen. I know 4 that aren't working or only working part time.

 

Now good bass players, on the other hand...trying to get one of those is like trying to sign a pro athelete!

[randyjj]

Bass players are almost the same breed animal as drummers sometimes! If they don't have an ego the size of Asia, they're usually pretty screwed up mentally. I guess it depends on where you're from. Butler, PA. in the hizzy.

[rhat]

 

Originally posted by BlueStrat Meh. Around here, good drummers are a dime a dozen. I know 4 that aren't working or only working part time. Now good bass players, on the other hand...trying to get one of those is like trying to sign a pro athelete!

 

 

 

Why do you think that is strat? A good bass player is a must for a band .. why no good bass players. Its doesnt seem to be that hard of instrument to play well. I can see alot of bands stuffing the worst guitar player on bass ... but an average guitar player that can play lead should be able to play bass. Are guitar players too stuck on guitar to ever pick up a bass? Over wanking the bass line i think could be a problem for some lead players ,,, but i would think most people would get out of that habit pretty fast. rat

[BATCAT]

 

Originally posted by B000 Any drummers care to weigh in on what should go in this book? What do you look for in bands? What causes you to keep and/or lose interest?

 

 

I think what you're seeing is just another result of the numbers. There aren't that many drummers in the first place... there is a reasonable percentage that don't band-hop or lose interest...

 

...but if you're in a band looking for a drummer, naturally, you probably encounter more of the pool of drummers just kinda "floating around."

 

I don't think there's any easy answer. If you're in a band with good gigs, comprised of good guys, making good music, you'll likely eventually find the right guy/girl.

[KHAN]

 

Originally posted by rhat .. why no good bass players. Its doesnt seem to be that hard of instrument to play well.

 

 

I disagree totally with this statement.

 

Any instrument is difficult to "play well".

[rhat]

 

Originally posted by KHAN I disagree totally with this statement. Any instrument is difficult to "play well".

 

 

Thats a given ,,, I guess i dont view music as being that hard. I started out as a keyboard player ,, moved to guitar , learned lead. I can lay down a decent bass line thats exceptable for the stuff i want to play. Its not that hard of instrument to learn to play after you can play another instrument. I wanna learn to play blues harp ... i never messed with one. I dont invision having a hard time learning to play it. I got a buddy that is a drummer ,, he taught himself to play steel drum. He said it was easy after you figured out how the thing was layed out. music is pretty predictable. For a guy to switch from guitar which there are a bazillion players to bass shouldnt be that hard. you have to practice. rat

[SaltyDogg]

Dude,

Take 300 bucks and get a used drum machine... program some acceptable beats for your songs... just make sure you plan them out and rehearse them exactly.

 

Yeah is it Cheesy? Yup.

 

But at least you can make the gig. Or make the drumset "electro" and say you're experimenting with New-New-Wave type stuff.

 

FOR REAL!!

[bbrunskill]

 

Originally posted by BlueStrat Meh. Around here, good drummers are a dime a dozen. I know 4 that aren't working or only working part time. Now good bass players, on the other hand...trying to get one of those is like trying to sign a pro athelete!

 

 

I know buddy!!!

To be honest, almost every drummer I've ever played with has been reliable, had the best gear he could afford and had very good skills on the kit. Four of them have been songwriters too, who always have great musical ideas to bring to the table.

But I just can't find a good bassist, it seems impossible!

[BlueStrat]

 

Originally posted by rhat Why do you think that is strat? A good bass player is a must for a band .. why no good bass players. Its doesnt seem to be that hard of instrument to play well. I can see alot of bands stuffing the worst guitar player on bass ... but an average guitar player that can play lead should be able to play bass. Are guitar players too stuck on guitar to ever pick up a bass? Over wanking the bass line i think could be a problem for some lead players ,,, but i would think most people would get out of that habit pretty fast. rat

 

 

Well, my experience is that guitar player make the WORST bass players, as a rule. The best ones I have ever had were former drummers, followed by former keyboard players. I know when I play bass, I'm way too busy and don't hold down the pocket the way a good bass player will. I can if I think about it, but as soon as I think about something else, I lose it.

[Lee Flier]

I play guitar, have very good time, good sense of melody and all that. I can't play bass worth a damn. The composition of a good bassline is just different from what makes a good guitar part, and a lot of times the bassline runs counter to what the vocals are doing, which tends to confuse a lot of guitar players. Also the bass of course tends to follow the kick drum whereas I tend to play with the snare.

 

Plus a lot of guitar players just have too much of the urge to show off, to be great bass players, and sound like exactly what they are: guitar players playing bass.

 

Some people do a good job of it. It worked all right for Paul McCartney. But it's tougher to do really well than it seems, and especially tough if you sing too.

[guitarsjb]

Originally posted by Lee Flier I play guitar, have very good time, good sense of melody and all that. I can't play bass worth a damn. The composition of a good bassline is just different from what makes a good guitar part, and a lot of times the bassline runs counter to what the vocals are doing, which tends to confuse a lot of guitar players. Also the bass of course tends to follow the kick drum whereas I tend to play with the snare. Plus a lot of guitar players just have too much of the urge to show off, to be great bass players, and sound like exactly what they are: guitar players playing bass. Some people do a good job of it. It worked all right for Paul McCartney. But it's tougher to do really well than it seems, and especially tough if you sing too.

 

Great points. Our last 2 bass players were guitar players. It just didn't work. Couldn't (wouldn't?) hold the groove and be the foundation.

[rhat]

 

Originally posted by BlueStrat Well, my experience is that guitar player make the WORST bass players, as a rule. The best ones I have ever had were former drummers, followed by former keyboard players. I know when I play bass, I'm way too busy and don't hold down the pocket the way a good bass player will. I can if I think about it, but as soon as I think about something else, I lose it.

 

 

 

Ok i started out as a keyboard player ,,, maybe that explains why i dont find it so foreign. LOL,, yea you can get lost. I am at the point where i can do it without thinking about it, but i hear ya on the losing it lol I try to spend an hour or two a week playing bass to backtracks i have made .. I just drop out the bass line and sit in on the track.....rat

[BlueStrat]

Originally posted by rhat Ok i started out as a keyboard player ,,, maybe that explains why i dont find it so foreign. LOL,, yea you can get lost. I am at the point where i can do it without thinking about it, but i hear ya on the losing it lol I try to spend an hour or two a week playing bass to backtracks i have made .. I just drop out the bass line and sit in on the track.....rat

 

See, keyboard players are used to playing bass with their left hand. That's the edge you have.

[SunRaFan]

I guess I'd say I'm a pretty good bass player. I think people have been pretty spot on with some of the reasons for the lack of bass players. A couple other ones :

 

Bass requires more hand strength and stretching. It's a lot tougher for a beginner to get started on.

 

Bass players have to be on point and in the pocket the whole time. Even minor mistakes either cause trainwrecks or make the band sound awful. Singers and guitar players can get away with a little more sloppiness. Sometimes "sloppiness" is even good on those instruments. When I switched to playing guitar, my leads were awful until I realized I needed to break out of the pocket to make interesting things happen. A good singer can stretch their phrasing to make things interesting.

 

I know a lot of people say that the bass player really needs to follow the kick drum. I've never really approached things that way. I'm usually listening to the snare drum to hear where there's space in the music, and listening to the melody to figure out what points need to be supported by the bass line.

 

I'm with the kick drum most of the time for downbeats at the beginning of a phrase or a new chord. Other than that, if it's a busy kick part, I'm usually going to lay back and give it some space.