Drummer trouble...

[lewzer]

I'm not sure if this is the right forum, and I'm sure this not a new situation to many people, but I really need to vent.

 

I've had a really hard time getting a band together. Just about everyone I run into turns into a dead end, and I think I'm about to hit another one.

 

I finally met up with a drummer that wanted to get together and play. Long story short, after a couple of months ir doesn't look like it's going to work. He hasn't completely learned a song yet. He'll skim over the basics of the song but he always misses the important parts and never really tries to capture the feel of the them.

 

There are times here and there when things really click, but there are a lot more times when he forgets the part or just doesn't practice enough. I've recorded some ideas and gave them to him but he really doesn't work with them at all. We'll hammer out the parts of the song one week but the next week it's like we're starting over again.

 

So it looks like I'm going to end up back at square one. I told him we should take the week off and meet the next week. I tried to make it clear that we really needed to get these songs figured out, but I just don't have much faith in things getting better.

 

He's a super nice guy and he's not any trouble to be around, it just looks like he doesn't put in the time that is needed to form a good band. I just don't know if I should keep up with this and at least be playing or just start the long search over again.

 

Sorry for the novel, but can anyone relate?

[DanielQ]

I can definitely relate.

 

He sounds unmotivated. My band had an unmotivated drummer and we gave him the boot and replaced him with a drummer who cared about the music.

 

Spell it out for him.

[lewzer]

I really need to. I've been stepping around it and hoping things will fix themselves, but it gets annoying when I carry all of my gear over there and not be able to get through a song. I don't know if I should just stop every time he's playing it wrong or tell him after the fact. I know they don't have to play it perfect, but when there are stops in the song, sometimes he'll just keep playing the rythm. Annoying...

 

I guess I'm just putting off the inevitable..

[DanielQ]

It comes down to a few things. Is he just a poor drummer or is he unmotivated? I wouldn't stop everytime in a song if he messes up unless it was a major part that you just clarified. I would, however, mention it whenever you finish playing your current selection.

 

Make sure he knows that you're serious about playing and that you want to make progress - that you're not doing it just for fun or whatever. You might also want to consider practicing more than once a week (I assume you're doing it just once). We had a similar problem about members not practicing or not remembering parts correctly. We practice 2-3 times a week now (usually for about 3 hours) and there's been a huge change in our quality.

[lewzer]

He's not an amazing drummer but he's not at all a bad one. I like him because he doesn't try to overdo things and he doesn't play rediculously loud. I didn't know if it was a great idea to play more often. I've been afraid that will mean less time to learn the songs, but I guess that repetition of actually playing together will help. Hopefully it doesn't translate to more frustration...

[GreenAsJade]

Do you have a goal? What are you guys working towards? A 40 song set in 3 months time, so you can gig? 10 Originals so you can record?

 

Sometimes... no goal, no motivation... next week is as good as this week unless there's something you're working towards...

 

GaJ

[lewzer]

 

Do you have a goal? What are you guys working towards? A 40 song set in 3 months time, so you can gig? 10 Originals so you can record? Sometimes... no goal, no motivation... next week is as good as this week unless there's something you're working towards... GaJ

 

 

My goal is to gig and at least have a few originals recorded. We try to exchange lists of songs to play and then pick out what we want to work on that week. Then if I have originals I'll show them to him then. The problem is that we'll have 4 or 5 songs that we want to do, but when I get there he clearly hasn't put the time in to learn them. He's only listened to them and maybe ran through them a couple of times. The only originals we have are the ones I have completely written and coached him through in order to get the beat right. I'd really love to have someone that I can actually collaborate with rather than dictate the entire process.

 

The only other question I have is what do you do about the originals? Should I tell him "don't use these because they are mine" or is there an unspoken rule about them. I'm also afraid that, since he does have them on CD, he would try to use them with another band. But, I imagine that's sort of a 'worst case scenario' that's unlikely, but still possible.

[GreenAsJade]

OK - so you have a goal. Does he share the goal?

 

It's the starting point for conversations. "Hey, you know, it seems that we're not really going at a rate where we'll be ready to play Billy's wedding in a month, what do you think?"

 

If it doesn't rapidly converge, its never going to. We wasted 18 months on a loser bass player and loser drum player wishing the bass player would get motivated to rehearse and that the drum player would work on his tempo control. It all ended in a train wreck, back to the beginning again. Don't waste your time if you're not enjoying it make a change. OTOH. if you're enjoying the trip, but it's just the train is moving slower than you like, then youo might find staying on board and enjoying the scenery is the way to go...

 

 

GaJ

[lewzer]

OK - so you have a goal. Does he share the goal? It's the starting point for conversations. "Hey, you know, it seems that we're not really going at a rate where we'll be ready to play Billy's wedding in a month, what do you think?" If it doesn't rapidly converge, its never going to. We wasted 18 months on a loser bass player and loser drum player wishing the bass player would get motivated to rehearse and that the drum player would work on his tempo control. It all ended in a train wreck, back to the beginning again. Don't waste your time if you're not enjoying it make a change. OTOH. if you're enjoying the trip, but it's just the train is moving slower than you like, then youo might find staying on board and enjoying the scenery is the way to go... GaJ

 

Thanks, that helps a lot. I think I should really have a talk with him about the type of band he wants to be in and see if we're on the same page and then express what I'm wanting to do. If we're on the same page, great. If not, then we should go back to square one because I would really like to make some progress and actually write some good music. At first I was really inspired and those two songs came together in a week. After that, I'm feeling worse about it and I'm a little less inspired.

[GreenAsJade]

Good luck

[JimiRules]

I'd say have the talk with him. Tell him that the fact that he's not learning the material has you concerned about the future of the project. Ask him how he would feel if the roles were reversed. I doubt he'd like taking the time to learn the material only to come to practice and see that you're unprepared.

 

Sounds to me like he might be the type of person that just "wants to be in a band", be able to tell his buddies that he's in a band, and not have to put in the work that is required to be in a band. We had a singer like that. We worked with the guy for 7 months. He was all gung ho about it, wanted to play out, yet he would never work on the songs. We had him choose songs that he wanted to sing and that he knew he could sing and he would continue to come to practice and fumble over the same things over and over. I'd make the guy CD's, print out lyrics and give them to him, and he'd still not work on them. Yet he was mad that we weren't playing anywhere. We'd continually tell him, "We should be playing 4 hour gigs by now, and you don't even know enough songs to co-op with another band!" He'd tell us that he'd crack down, and ever practice was the same. Finally we just ended up giving him the boot.

 

I hate to say it but I bet your drummer is the same type of person. Like I said, I'd talk to him but if you don't see an improvement within a few weeks, cut him loose. It's not worth your time, we learned that the hard way.

[wades_keys]

 

I finally met up with a drummer that wanted to get together and play. Long story short, after a couple of months ir doesn't look like it's going to work. He hasn't completely learned a song yet. He'll skim over the basics of the song but he always misses the important parts and never really tries to capture the feel of the them.

 

THat's an absolutely pathetic level of performance from the drummer.

 

In contrast to that, I'm working with a drummer that has, in 3 rehearsals, nailed the drum parts to 30 songs. I myself have learned all of my parts for 20 songs, and only rehearsed once.

 

Time for the drummer to {censored}, or get off the pot bro.

 

You should bring in a drummer that can learn the songs just by listening; there are a ton of them about.

 

Then make sure this dude knows that this is what he is competing with - sounds like he's living in a bubble (If you're his friend, he needs to know where he stands musically, and he is still in pre-school)

[lewzer]

 

THat's an absolutely pathetic level of performance from the drummer. In contrast to that, I'm working with a drummer that has, in 3 rehearsals, nailed the drum parts to 30 songs. I myself have learned all of my parts for 20 songs, and only rehearsed once. Time for the drummer to {censored}, or get off the pot bro. You should bring in a drummer that can learn the songs just by listening; there are a ton of them about. Then make sure this dude knows that this is what he is competing with - sounds like he's living in a bubble (If you're his friend, he needs to know where he stands musically, and he is still in pre-school)

 

 

Wow, that really hit me. I know all bands are different, but it's good to get another perspective to see just how little our situation is progressing. I don't even see how we can add new members if he can't get the songs right.

 

Thanks a lot for that...

[otaypanky]

I'm an old guy playing 45+ years, but haven't had a band since the late 70's. I finally decided I was way overdue to do something with my music other than practicing at home several hours every day. So, recently I started getting together with a few friends, --- bass, drums, and keys. After a couple of weeks, the keyboard player started getting 'iffy' as far as being able to make practice. He said he loved playing with us, but often had an excuse of one sort or another as to why he couldn't make it. We rolled with it for about 3 weeks, but are now looking for a replacement keyboardist, and I don't even think of him as part of the group at this point. If he were to show up, that would be great, but sometimes you gotta' read the tea leaves. Our goal is some local gigs, 1 or 2 a week, and some recording of originals. The keyboardist is a great player, he learned quickly, and could sing as well. I truly miss him. He was a great asset, and for years I have been dying to play with a great keyboardist. But because we couldn't rely on him, he became a hindrance.

As far as our practice sessions go ~ We record everything. That way we have a reference. Hearing it back clues you in right from the start as to what's good and what's not. Plus, burn a disc for each guy and evryone has it to listen to until the next session. Repetition is essential. If we screw up a part, we may play through it, but at the end of the song, we go back and hammer it out until it's clean and correct.

The drummer keeps a metronome handy and logs down the tempo that we play each tune at, as well as the key. That gives us an accurate reference when starting a song.

Your drummer may not be the one who's holding your band back. You might want to step up and take that responsibility ~ I say that only because you're being a nice guy and trying to work with someone who may already be putting out as much as he's capable of. But as long as you decide to go with him, it sounds like that's what you should expect to get from him. It's not all that likely that you are going to change him. So it's your responsibility to decide for yourself if that's good enough for you. You sound like you have a plan, so go for it. Make it good, the way YOU want it. Don't just settle for a guy with a pulse and a drum kit. Find another guy like you that wants to get out there, and who has a good work ethic when it comes to his music. And let us hear some clips when you find him and start getting it together !

[lewzer]

Wow...the perfect kick in the ass. I hate to say it, but you're right. The longer I let it go on, the more the fault rests on me rather than him. I'll try and have a talk with him asap. I'll read your post to get me psyched up.

 

Thanks!

[GreenAsJade]

Beats me where wade lives where there are a ton of good drummers about.

 

Most posts in this forum are lamenting not being able to find dummers who can keep time and play at a reasonably low level.

 

The question of "how much should people be able to learn" is "how long is a piece of string". Nailing 20 songs with one rehearsal is well out of the amateur musician leage IMHO. A reasonable hobby band rehearsing once a week would learn 2-3 songs per week on a regular basis, and be nailing those while learning the next: that's my impression of what weekend warrior style bands achieve. That's what we were able to do for a sustained period. Just another data point for "what's reasonable" I guess.

 

GaJ

[GreenAsJade]

(not saying you shouldn't talk to the guy... you definitely should. But a drummer who will come and join a new band and can play on tempo, low volume and pick up 30 songs overnight is going to be a rare find indeed)

[otaypanky]

Sometimes a kick in the ass is simply a boost forward : )

[wades_keys]

 

The question of "how much should people be able to learn" is "how long is a piece of string". Nailing 20 songs with one rehearsal is well out of the amateur musician leage IMHO. GaJ

 

That's true - the cat I'm talking about is a former touring pro, with a photographic memory for drum parts.

 

Even so, what he describes is absolutely pathetic, a terrible slow pace.

 

I know 3 drummer's I can call right now, all of whom varying degrees of skill, and the worst of the lot is nowhere near that slow learning tunes.

 

Fish or cut bait.

[lewzer]

 

That's true - the cat I'm talking about is a former touring pro, with a photographic memory for drum parts. Even so, what he describes is absolutely pathetic, a terrible slow pace. I know 3 drummer's I can call right now, all of whom varying degrees of skill, and the worst of the lot is nowhere near that slow learning tunes. Fish or cut bait.

 

 

Yea, I definitely don't plan on learning 20 songs a week or anything. But we're not even getting through 3-4 a week. We'll work on the same lot of songs and he keeps making the exact same mistake, even if I do point them out...

[TotalPoser]

Maybe he's really not that into jamming with you, or just has too much else going on during the week to make it work? Time to find someone whose commitment level is closer to your own.