Where do I need to improve? Samples to listen to...

[Phait]

Some context, I've been involved in music for about 6 years. I'm not a singer, but I've always wanted to. I'm working on an album where I want to include vocals, as I've written a lot of content. But my voice needs a lot of work. I feel skeptical of vocal exercises... I feel like you either have it, or you don't. Although everything I've been involved in over the years creatively, has taught me persistence does pay off. I feel like I have some potential, I just need to sing from the right place.

 

I feel comfortable getting on pitch (generally if not precisely) with some of my favorite songs (a lot from Soundgarden, Stone Temple Pilots, Alice In Chains, Depeche Mode, Ashes Divide, Dave Matthews Band, some Bruce Springsteen, Dead Can Dance...).

 

The problem I notice right away is probably I sing too much from throat. I also tend to have a bit of a stuffy voice - it's just how I am, although I attribute it to my left nostril not being able to breathe as fully as the right one. Maybe it's just cause I'm tall, somewhat deep voice - but not very.

 

I thought I'd post a couple samples of me singing the first verse to Depeche Mode's "The Love Thieves":

 

Alone:

http://www.tindeck.com/audio/my/akdf/the-love-thieves1_alone

 

Along:

http://www.tindeck.com/audio/my/gmwv/the-love-thieves1_along

 

Here is the original song in case one is not familiar with it. Singing starts at 00:50

 

CnA0ft6DMpM

[llerroms]

Not sure I agree with "you have it or you don't". Voice lessons would teach you to control your voice and sing from the diaphragm instead of from your neck. You can teach yourself, but it will take longer.

[Jersey Jack]

Sorry, can't access the files. The links go to a window that has buttons labeled Stream & Download. I tried Stream, but it simply opened another window with no sound and no player controls. I don't want to download the file (no offense), so I can't find anyway to hear what you've done. If you provide instructions or post the files to a more commonly used site, I'd love to take a listen.

[Phait]

Well, even if stream did work - it would temporarily download it to a cache folder on your computer. I'll try Supload.com later.

[Phait]

Ok see if these stream:

 

Alone

http://www.supload.com/music/The-Love-Thieves-alone-download-UEDS5BX99HEJ.html

 

Along

http://www.supload.com/music/The-Love-Thieves-along-download-9OSRHXZE4RSC.html

[SevenString]

Don't be skeptical of vocal exercises. I am big guy, who always had a naturally deep voice, more bass than baritone.

 

I worked for YEARS to push and push my range, and only got so far. It was really depressing to only be able to count on about an E or F# at the bottom end of the tenor range, with anything above that making me tired in no time.

 

Some voice lessons a few years ago worked like magic to start opening things up so that I can now sing in a tenor range, up to a B or C# without straining, and NOT by singing in falsetto.

 

When I say "easily", I mean that my upper range (up to that high B at least) is there 24/7, and nothing seems to effect my ability to use it. Not only that, but I can consistently sing hard rock or metal for HOURS at a time with no adverse effects.

 

Before voice lessons and regular exercises, the chances of me singing these songs was pretty much zero.

 

[YOUTUBE]GUUGhlWiv3Q[/YOUTUBE]

 

[YOUTUBE]8DzSIEPmBa0[/YOUTUBE]

 

[YOUTUBE]Pzy1oHy3UOc[/YOUTUBE]

 

 

Yeah, there are still other rock and metal singers can still sing much higher than I can (you should hear micwalt on this forum), but now my usable range is enough to make me VERY happy, considering where I used to be.

[Phait]

Ahh I've seen your videos before, I really enjoy them

 

I was reading another thread, it may also be about finding the right key for my voice to. I feel like I sing better if I sing in a higher key. I think my lower voice lends better for quiet singing. Wonder if there's an inbetween.

[Phait]

http://www.jaderavendesign.com/m/beside-me-lay.mp3

 

Here's an original I'm working on. Again, I want to redo the vocals, they're about the way I want to deliver them, but could have a bit more control.

[nAmzrTakin]

Hey dude I just listened to a bit of your first one.

 

You said you think you sing from the throat too much. I think the reverse might be true in your case. Your voice wavers a bit because (i think) you're putting out too much air at once. Try taking the deepest breath you can and sound the letter A starting from the fullest lungs you possibly can.

 

Breathe in AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA while breathing out. You need more beind your voice to project it.

[Phait]

I'll consider and try that. My first example isn't my best attempt though. I'd check the 2nd one, and this attempt at "Endless" by Dave Gahan http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM4uGD8w5BA

[Jersey Jack]

You said you think you sing from the throat too much. I think the reverse might be true in your case. Your voice wavers a bit because (i think) you're putting out too much air at once.

 

Yes, I agree with this. Your voice seems breathy. Try singing soft 'n' low on your voice. Breathiness is fine as an effect--a breathy phrase here and there can be wonderfully expressive--but as a singing style it doesn't work well because it tends to destabilize the voice.

 

You might also try raising the songs up a key or two.

 

Good potential here. With a few lessons you could sing very well!

[Phait]

That's the tough part, breaking out of that breathy area. It depends. Like, if I sing "Burden In My Hand" by Soundgarden, I can do it alright. But I can't sing every song in that register if I intend it to be lower (like my Beside Me Lay sample above). It's like my voice needs a hoist, it's struggling on it's own trying to do chin-ups

[Jersey Jack]

Try speaking the lyric. Seriously, begin with your speaking voice. Do this a few times, then speak it in pitch.

 

Then add breathiness to taste.

[Phait]

^ I tried that earlier - and I really like the idea. But, making it interesting is the trick! I think you're on to something though. Reminds me of speech-level-singing.

[Phait]

http://www.jaderavendesign.com/m/2.mp3

 

Here's a demo to judge, better singing or range choice, feels alright. Throat is a bit sore though. Double tracked the vox, they're not perfectly aligned, but you get the idea.

[GreenAsJade]

I don't know jack about singing, but I listened to The Love Theives, and it sounded to me like you were just way at the bottom of your range, struggling to be that low.

 

GaJ

[Phait]

--nm--

[AzraelsWings]

Not to rip-off GreenAsJade, but that sample is WAY low for your voice.

 

Not to rip-off SevenString, but try to fight that skepticism. Be skeptical of a $4000 vocal training system purporting to cure all your vocal ills and make you sound like Cornell in a day, sure. But, finding the right exercises and practicing them consistently can really expand your range, resonance, and volume.

[AzraelsWings]

Don't be skeptical of vocal exercises. I am big guy, who always had a naturally deep voice, more bass than baritone. I worked for YEARS to push and push my range, and only got so far. It was really depressing to only be able to count on about an E or F# at the bottom end of the tenor range, with anything above that making me tired in no time. Some voice lessons a few years ago worked like magic to start opening things up so that I can now sing in a tenor range, up to a B or C# without straining, and NOT by singing in falsetto. When I say "easily", I mean that my upper range (up to that high B at least) is there 24/7, and nothing seems to effect my ability to use it. Not only that, but I can consistently sing hard rock or metal for HOURS at a time with no adverse effects. Before voice lessons and regular exercises, the chances of me singing these songs was pretty much zero. Yeah, there are still other rock and metal singers can still sing much higher than I can (you should hear micwalt on this forum), but now my usable range is enough to make me VERY happy, considering where I used to be.

 

Seven, what part of your voice would you say you're singing in during those higher parts? You have that sort of upper range that I always associate with 80's metal—one that I've always heard described as a "pinched & focused head-voice" (or falsetto, depending on the person's definitions of the terms). What kind of exercises did you use to achieve that sort of range?

 

I'm just very curious, because it has that sort of brassy quality, it doesn't sound like I'd expect your chest voice to sound in that range, but doesn't have the flutey quality one associates with falsetto. BTW, the Kansas cover was sick.

[SevenString]

Seven, what part of your voice would you say you're singing in during those higher parts? You have that sort of upper range that I always associate with 80's metal—one that I've always heard described as a "pinched & focused head-voice" (or falsetto, depending on the person's definitions of the terms). What kind of exercises did you use to achieve that sort of range? I'm just very curious, because it has that sort of brassy quality, it doesn't sound like I'd expect your chest voice to sound in that range, but doesn't have the flutey quality one associates with falsetto. BTW, the Kansas cover was sick.

 

I believe what's going on is a combination of my head voice (which is very different than my falsetto) being supported by a bit of chest voice.

 

When I first discovered my head voice, it was light and airy, and would break the minute I tried to put any air pressure on it.

 

Then, after some coaching with "gug gug gug", "mum mum mum" and "witch's cackle" exercises, my head voice started getting stronger, but was unreliable and sounded a bit like Abe Simpson, with a very "reedy" sound.

 

But my coach got me to open that up with some follow up exercises with my tongue sticking out as far as possible and using an open "a" as in "at" sound.

 

Eventually, the break between my chest voice and head voice went away, and the upper part of my range stopped sounding like Abe Simpson or bad opera.

 

Let me add that a big part of it for me is placement. Once I started thinking about where the sound resonated, and deliberately placing that resonance more and more in my head and face for higher notes, it was easier for my vocal chords to do what they were supposed to do with less effort.

 

So the short answer is that as I get into my upper range, my head voice starts kicking in, but I still have some support from my chest voice to keep it thick (and loud). At this point, I could be doing a little bit of "zipping" as well.

 

I don't really "feel" anything in my throat when I sing, so it's hard to tell EXACTLY what's going on in there.

 

 

And I'm glad you enjoyed the Kansas tune. That was fun to record, especially laying down the harmonies.

[AzraelsWings]

Hmm...would you mind posting a clip of your falsetto and head voice side by side? Also, what is this "witch's cackle" exercise?

 

It's just made so difficult to discuss these things by the varied definitions of these terms. :/

[SevenString]

Hmm...would you mind posting a clip of your falsetto and head voice side by side? Also, what is this "witch's cackle" exercise? It's just made so difficult to discuss these things by the varied definitions of these terms. :/

 

No more videos until I'm over this nasty cold. Darned airline flights full of sick people!

 

 

As for the witch's cackle thing, you first start by finding that stereotypical witch's laugh. It's sort of like falsetto, but sharper and more nasal. If you can get that witch sound with a "ya ha haaaa", then you have the first part of the exercise.

 

The harder part involves finding a good strong note in that witch's cackle range, then starting on that note with a "heeee" sound, slowly slide down to the note an octave lower, smoothly changing to an "awww" sound as you go down. As you do this, smoothly transition to your chest voice without a break.

 

It's that last part that's really, really hard, and will take a LOT of practice, first at lower volumes, then louder and louder as you build up strength in the transition. It's all about control and avoiding a break in your voice as you go down to the lower note.

 

The witch's cackle part strengthens your upper registers, and the "heee-awww" exercise helps to build and strengthen the transition (passaggio) between your chest voice and your upper range.

 

 

But as I try to always say when I give tips, I'm not a voice teacher, and there's nothing like working with a real, live voice teacher to help with your specific issues. These exercises helped me with MY problems, but your voice might be different enough to need your own special blend of exercises.

 

Cheers.

[GordonFreeman]

I believe what's going on is a combination of my head voice (which is very different than my falsetto) being supported by a bit of chest voice. When I first discovered my head voice, it was light and airy, and would break the minute I tried to put any air pressure on it. Then, after some coaching with "gug gug gug", "mum mum mum" and "witch's cackle" exercises, my head voice started getting stronger, but was unreliable and sounded a bit like Abe Simpson, with a very "reedy" sound. But my coach got me to open that up with some follow up exercises with my tongue sticking out as far as possible and using an open "a" as in "at" sound. Eventually, the break between my chest voice and head voice went away, and the upper part of my range stopped sounding like Abe Simpson or bad opera. Let me add that a big part of it for me is placement. Once I started thinking about where the sound resonated, and deliberately placing that resonance more and more in my head and face for higher notes, it was easier for my vocal chords to do what they were supposed to do with less effort. So the short answer is that as I get into my upper range, my head voice starts kicking in, but I still have some support from my chest voice to keep it thick (and loud). At this point, I could be doing a little bit of "zipping" as well. I don't really "feel" anything in my throat when I sing, so it's hard to tell EXACTLY what's going on in there. And I'm glad you enjoyed the Kansas tune. That was fun to record, especially laying down the harmonies.

 

Hey Seven Do you have any resources (videos, mp3) with the gug, mum and whiches cackle exercices, as well as the tongue out ( although that one seems fairly easy to get)?

 

I only practiced before with diaphragm muscular training, and some aw, ooh and the basic aeiou going up and down (to warm up). So I'd love to get perfect examples of someone doing those (as opposed to reading a broad description).

 

Sent you a PM

[SevenString]

Hey Seven Do you have any resources (videos, mp3) with the gug, mum and whiches cackle exercices, as well as the tongue out ( although that one seems fairly easy to get)? I only practiced before with diaphragm muscular training, and some aw, ooh and the basic aeiou going up and down (to warm up). So I'd love to get perfect examples of someone doing those (as opposed to reading a broad description). Sent you a PM

 

I got these exercises from a great voice teacher (James Lugo in Hollywood, if anyone is interested), so unfortunately, I don't know where you would find clips of these particular ones.

 

 

One VERY IMPORTANT thing I forgot to stress enough in my prior post: when doing the "heee-awww" exercise, start out at a VERY low, but well supported volume, then over time, work your way up in volume as you gain control. Otherwise, pushing too much air will force the break to chest voice as you go down in pitch.

 

You have to build up strength in the passaggio before you can really use it effectively at higher volumes.

 

 

Sent you a PM back.