Venue putting pressure on us to help fill calendar

[wheresgrant3]

Here's a unique situation... A few weeks ago I wrote about us breaking into a brand new venue... a place that is in every respect an A-list venue. The problem is there is very little A-list talent to support it and the management is asking us to help guide them in booking entertainment. The room is a high end, Miami-Style nightclub and is connected to a large banquets hall that hosts multiple weddings... etc. This venue is a multi-million dollar complex over looking a waterfront area. Our success and relationship with it's sister club (same owners) is what finally led to opportunity to be the first band with a regular booking. Up until a few weeks ago it was DJ's exclusively.

 

Our first show was better than the owners hoped for and set the bar extremely high for other bands and entertainment acts to follow... and that is the problem. The owners want the level of show and presentation in other regional bands, and they can't find it. So they are asking (make that pressuring us) for referrals. The problem is we really don't have any. That's not to say that there aren't other bands that play similar setlists or do what we do... there are plenty, but they mostly follow our lead. Most try to copy what we do with half the investment and half the effort. The result are cheap knockoff bands that are going through the motions rather than creating their own stage show. We've recommended a few higher end wedding style bands, that we're confident on but the feed back from the club is that they may keep people dancing but there is no real stage show or event.

 

An alternative would be to reach out of the area with agency bands that we've modeled ourselves on... but that's where things get expensive and the returns limited. The club can spend $2000-4000 to get an regional agency act in the door, but without a local connection and following most ultimately fail to draw. I recently went to a local dance club on an off night to see an agency band brought in from over 3 hours away... the club paid over $3000 for the entertainment and the room had less than 50 people. Booking entertainment on that scale will ultimately destroy an entertainment budget. This is a venue where we draw 300-400 every time we play there.

 

We've faced with this situation before with other venues and it was easily ignored (that the owners problem, not ours), but that's because we had a significant advantage remaining an exclusive act or there was little benefit for us to bring in any competition. This time we're wondering who and how to bring entertainment in. The venue's position is 'we love you guys, we want you every Friday night if you wanted to book it... but we'll settle for one Friday a month, but we need 4-5 other good bands to supply entertainment on the rest of the nights. If we can't find that we may have to re-think having live entertainment altogether. . This room is officially our highest paying on the list... it also raises our local profile tremendously. It's also an anchor for us in a area we really need some representation in. It's a small city with 3 well known colleges close by. This is not a room we would choose to lose under any circumstances.

 

There's probably not answer here... but if there were ever an opportunity to start my own agency, now would be the time to do so.

[rangefinder]

 

The club can spend $2000-4000 to get an regional agency act in the door

 

 

This seems like the obvious answer to me.

 

 

but without a local connection and following most ultimately fail to draw.

 

 

...and this is a problem you might be able to help solve, in return for... something. A return gig plus promo in that band's home area. A foot in the door to stepping up to agency gigs yourself. A portion of the door. From what I understand, all-original bands do this sort of cross-promotion all the time.

[astone923]

I know the place, and my buddy Jay doing a weekly happy hour there on the deck for the summer... there is no band around here that does what you do... all the bands that draw at all are rock bands, and they don't want that... From the sounds of it, they want to have instant success with the live music scene, but don't want to put the work into making the scene happen. Their best bet is to bring in the best acts they can, and build a reputation over time, for having the best live music... people will come eventually, but they should understand that it takes time to build anything. If they're looking to pull off one night a week, they could do themes (reggae, hip hop, salsa...) that way they can have some good acts with different followings, and that might work for everyone.

 

A buddy of mine has a motto... to achieve success you either have to be the first, be the best, or work the hardest... they're not the first, but they could be the best, and that will over time build into success... it worked for you, didn't it?

[n9ne]

Have you considered the possibility of booking extended engagements at this club? For example, instead of booking them for the first weekend of each month....maybe you could book them for a 2-3 week block every month. Almost like a semi-house band. This would keep you booked solid at your highest-paying venue, while still leaving openings in your calendar for other events.

 

Of course, there are risks involved. Playing the same venue on a regular basis means there's a risk of overexposure. Right now, it's an "event" whenever the band plays a venue....but if you're constantly playing the same venue, then your fans that show up whenever you play will start skipping shows, thinking "Well, I can always see them next week....or the week after.....".

 

There's also the fact that playing fewer regional dates could lower your visibility and exposure in other markets/areas. The question is, would this negatively affect your popularity in these areas? Or would playing fewer dates make fans in that area more likely to show up, knowing that it may be 6 months before you're back at that same venue? (Absence makes the heart grow fonder, and all that.)

[kmart]

My gut says you should be honest and up-front with the principals and let them know just what you seem to be saying here:

That there really aren't any comparable (in terms of production or 'show') local bands, and that to bring in a comparable act from outside the area means more $ with (at least initially) the likelihood of lower numbers at the door. In order to achieve what they are attempting, it will take time and effort on their end, as well as a fair amount of patience. And luck...

 

If you are up for it collectively as a band, tell them you are open to helping figure out potential solutions, and willing to be an available 'voice of experience' they can use as a consultant to help; someone they can think of as a partner, not 'just another band/supplier'.

 

Or...

Target an agency you WANT to work with, partner up with them and introduce them to management at the venue, basically passing things off to the agency to deliver bands that fit the venue's specs. Then the responsibility to supply acts is on the agency, and the venue should only hold them accountable for delivering on that. This extricates you from a potentially awkward situation if they don't.

 

Be sure that in the front-end of things, you (1) get something out of the situation from the agency for the hook-up (choice bookings to your specs out of your usual booking geography?), and (2) make sure the venue understands you are doing a solid for them on the connection, but that anything that develops (and potentially fails/falls flat) as a result of that connection is NOT related to you/your band.

[wheresgrant3]

 

I know the place, and my buddy Jay doing a weekly happy hour there on the deck for the summer... there is no band around here that does what you do... all the bands that draw at all are rock bands, and they don't want that... From the sounds of it, they want to have instant success with the live music scene, but don't want to put the work into making the scene happen. Their best bet is to bring in the best acts they can, and build a reputation over time, for having the best live music... people will come eventually, but they should understand that it takes time to build anything. If they're looking to pull off one night a week, they could do themes (reggae, hip hop, salsa...) that way they can have some good acts with different followings, and that might work for everyone. A buddy of mine has a motto... to achieve success you either have to be the first, be the best, or work the hardest... they're not the first, but they could be the best, and that will over time build into success... it worked for you, didn't it?

 

 

You hit the nail completely on the head. They want to host the entertainment and 'boom' have it magically be successful. Impatience is a virtue kept by many a club owner. The difference with this one is they have the money and are willing to put it where their mouth is and spend to promote it. And when we see a club who's willing to do more than the basics to get people to show well, we're willing to bend/work harder as well.

 

The whole reason they decided to try out live bands in the first place was because their Friday nights had dried up. Averaging less than 50 people at best. So they want plug and play bands... there are many good ones, but as you said they are rock bands and that is not the vibe of the club nor do that want that style of entertainment. We have referred a few bands that we felt were up to the task. That's where it should end I believe. It's just like a job referrals... you can refer someone based on your opinion of that person, but you can't vouch for their success in the position. This is all new to them so I understand to a certain extent their impatience. If this worked out as an exclusive for us, I would be fine with whatever happens, but I'm not certain they would support that for even an 'event' 3-4 times a year.

 

I'd love to see them make each night a theme... bring in a latin band on Friday, a funk band the next week. It would be terrific if each band were a different style and theme with little overlap in set list. What they don't want is the dime a dozen cover bands that all play Top 40 because they have to but would prefer to crank up and deliver rock instead. I think even you'd agree, hearing a band play 'Crazy Bitch' is not the vibe of this place at all.

 

We'll see how this goes. It's a terrific space for us in 2012 and we're willing to bend/work harder than for some other local venues because we think it's worthwhile.

[TIMKEYS]

In the long run they are going to need an agency. Your goal is to not let the agency cut you out of the pie as part of the deal. They also have to consider that they will be out of the band business if they cant fill the room. Even people with a ton of money wont keep drilling dry holes forever.

 

things to think about

 

Can you pull off the house band deal?

Do you want to start dabbling in the booking biz

Do you know bands that are good enough to build them a rotation

Do you just want to put yourself on a rotation and let them fend for themselves.

Name brand DJs is another idea.

You got a tough situation but its also a great situation. making the right choice is the key.

 

My concern would be to keep your act unique in the club. No nut wanna be bands

 

In the summer down here there are a handfull of solid acts. Most have house gigs or get booked for the summer as every fri night,, or every sat night or both. Our people rotate though due to being a destination resort so a house gig works. The big hotel books agency bands for multiple day runs. The band that used to do their house band duty opened their own venue and they went to an agency. That in a way is better for us locals ,,we get some variety.

 

If you decide to try a house gig deal ,, it takes tons of material. we are a house band. over 500 songs on the front burner list. The other band that has a venue has a big list as well and plays all styles of music. They can do theme nights.

 

If I were going to do a nuts houseband deal ,,, I would work in really good guest DJs to work with you ,, That would make each show unique.

[wheresgrant3]

 

In the long run they are going to need an agency. Your goal is to not let the agency cut you out of the pie as part of the deal. They also have to consider that they will be out of the band business if they cant fill the room. Even people with a ton of money wont keep drilling dry holes forever. things to think about Can you pull off the house band deal? Do you want to start dabbling in the booking biz Do you know bands that are good enough to build them a rotation Do you just want to put yourself on a rotation and let them fend for themselves. Name brand DJs is another idea. You got a tough situation but its also a great situation. making the right choice is the key. My concern would be to keep your act unique in the club. No nut wanna be bands In the summer down here there are a handfull of solid acts. Most have house gigs or get booked for the summer as every fri night,, or every sat night or both. Our people rotate though due to being a destination resort so a house gig works. The big hotel books agency bands for multiple day runs. The band that used to do their house band duty opened their own venue and they went to an agency. That in a way is better for us locals ,,we get some variety. If you decide to try a house gig deal ,, it takes tons of material. we are a house band. over 500 songs on the front burner list. The other band that has a venue has a big list as well and plays all styles of music. They can do theme nights. If I were going to do a nuts houseband deal ,,, I would work in really good guest DJs to work with you ,, That would make each show unique.

 

 

Alot of good ideas here Tim...

Can you pull off the house band deal? On a weeknight yes... weekend no. It would fail ultimately. A show like ours doesn't require massive turnover of material... in fact people come because the material itself is a known commodity. Burnout would follow quickly. For them and us. Sometimes it's best to keep some distance between venues... it keeps the band on it's toes and much less under the thumb of the venue...

 

A larger question would be 'do we have the room and desire for a house gig' and the answer is no... we're booked between 9-12 rooms on rotation. A house gig would seriously eat into availability for all kinds of bookings.

 

Do you want to start dabbling in the booking biz

Not really... we've thought about setting up our own agency over the years... the effort would diminish our own band and again... there is a lack of talent to make it work here. On the solo and acoustic side there would be plenty of work... but on the band side I'd see us become the dumping ground for why band's can't elevate their own pay... etc. Too much conflict of interest. Maybe when I retire from this act. LOL;)

 

 

Do you know bands that are good enough to build them a rotation?

Maybe one or two bands (one which I think is terrific and totally suited for the style of this room). Again the problem lies in that so many other bands are busy being a copy cat they haven't elevated their own performance to stand on their own. There will always be a comparison (which confuses and frustrates the {censored} out of me). But it's good to be on the winning end of that comparison.

 

It's not really about being good enough, it's matching a style which here is key. This room has a dress code, it's higher end... they want to cater to that clientele who wants to dress up and spend a little money. It's not that the bands in the area can't clean up well... but their material still falls short... into that guitar rock, disguising itself and dance oriented Top 40.

 

Do you just want to put yourself on a rotation and let them fend for themselves.

 

We may end up just doing that... do the best we can, focus on our night and hope they see the long term value in that.

Name brand DJs is another idea.

They do that on Saturday nights... and it is uber successful. The idea is to build a contrasting night where the DK and band compliment each other. Perhaps a terrific idea for a larger market. Besides, we bring our own talented DJ and that's part of our package and they love it. But it works because our DJ is essentially part of the band. He knows our setlist and build his playlist around that.

 

 

You got a tough situation but its also a great situation. making the right choice is the key.

 

Absolutely right... this is not a problem... it's an opportunity. Just trying to figure the best approach to make this a mainstay in 2012. We fought for this opportunity but it could be ours to lose as well, indirectly if the venue can't find complimenting entertainment.

[TIMKEYS]

 

Alot of good ideas here Tim... Can you pull off the house band deal? On a weeknight yes... weekend no. It would fail ultimately. A show like ours doesn't require massive turnover of material... in fact people come because the material itself is a known commodity. Burnout would follow quickly. For them and us. Sometimes it's best to keep some distance between venues... it keeps the band on it's toes and much less under the thumb of the venue... A larger question would be 'do we have the room and desire for a house gig' and the answer is no... we're booked between 9-12 rooms on rotation. A house gig would seriously eat into availability for all kinds of bookings. Do you want to start dabbling in the booking biz Not really... we've thought about setting up our own agency over the years... the effort would diminish our own band and again... there is a lack of talent to make it work here. On the solo and acoustic side there would be plenty of work... but on the band side I'd see us become the dumping ground for why band's can't elevate their own pay... etc. Too much conflict of interest. Maybe when I retire from this act. LOL;) Do you know bands that are good enough to build them a rotation? Maybe one or two bands (one which I think is terrific and totally suited for the style of this room). Again the problem lies in that so many other bands are busy being a copy cat they haven't elevated their own performance to stand on their own. There will always be a comparison (which confuses and frustrates the {censored} out of me). But it's good to be on the winning end of that comparison. It's not really about being good enough, it's matching a style which here is key. This room has a dress code, it's higher end... they want to cater to that clientele who wants to dress up and spend a little money. It's not that the bands in the area can't clean up well... but their material still falls short... into that guitar rock, disguising itself and dance oriented Top 40. Do you just want to put yourself on a rotation and let them fend for themselves. We may end up just doing that... do the best we can, focus on our night and hope they see the long term value in that. Name brand DJs is another idea. They do that on Saturday nights... and it is uber successful. The idea is to build a contrasting night where the DK and band compliment each other. Perhaps a terrific idea for a larger market. Besides, we bring our own talented DJ and that's part of our package and they love it. But it works because our DJ is essentially part of the band. He knows our setlist and build his playlist around that. You got a tough situation but its also a great situation. making the right choice is the key. Absolutely right... this is not a problem... it's an opportunity. Just trying to figure the best approach to make this a mainstay in 2012. We fought for this opportunity but it could be ours to lose as well, indirectly if the venue can't find complimenting entertainment.

 

 

 

 

I think the biggest issue you face is that the venue goes with an agency and that agency will sign them to an exclusive.. and you get cut out. They dont seem to want to stand on their own two feet when it comes to booking so they will be looking for someone to make it easy. I would not dilly dally and get your dates for the next year under contract with them ,,, so that the agency has to work around you for at least 6 months or a year.

[MartinC]

You worry too much Grant. I think many business people have the same problem-they have a hard time saying no to a customer. That's often the best course of action. They need more bands like "Nuts". Well, there aren't any. Sorry. Oh, so you'll cancel live music because you can't hit a home run every time you come to bat? Well, that's dumb. And a nice way to put the pressure on you. My group has made good money because there aren't any other groups in our area doing what we do. Suppy and demand. Seems like it's the same for you guys. Be proud of that. I'd tell the guy there aren't any other groups like yours in the area, and if they want another, they are going to have to truck them in, pay them lots, and promote the heck out of it because they won't have a local following. Because, as you've written, that's the truth. And if they expect you to change that, then they need to make you a part of their business, not an unpaid entertainment consultant. And of course, you need to want that job.

[wheresgrant3]

You worry too much Grant. I think many business people have the same problem-they have a hard time saying no to a customer. That's often the best course of action. They need more bands like "Nuts". Well, there aren't any. Sorry. Oh, so you'll cancel live music because you can't hit a home run every time you come to bat? Well, that's dumb. And a nice way to put the pressure on you. My group has made good money because there aren't any other groups in our area doing what we do. Suppy and demand. Seems like it's the same for you guys. Be proud of that. I'd tell the guy there aren't any other groups like yours in the area, and if they want another, they are going to have to truck them in, pay them lots, and promote the heck out of it because they won't have a local following. Because, as you've written, that's the truth. And if they expect you to change that, then they need to make you a part of their business, not an unpaid entertainment consultant. And of course, you need to want that job.

 

Martin... very true. I don't consider it worry... I consider it building a strategy.

 

But I can tell you there's plenty of reason for worry... in the last year we've lost 5 rooms that we drew well in but the venue couldn't make a sustainable profitable on the nights we weren't booked. One by one they switched to DJ's. That's a cold reality. Again we survive in some venues where other bands have failed by maintaining an exclusive booking.. playing events a few times a year. I'd prefer NOT to see that in this case. I do believe they will feel it's much easier to embrace the alternative... just hire the DJ and forget the rest. That would be a shame.

[TIMKEYS]

Martin... very true. I don't consider it worry... I consider it building a strategy. But I can tell you there's plenty of reason for worry... in the last year we've lost 5 rooms that we drew well in but the venue couldn't make a sustainable profitable on the nights we weren't booked. One by one they switched to DJ's. That's a cold reality. Again we survive in some venues where other bands have failed by maintaining an exclusive booking.. playing events a few times a year. I'd prefer NOT to see that in this case. I do believe they will feel it's much easier to embrace the alternative... just hire the DJ and forget the rest. That would be a shame.

 

 

If you are the greatest thing since sliced bread to these venues for making money. ,,, why are they not booking you ,, in addition to their DJ's when they can get on your sched ? Are you sure they are making what you think they are making with you guys? Why would they drop a good thing?

[wheresgrant3]

If you are the greatest thing since sliced bread to these venues for making money. ,,, why are they not booking you ,, in addition to their DJ's when they can get on your sched ? Are you sure they are making what you think they are making with you guys? Why would they drop a good thing?

 

Tim... do I have to explain nightclub format? Is it common in your area for a large capacity club to change a nightly entertainment format across the board and keep just one acts that books well? It's the clubs discretion to change format... management changes, clubs change. Three of clubs were agency rooms... and they were still willing to book us, at a reduced rate. The clubs entertainment budget was cut across the board. In fact I believe the exact reasoning was something like: In light of the increased challenges we face in this economy we're asking that all bands booked at X-club take a 30% reduction in pay..." That was directed toward all entertainment. A $500-600 DJ is not charging the same as a $2000 band but they were asked to make the cut as well. Since many bands affected were traveling bands they folded the local bands that remained into a single weekend night. It didn't make sense to travel that far for less money.

 

Most large capacity clubs would prefer to plug in a format that works across the board. They are looking for consistency. They may make exceptions, but they'd prefer to plug in and promote one format across the board.

 

Nightclubs in 2011 are booked differently in areas outside South Padre. This is where you start to ditter a little.. It only leads to you looking 'out of touch' and me posting a ton of video to refute your line of questioning.

[TIMKEYS]

Tim... do I have to explain nightclub format? Is it common in your area for a large capacity club to change a nightly entertainment format across the board and keep just one acts that books well? It's the clubs discretion to change format... management changes, clubs change. Three of clubs were agency rooms... and they were still willing to book us, at a reduced rate. The clubs entertainment budget was cut across the board. In fact I believe the exact reasoning was something like: In light of the increased challenges we face in this economy we're asking that all bands booked at X-club take a 30% reduction in pay..." That was directed toward all entertainment. A $500-600 DJ is not charging the same as a $2000 band but they were asked to make the cut as well. Since many bands affected were traveling bands they folded the local bands that remained into a single weekend night. It didn't make sense to travel that far for less money. Most large capacity clubs would prefer to plug in a format that works across the board. They are looking for consistency. They may make exceptions, but they'd prefer to plug in and promote one format across the board. Nightclubs in 2011 are booked differently in areas outside South Padre. This is where you start to ditter a little.. It only leads to you looking 'out of touch' and me posting a ton of video to refute your line of questioning.

 

whatever ,,, 5 rooms just went south on you. In business most people tend to repeat things that are solid money makers. My guess is that your crowds are still big , but they are not spending as much. The guys on the bandstand typically are the last ones to figure that out. They see lots of dancers and think all is right with the world. You wont notice a 30 percent decrease on sales of product or switching from high profit mixed drinks to beer, or them nursing a beer for a whole set. If you are replaceing these rooms,, with other rooms all is still right with the world. I think the trend is that people are spending less money all over the country when it comes to going out. I can see that there are not near as many people on the island as there was last year at this time. I would guess that we will see some venues go broke. The island lost a couple this fall already. They were not hole in the wall establishments either.

[wheresgrant3]

whatever ,,, 5 rooms just went south on you. In business most people tend to repeat things that are solid money makers. My guess is that your crowds are still big , but they are not spending as much. The guys on the bandstand typically are the last ones to figure that out. They see lots of dancers and think all is right with the world. You wont notice a 30 percent decrease on sales of product or switching from high profit mixed drinks to beer, or them nursing a beer for a whole set. If you are replaceing these rooms,, with other rooms all is still right with the world. I think the trend is that people are spending less money all over the country when it comes to going out. I can see that there are not near as many people on the island as there was last year at this time. I would guess that we will see some venues go broke. The island lost a couple this fall already. They were not hole in the wall establishments either.

 

For every door that closes three more open.... 70% of the calendar for 2012 is full through Jan 2013... we've increased pay 20% and added 3 new rooms. So I don't think there's much wrong with our business plan. Nightclubs however I can't vouch for. They have different overhead structures, change management more often and tend to be a bit more volatile than your average corner bar. They also pay alot better too. I will certainly agree that the economy has put a pinch on people's pockets and that is hurting the clubs directly. The business we do on the nights we play is very good... good enough for clubs that we've played in for years to ask for more bookings than we have room to give. What I can't speak for is an agency gig at a destination room in a completely different state. We get booked, we drive the 2+ hours, we play our asses off... the room is packed, we know few faces...... we later get word they're reducing pay, folding live entertainment into just Saturday nights and Friday nights will be DJ only. Whoever can take the hit is welcome to stay. This is a budget decision not a band decision. In these rooms we're not being paid to draw... we're being paid to simply entertain. I can't speak for how much the till rang at the end of a particular night. Not privy to that info. All I can point to is the pictures and video taken at that particular show. But nightclubs don't work on a night by night basis. Every night must be a win. Most have to make bank in just 2-3 nights they are open.

 

Again, the economy is very sluggish. In my area I don't see people spending less when they go out... but I do see people becoming choosier in where and how often they spend it. Friday nights are suffering a bit. It used to be that you'd see the same faces at every show every weekend. Now you see people picking and choosing what shows to attend much more often.

 

This venue described is much more sustainable. They are not in danger of closing. But given a rough start they will certainly change formats.

[TIMKEYS]

For every door that closes three more open.... 70% of the calendar for 2012 is full through Jan 2013... we've increased pay 20% and added 3 new rooms. So I don't think there's much wrong with our business plan. Nightclubs however I can't vouch for. They have different overhead structures, change management more often and tend to be a bit more volatile than your average corner bar. They also pay alot better too. I will certainly agree that the economy has put a pinch on people's pockets and that is hurting the clubs directly. The business we do on the nights we play is very good... good enough for clubs that we've played in for years to ask for more bookings than we have room to give. What I can't speak for is an agency gig at a destination room in a completely different state. We get booked, we drive the 2+ hours, we play our asses off... the room is packed, we know few faces...... we later get word they're reducing pay, folding live entertainment into just Saturday nights and Friday nights will be DJ only. Whoever can take the hit is welcome to stay. This is a budget decision not a band decision. In these rooms we're not being paid to draw... we're being paid to simply entertain. I can't speak for how much the till rang at the end of a particular night. Not privy to that info. All I can point to is the pictures and video taken at that particular show. But nightclubs don't work on a night by night basis. Every night must be a win. Most have to make bank in just 2-3 nights they are open. Again, the economy is very sluggish. In my area I don't see people spending less when they go out... but I do see people becoming choosier in where and how often they spend it. Friday nights are suffering a bit. It used to be that you'd see the same faces at every show every weekend. Now you see people picking and choosing what shows to attend much more often. This venue described is much more sustainable. They are not in danger of closing. But given a rough start they will certainly change formats.

 

As long as you can keep adding rooms as the old one go south, that is the name of the game. Thats pretty good to have 70+ gigs booked for next year ,, especially with 9 to 12 venues you are on the rotation with. How many gigs are you personally playing these days? I knew you cut back.