Parting Ways

[dan88z]

well, we've officially parted ways with our guitar player. He cancelled a gig that has been booked for a year to take a gig for more money. I got a week's notice. This isn't the 1st time he's done this, and I'm not going to deal with it as a band leader any more. It's just not good business.

 

While I fully understand his need to make money- he's the only guy in the band who is making a living this way- there is something to be said for integrity and honoring commitments. The guy is a complete monster player, but I don't care how good you are, if you can't make it to gigs that we've booked, it does me no good. In the last 2 years every gig that has been subbed out or cancelled is due to him. When I get 3 months notice, it's not a big deal. But the weeks notice just doesn't work for me. I get in this stressed out scramble mode of trying to find a sub (I know that a lot of bands will have the player who needs the sub find one, but I want to make sure the sub is someone I can trust), or I have to worry about doing the last minute cancel and having my reputation as a band/bandleader take a hit. We're already down our singer who is on maternity leave, and it's one of our best rooms that we're playing, and I really needed the full band there to support the sub singer on her 1st gig with us.

 

Luckily the guy we use as a sub is free, and he prepares well at home so 1 rehearsal will pull it together. He's a real good player but just doesn't have that "shred" edge that our current guy provides, that helps set us apart from all the other bands who do the same thing as us.

 

Our guy said he doesn't anticipate having to cancel any of the gigs we have booked thru the rest of the year, but at this point, I can't trust him. So my solution is to find a new player and have him worked in by October, that way we have no worries about the gigs. Tough luck on our old guy, he loses 5 gigs of money to make a good payday for one night, but that's the hand he played.

 

We already have a new guy lined up. Another weekend warrior, day gig/family guy like the rest of us. Plays guitar, bass, keys, and drums, apparently all very well too. Plus he sings, so we'll have every member of the band singing now. We'll lose out on the incredible playing and stage presence our current guy has, but in the long run, we'll be better off and come out ahead.

[tim_7string]

I have a policy against this very thing. If I find out a bandmember takes another gig because it's more money or more convenient for them (in town vs. out of town that was booked months ago), I will fire them. I won't even think about it. I'm not going to put myself in a situation where it's more complicated and stressful for me and easier for them. Then I would think they might do that every gig. If I tolerate that behavior, I'm basically giving them license to do it again and again.

 

My bandmates are good peeps. They make themselves available and understand that this band is the priority. If they want to fill in the gaps with other gigs, great, just run it by me first and make sure it doesn't conflict with gigs already in process or already on the books.

 

I agree with your decision.

[flanc]

You're doing the right thing. I'd be really pissed if someone cancelled on my with a weeks notice to take a more lucrative gig. As a cover band, you don't really need a "monster" player. It's like having a Ferrari for a taxi cab...sure it's nice but mostly unnecessary.

[StratGuy22]

I'm first come first served.

 

I've declined band gigs because I was already booked, but I've never declined a gig that's already been booked. I never cancel for a better paying job. The only way I would cancel would be a death in the family.

[tim_7string]

 

As a cover band, you don't really need a "monster" player. It's like having a Ferrari for a taxi cab...sure it's nice but mostly unnecessary.

 

 

Boy, ain't that the truth! I've seen plenty of cover bands with competent players that are constantly gigging. Great musicianship is always welcome, but not if it's attached to a huge ego or flaky personality.

[SeniorBlues]

 

Boy, ain't that the truth! I've seen plenty of cover bands with competent players that are constantly gigging. Great musicianship is always welcome, but not if it's attached to a huge ego or flaky personality.

 

 

But in this case, it's more a matter of full time vs weekend warrior. . . . He doesn't sound like a flake. . . . More like needing to max out his gig income . . . but yeah, I'd have done the same thing, and I'm assuming this has happened before and had been discussed after the fact.

 

We're really looking at two things . . . the first is leaving you all to find a sub if a better paying gig comes up, and the second is short notice.

 

I'm hoping this won't be an issue in my current band. It might.

 

. . . and I actually like playing with Ferrari's and don't consider it overkill in the context of what we're hoping to accomplish.

[flanc]

 

. . . and I actually like playing with Ferrari's and don't consider it overkill in the context of what we're hoping to accomplish.

 

 

Gotcha...not all band situations are the same...for our weekend warrior cover band, we don't need (pick your guitar God) to play Lady GaGa and Rihanna covers. I find this true for "most" cover bands and would rate things like, reliability and like-ability over exceptional skill (assuming competent skill exists). YMMV

[tim_7string]

 

But in this case, it's more a matter of full time vs weekend warrior. . . . He doesn't sound like a flake. . . . More like needing to max out his gig income . . . but yeah, I'd have done the same thing, and I'm assuming this has happened before and had been discussed after the fact.

 

 

No, I didn't mean he was a flake. It was apparent that the motivation was based purely on $$$. I was just talking about what I have dealt with before.

 

 

. . . and I actually like playing with Ferrari's and don't consider it overkill in the context of what we're hoping to accomplish.

 

 

I prefer playing with the best musicians possible, but that doesn't always mean they are the most reliable. I'll take reliable and a good personality over amazing musicianship every time. But I'm a bandleader like Dan and I want to have the same guys every time we play. Might sound like a lot to ask for these days, but I have it (at least for now).

[n8cJohn]

Maxing out his gig income (in the long run) would likely best be achieved by not pissing off the leader of the regular band (the OP).

 

I had a sales guy for my waste brokerage service for several years and I usually ended up paying him anywhere from $85K - $90K in a given year depending on how well we all did. He was not the best sales guy on the planet but he had some skills that I appreciated - so I kept him around. He was not satisified and left for a job making a guaranteed $96K. Not in direct competition with us - I wished him well - and did not replace him. That lasted a little over a year and they fired him because he was not justifying his salary in sales. He landed another job with a direct competitor of mine for roughly the same - plus a company truck. That lasted about 8 months.

 

The following holiday season, my wife ran into him bagging groceries at the local Kroger.

 

Early this year, one of my other competitors called me up to ask about him for a sales position. I told the owner of that company the truth - that if he had not quit my company, he would still be working for me. That was true. The competitor took that as a ringing endorsement and hired him. Lasted nearly three months at this place.

 

Now he is effectively out of the business and last I heard out of work still. I wouldn't hire him back (he did some things when he left that were pretty offensive) - but I would not have fired him either. We were a pretty good team for serveral years.

 

Some guys are a little too short sighted - which sounds like the case for this particular guitar player in the OP.

[wheresgrant3]

But in this case, it's more a matter of full time vs weekend warrior. . . . He doesn't sound like a flake. . . . More like needing to max out his gig income . . . but yeah, I'd have done the same thing, and I'm assuming this has happened before and had been discussed after the fact. We're really looking at two things . . . the first is leaving you all to find a sub if a better paying gig comes up, and the second is short notice.

 

 

Agreed... I understand these situations come up... but freakin one week's notice. That's cutting things way too close and certainly shows a lack of respect for the bookings. If it were me in that position I would have been doing backflips to make the sub ready. Then again I wouldn't have done that. I have bandmates that gig full time and depend on our band income but we gig often enough that this gig is certainly considered the primary gig. None would pull the same manuver unless the money was ridiculously good. It's just bad business to take a gig under short notice while committed to another project.

 

And Dan, for what it's worth... I agree, from your recordings he's a monster player. But getting a stable guitarist who can groove as well as play lead won't harm the band's sound in the slightest. The whole band sounds terrific.

[stratotastic]

Sorry to hear that Dan, but glad you have someone else lined up. TBH, I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner.

[n9ne]

Tell your former guitar player you're letting him go because you found someone who will play the gigs for twenty bucks less than you're paying him.

 

I agree that musicianship tends to be highly overrated, especially within the context of a cover band. Truth be told, I think musicians are the only ones who really care; in my experience, most bar patrons and club owners don't give a whole lot of thought to the band's level of musicianship. They recognize and appreciate a good player when they see one....but it just isn't that important. They tend to view the band as a whole...and individual musicianship is purely secondary. (And I tend to agree with them.)

 

I guess it kinda goes back to the whole "creative/dysfunctional" thread from a week or so ago....but most of the pro musicians I know really aren't spectacularly talented players; they're just good, solid players who possess a strong work ethic and who can be depended upon to show up prepared and conduct themselves in a professional manner, every time. And by the same token, many of the supremely talented musicians I've known over the years tend to jump from one project to the next, and never seem to stick with one thing for very long.

 

FWIW, it sounds like this new multi-talented addition is a real good guy to have on board. Thinking long term....assuming he's amenable to the idea, I would think that once he has the material down, he could probably transition between instruments fairly quickly without much extra work. So if there's a situation where you need a sub on another instrument, maybe he could fill in on those instruments as needed, and you could hire your old guitarist to do guitar for those dates. Just a thought.

[dan88z]

Well, we got the sub dialed in for this weekend, we had a good rehearsal with him and the sub singer. It'll be good. We're meeting with the potential new guy on Thursday to chat about things, and if all goes well, we'll probably start working with him next week and have 3 rehearsals to get the set list down. If something happens with this guy, like our personalities just clash, or he's looking for something different than what we can provide, the guy who is subbing Saturday will be able to fill in the other jobs. I'd actually hire that guy too, but he's already in a couple projects and I don't want that anymore. I'd rather spend the time to find someone who wants to dedicate themselvs to 1 band, even if it's a 3-5 show a month project like we are.

 

This was a tough move. I really like the old guy, as a person, as a player, as a friend. But the position he's put us in more than once has just shown a lack of respect for the band and we don't need the aggravation. I'm honestly surprised he's lasted with us as long as he has, it's very hard to support a full time player in a part time band. But we had a lot to offer, with the stability, the quality of the band, and the lack of drama that so many bands have surely kept him around.

 

As far as having a Ferrari- I want the best players possible. They learn faster and are more consistent from gig to gig. I want seasoned players who are pros, even if it's part time professional. It's just easier to work with people like that. Players who come into rehearsal with all their parts learned and you can put 5 new songs together in 90 minutes and play them at the next show and have them sound as good as everything else on the list. Sure, the patrons at the gigs don't always know, but they realize that something is different when you have a band of higher quality players.

[3shiftgtr]

I've had to bail on a band for more $$. But it is never for an extra hundred or two. It would be an artist gig vs a local thing....like a weekend at $150 a night to play local vs. 3 nights with an artist at $350 a night plus a per diem. And I would not just call and say "sorry", I'd find or help find a sub and do any extra work needed to get the sub ready for the gig.

 

Over all tho', I'm in it for the long haul locally. So in order for me to dump on the locals I play with, it had better be big.

 

The exception is one New Years. I had just started a "houserockin blues" thing with some decent players I had never played with. First couple of gigs thru the summer and the drinking was out of hand, IMHO. Middle of the 3rd set and it is effecting their playing. Then in the middle of the summer they book NYE for peanuts; $150 a man if I recall. {censored}in dumbasses. And no gigs on the books for the fall or early winter. Then come december, they call me for last minute Christmas party, and I was already booked. And that pissed singer dude off.

 

Then the NYE gig came up in that conversation. I said sure cuz I figured that'd be the last hurrah and at the time I had nothing booked. THE NEXT DAY I get a call for a R&B funk band with horns to play some corporates in Dec for a couple hundred a gig and a ballroom on NYE for $600 plus a room. Uh, sorry local dudes. So I called the next day and quit.

 

I said it was the drinking and I found them a sub. Singer dude is still pissed at me and avoids me. That is the only time I dumped on a local for another local.....

[SpaceNorman]

 

I'm first come first served. I've declined band gigs because I was already booked, but I've never declined a gig that's already been booked. I never cancel for a better paying job. The only way I would cancel would be a death in the family.

 

 

 

^^^^ This! I can't imagine making the "multiple bands" thing work any other way. When I commit to take a gig, I commit to take the gig. Commitment don't come with an "unless something better comes along" clause.

 

As a bandleader - I'd can anybody who screws me on a date for any reason short of a bonafide medical or family emergency.

[StratGuy22]

^^^^ This! I can't imagine making the "multiple bands" thing work any other way. When I commit to take a gig, I commit to take the gig. Commitment don't come with an "unless something better comes along" clause. As a bandleader - I'd can anybody who screws me on a date for any reason short of a bonafide medical or family emergency.

 

One day, was the day of hell. I was booked to mix a band. $300 An awesome fun gig we always do came up. Sorry, booked already (my cut would be $400) I got asked to do sound for Grad, in the arena. A good gig, done at 11, a $2,000 payday.

 

Like I said. When I'm booked I'm booked. I didn't like turning down the gig, and believe me, it was hard to turn down the $2,000 job. But I don't want to be known as the "You're booked, unless something better comes alone" guy. That's no way to run a business. So this year, I'm active seeking out Grad. It's in May, but I'll be hitting them up in Sept to put the bug in their ear, it could become a yearly event for me, which is what I'm looking for. More high paying annual events on my calendar.

 

But people are starting to learn, that you often can't come to me a week before the event, and hope to get sound. Most weekends I'm booked or if I'm on a "me"'weekend it's because I won't be in town.

 

So that wouldn't work for me as a musician, always chasing the higher dollar. If he had something booked already and couldn't make the gig, you guys should feel free to do the job with a sub. But once you have a gig on the books, he should be committed.

 

Good job, letting him go. You need someone who is on th same page.

 

[tim_7string]

 

As far as having a Ferrari- I want the best players possible. They learn faster and are more consistent from gig to gig. I want seasoned players who are pros, even if it's part time professional. It's just easier to work with people like that. Players who come into rehearsal with all their parts learned and you can put 5 new songs together in 90 minutes and play them at the next show and have them sound as good as everything else on the list. Sure, the patrons at the gigs don't always know, but they realize that something is different when you have a band of higher quality players.

 

 

Same here. I need musicians that are at my level or the gig is going to suck. That's one of the main reasons I won't put up with the "I'm yours, until something better comes along" b.s. Our band has a specific style and sound. We don't just play the same crap in the same way as all the other bands do in my area. I could water it down to make it easier for subs to just go on autopilot, but since I actually take pride in the sound of my group, I don't do that. We have certain songs that need to be played a certain way. It's far better to have the same three guys do them then to insert bass player and drummer and hope for the best.

 

And since we only had subs twice and in both cases they were excellent musicians, it's worked out well and should attract similar-level talent in the future if we need it.

[MartinC]

That's what it comes down to. I just lost a great player-he up and moved to Texas. Now he's gigging every night. Another guy in my group is also a full timer. Very hard to advance beyond a certain level with his schedule, but you can't blame him. I'm the one holding it back. I'm the one with the cushy day gig, who doesn't want to gig every night. I think if you have guys who are full time pros, who are in demand because of their skills, you can't expect them to make a part time situation a priority. Their priority is earning a living playing. For me, that's fine at this point. It was a problem years ago when I had more ambition for the band. But, at the end of the day, I wanted to play with the very best people I could. That was my priority.

 

 

 

it's very hard to support a full time player in a part time band.

 

QUOTE]

[dan88z]

Interview with the new guy went well last night. Rehearsal starts next week!