What's More Important?

[Jimi Ray Halen]

If you're not interested in hanging out with the people you play with, it sounds to me like there are problems that need to be addressed; if your band is a priority for you. I hang out with the guys on a regular basis and we make it a point to talk about any issues that there may be as sson as they come up. If everybody doesn't get along, it shows on stage. It's obvious. Part of being a good band mate is being a friend too, IMO.

For me it's not a matter of not wanting to, it's more a time issue.
Also keep in mind that right now I am p/t with music. So I have to maximize the time that I do have.
I'm married with 2 teens and I have a f/t job. Plus a house and all the joy that comes from that.
That being said, I always find time to prepare for gigs by practicing a couple/few hours per night.
One guy in my band has the same responsibilities that I do, only his kids are really young. And he has cancer.
The other guy (trio) is getting married in 2 months and just started a new job after finishing his PhD.
So we get along just fine. We just don't have a lot of time to hang out.
But in the end, you're never going to love everything about every person you play music with. I find that as long as they aren't total pricks you can deal with personality quirks and differences the same way you do at work. You find a way to deal with that person. Or you find another job.
The weekends that I'm free I try to spend time with my wife & kids. Or at least my wife and some old friends. I tell the guys in the band where we'll be which is usually seeing other bands and if they want to show up they're more than welcome.
But there is a such a thing as too much togetherness.
And life is a full-time job.

[NoVoX]

For me it's not a matter of not wanting to, it's more a time issue. Also keep in mind that right now I am p/t with music. So I have to maximize the time that I do have. I'm married with 2 teens and I have a f/t job. Plus a house and all the joy that comes from that. That being said, I always find time to prepare for gigs by practicing a couple/few hours per night. One guy in my band has the same responsibilities that I do, only his kids are really young. And he has cancer. The other guy (trio) is getting married in 2 months and just started a new job after finishing his PhD. So we get along just fine. We just don't have a lot of time to hang out. But in the end, you're never going to love everything about every person you play music with. I find that as long as they aren't total pricks you can deal with personality quirks and differences the same way you do at work. You find a way to deal with that person. Or you find another job. The weekends that I'm free I try to spend time with my wife & kids. Or at least my wife and some old friends. I tell the guys in the band where we'll be which is usually seeing other bands and if they want to show up they're more than welcome. But there is a such a thing as too much togetherness. And life is a full-time job.

WURD. It's truly all about your particular situation. It's difficult to answer any question where personal relationships are involved without being familiar with the context. That's life, take the info you have available and make the best possible desicion based on that info. Rinse. Repeat.

[wades_keys]

WURD. It's truly all about your particular situation. It's difficult to answer any question where personal relationships are involved without being familiar with the context. That's life, take the info you have available and make the best possible desicion based on that info. Rinse. Repeat.

Yup. I hung out and partied a lot when I was in my twenties - but was too busy busting ass in the factory to put myself through college to be in a band..

Now I'm divorced, two young kids, full time career in I.T.

Music is part-time though mostly due to other band members weekend schhedule.

Still, if it were up to me I'd gig every weekend!

[Chunkytele]

I sing good and play the guitar well. However I struggle to do both at the same time. It an awesome gift to be able to do both well at the same time. What is important is the ability to adapt and improve.

[pilotcp]

 

Who has time to "hang out"? And do what? Party? Time is precious. I like to get in, focus on what needs to be done, and leave. After a gig? I pack up, get paid and leave. By the time 3am rolls around on a Friday I've been up almost 24 hours straight. And the bar staff wants to leave asap anyway. This doesn't mean that I don't have people skills. My real job requires this in great amounts. What's more important than socializing with the band is getting out on breaks and talking to the people who are there to see you. I always make sure to do that because I sincerely appreciate them being there. I sincerely appreciate my bandmates too, but I show that by showing up prepared, sober, on time, and with a smile on my face, and a good attitude. This attitude is contagious. I used to socialize too much and my practice time suffered. I "socialized" so much that it became boring. Some musicians who I've played with were very shy. They were comfortable around the band but didn't mingle with the crowd. This comes off as stuck up to people who don't know them. So you learn your people skills talking to strangers, not people you already know.

 

i dunno. I still stand by what i said. I still think that personality has a lot to do with it. I will admit that things might be different for other people, but the OP asked what I thought was more important, so i answered...I think personality is big because it makes a lot of things go smoother. I mean, I am sure that after hammering away at it for a while you can fit a square peg into a round hole, but it works much better with a round peg.

or maybe it's just because I think that the actual gigs are a small part of a band's life. There is also practice, song selection, getting the gigs, making promo, etc that takes a lot of time too, and it doesn't really take a lot of guitar talent to do that. It takes people skills. Look at a lot of the popular bands on TV. I bet there are at least 500 people on the HC forums who are way better than the arctic monkeys or OKGO, but those guys knew who to talk to and how to talk to them to get "famous" (or at least on national TV)

[Jimi Ray Halen]

i dunno. I still stand by what i said. I still think that personality has a lot to do with it. I will admit that things might be different for other people, but the OP asked what I thought was more important, so i answered...I think personality is big because it makes a lot of things go smoother. I mean, I am sure that after hammering away at it for a while you can fit a square peg into a round hole, but it works much better with a round peg. or maybe it's just because I think that the actual gigs are a small part of a band's life. There is also practice, song selection, getting the gigs, making promo, etc that takes a lot of time too, and it doesn't really take a lot of guitar talent to do that. It takes people skills. Look at a lot of the popular bands on TV. I bet there are at least 500 people on the HC forums who are way better than the arctic monkeys or OKGO, but those guys knew who to talk to and how to talk to them to get "famous" (or at least on national TV)

Well, if you have a good enough personality to go out and talk to total strangers and do PR for the band than most likely you can get along with your bandmates.

And keep in mind that I am not looking to get signed. I just want to work locally in good cover bands. Silly maybe, but it makes me happy.

I have no problems getting along with people, don't need a lot of practice time, am making connections at every venue we play, and meeting as many musicians as possible.

I get gigs, have made promo packages, etc. And it is a p-i-t-a. But I do my share. If everybody does their fair share than everyone can still get their homework in.

But I really think that it's possible to find other people mature enough to divide things up equally, not have to call in a mediator for the song list, and not pull bone-headed moves or power plays.

I can retire in less than 3 years and plan on supplementing my income by playing in a band, doing fill-ins, solo acoustic stuff, and giving lessons. (Sure beats being a Walmart greeter) So I'm learning as many songs as I can and doing as may gigs as I can. I'm getting to the point that I can look at a song list, check off the ones I know, learn the ones I don't quickly, and go out and play without rehearsals. You have to have some skills to put yourself out there as a sub. And you can't be a dick or nobody will call you. You have to be able to get along with just about anybody - at least for a night. No prob.

But there is no such thing as being "too good" on your instrument. The more styles and songs you can play - the better. And you can fake things better too. If it comes to that.

Besides, what else do I have to do? Watch Matlock reruns?

[Flannery]

I have been following this thread with great interest, but have resisted the temptation to jump back in because I wanted to see where it was all going to end up.

The reason I started the thread was because of the situation in my band. The other three guys in the band are head and shoulders better at their instrument than me....this is without question. But...I feel very comfortable in this band because I fill a role to make the band complete.

Although I can play lead guitar, in this band I'm strictly rhythm. And I'm fine with that. Actually more than fine with that. I find learning leads in a cover band to be incredibly tedious, so this is a great situation for me. However the other guys in the band find this quite unusual. A guitar player who doesn't care if he plays leads? Lets just say they find the lack of friction on that issue refreshing.

The vocal aspect really helps me out too. I figured out early on that being barely an average lead singer will take you a long way in bands. And if you can harmonize (something I figured out much later) you pretty much have it made. I work harder on mmy vocals now than I do guitar playing and I don't see that changing any time soon.

I even play bass on a couple of songs a night that our singer can't sing and play at the same time. Although I'm definitely not a great bass player (it's much more than a guitar with two less strings...) our singer really appreciates getting to stretch out on a couple of songs that we wouldn't have been able to do otherwise.

So all these things add up to a large plus in my favor. The other guys in the band could have recruited another monster player, but instead chose to go with someone who can cover alot of bases and do it without any drama.

So in my case being a well rounded musician, with a professional attitude and work ethic, took me far further than having killer chops would have. And I guess I was just wondering (although I didn't really state it that clearly) which category each of you thinks you fall in. Chops? Well rounded? Both?

[wades_keys]

And I guess I was just wondering (although I didn't really state it that clearly) which category each of you thinks you fall in. Chops? Well rounded? Both?

 

 

Well rounded got me my current position.

 

I play rhythm guitar (some leads, bluesy stuff) and keys and have been working more on my background and even lead vocals.

 

On that note i find that playing (classic R&R) covers is not enough to build or even maintain chops to any level i would be proud of.

 

So I'm having to find practice time and methods and that will allow me to improve my chops independently of working on the songs we cover.

 

But then I find that my opinion of my playing tends to be pretty low overall - more so than most who hear me (they must not have heard that clam in the 3rd measure of the intro or whatever)

[B Money]

well rounded here. I sing lead and play rythme (sometimes lead) guitar. I actually got in this band years ago playing bass. Then I was just following the band leader, but over the years and through numerous personel changes I have become the band "leader". I enjoyed the band and didn't want it to die, so when our previous leader suffered a case of exhaustion and had to go to camp, I stepped in.

[Matter-Eater Lad]

The greatest, most successful bands of all time have drug addicts, members fighting, drama, egos...all of the stuff you hacks seem to think works against being successful.

[wades_keys]

The greatest, most successful bands of all time have drug addicts, members fighting, drama, egos...all of the stuff you hacks seem to think works against being successful.

 

 

Pretzel logic anyone?

 

It can as easily be said that these bands were succesful IN SPITE OF the above mentionned problems, no?

 

Or are you implying causality - i.e. The greatest, most successful bands of all times were successful BECAUSE of drug addicts, members fighting, drama, egos?

 

But hey, knock yourself out! Us "hacks" maybe prefer a little less drama and egos with our fun - if you can hire up all the egomaniacs and drug addicts into your outfit I'm sure a lot of us "hacks" will appreciate you for it!

 

Rawk on!

[ChordGirl]

Ahhh... The brutal truth comes out. There are many functioning, even successful cokeheads/potheads/alcoholics in society (not too many heroin addicts, though). Why should rock-n-roll be any different?

[Jimi Ray Halen]

Pretzel logic anyone? It can as easily be said that these bands were succesful IN SPITE OF the above mentionned problems, no? Or are you implying causality - i.e. The greatest, most successful bands of all times were successful BECAUSE of drug addicts, members fighting, drama, egos? But hey, knock yourself out! Us "hacks" maybe prefer a little less drama and egos with our fun - if you can hire up all the egomaniacs and drug addicts into your outfit I'm sure a lot of us "hacks" will appreciate you for it! Rawk on!

Whew, thanks for posting that. I was just about to become an egomiacal, violent, drug-addicted drama queen.

In answer to the OP's question, while I admire great singers, I never wanted to be one. Same with bass, drums, keys, etc.
Guitar is it for me. It gives me my greatest satisfaction.
But if that's all you do, you better be able to really play.
It's hard to be a very skilled lead/rhythm player if you're also singing lead all night. I've seen some guys do it, but mostly on national touring acts.
Like I said, I admire really good singers, especially ones who can play while singing.
But I can take some of the pressure off of the singer(s) by picking up all the guitar playing while they're singing. I can compliment their voice and it allows them to concentrate on what they do best.
And me too.
Because from what I've seen people who like live rock music respond the most to:
1 Vocals
2. Guitar
They respond to the drums and bass too, but almost subconsciously. It's the beat and the groove that gets them moving. But it's the guitar and vocals that are out front.

As far as "On that note i find that playing (classic R&R) covers is not enough to build or even maintain chops to any level i would be proud of." - well - I guess it all depends on what you're playing. That's where the real meat is as far as rock guitar playing goes. By going back and learning it properly this time around I'm almost ready to call myself a guitarist. I'm not talking ballparking. Any mope can do that. Like me. I wasn't proud of my skills when I did that either.
Tedious?
Not to me. I love it.
There seems to be a stigma attached to anyone who really tries to become a highly-skilled guitarist nowadays among musicians, guitarists in particular.
And some confusion between highly-skilled & shredder/wanker. I don't quite understand this mindset.
I'm not claiming to be anything but a local cover band guitar player who tries to entertain people with his guitar. I work hard at it and people are responding. Which makes me work even harder.
Now why in the world wouldn't you want a guitarist in a cover band (or any band) who really works at getting better and playing songs at a high level? Because he doesn't sing a half-assed version of Cocaine just to sing something?
I'm glad that people around here don't feel that way.
(rant over - safe to come out )

[NoVoX]

Here's where I'm at...

I am an alcoholic, egomaniacal, womanizing, drug abusing man-whore who can play the f*ck out of the guitar, sing even better, and write songs that would make your father cry. I'm damned good and I know it. I was born to be a rock star. Oh yeah, and I'm smarter than you. Yessss you too. If you just shut up and accept the fact that I'm the baddest muther trucker on the planet, then we'll get along just fine. If not, then you're probably gettin hammer-fisted. B*tch.

[wades_keys]

Here's where I'm at... I am an alcoholic, egomaniacal, womanizing, drug abusing man-whore who can play the f*ck out of the guitar, sing even better, and write songs that would make your father cry. I'm damned good and I know it. I was born to be a rock star. Oh yeah, and I'm smarter than you. Yessss you too. If you just shut up and accept the fact that I'm the baddest muther trucker on the planet, then we'll get along just fine. If not, then you're probably gettin hammer-fisted. B*tch.

Ha ha - you got it man, you got it bad.

Sounds like you're taking a page from the early days of the Who - ole Townshend had Jim Marshall make him 100 watt amp stacks so he wouldn't have to hear requests from the audience!

Kick ass.

[ChordGirl]

Here's where I'm at... I am an alcoholic, egomaniacal, womanizing, drug abusing man-whore who can play the f*ck out of the guitar, sing even better, and write songs that would make your father cry. I'm damned good and I know it. I was born to be a rock star. Oh yeah, and I'm smarter than you. Yessss you too. If you just shut up and accept the fact that I'm the baddest muther trucker on the planet, then we'll get along just fine. If not, then you're probably gettin hammer-fisted. B*tch.

Whatcha doin' Friday Nite, Baby?













:mad:

[NoVoX]

Whatcha doin' Friday Nite, Baby? :mad:

Bwah ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!

[HMKRich]

IMO, it depends on what your goals are. We're REALLY serious and we're trying to do this for a career. If this sounds like you, then you should make sure that whomever you choose to play with has a similar vision, as a musician, to yours. In a bandmate I want a soldier. Someone who is willing to make personal sacrifices in order to make the band better. I expect that person to be as passionate about what we're doing as I am and I expect them to act like it. A huge part of being a good musician is realizing your place in the band and embracing it.

 

 

This is exactly how I feel. My band isn't "REALLY serious and we're trying to do this for a career", and so I don't practise with the guys 5 times a week. but I DO want my bandmates to prefer each other, and the group as a whole, over themselves.

 

That doesn't mean that you have to be a martyr. Last month, our other guitar player missed a practise and 2 gigs for a family vacation. But this month, he made our frontman a (very) nice pedal board and let me borrow some gear.

 

Yes, I want my brothers to sacrifice for me and the band. But in addition to arranging parts or setting stuff up, sometimes my act of sacrifice is simply to have mercy towards my boys. The key is to have common goals, and prefer each other over yourself as often as possible.

[NoVoX]

Hey Rich, what's the name of your band? I'm in ATL too, maybe we can trade some shows, local knowledge, etc. AND....if you're not busy Friday night we're playing a show with a couple other ATLiens on the north side. Did that come off wrong....