Members Amory_tarr Posted January 11, 2004 Members Share Posted January 11, 2004 I'm looking around right now, but does anyone have any useful info on any good quality middle of the line products? Not looking to use midi pickups or anything though. I know a few things like the fireworks and others have it built into them, but i'm hesitent on switching delay and quality of normal effects compared to like a g-force for example. Also for you 'tiders...how well do they accomplish this, and specifically the GTR4000...how does it do in terms of sound and in terms of DSP power needed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Banzini Posted January 11, 2004 Members Share Posted January 11, 2004 frostwave makes some really good stuff. lovetone, though not middle of the line, made some killer pedals that work and sound great. of course, theres the ehx mirco synth, but its got some tracking issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MorePaul Posted January 11, 2004 Members Share Posted January 11, 2004 Well,it depends on what you really want and your use. The thing about the hex pickup is you kinda sorta need it to allow various forms of processing where you want to act on the basic parameters of a guitar's voice (ie the waveshape of an individual string, individual envelopes, etc) There is a limit to what you can do with a monophonic in As far as the "multi" route - often, it's just that if you are using a gen purpose DSP...you might as well program in other effects, esp if you already have those algs in your library.It's kinda "well, we went to this time and expense so we might as well"....The effect with just "synth" patches might NOT be considerably cheaper as the HW overhead isn't reduced. When you say "synth" I assume you mean "synthlike", but that begs the question "when you say synth-like, what kinds of sounds are you looking for"...As I'm sure you realize, a synth is sort of a general purpose generator too...so a "synth sound" can be any number of things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Amory_tarr Posted January 11, 2004 Author Members Share Posted January 11, 2004 Originally posted by MorePaul a "synth sound" can be any number of things I agree, if you listen to the verse to "The Hollow" by A Perfect Circle, that's what i'm looking for. I now there is only so much i can accomplish without special pickups, but that's not a route i want to venture. I'll try to cut the song in a little 5-second clip and post on digitalsoundplanet tomorrow...to describe it, it's almost like a typical "rave synth sound" Amory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sonik Posted January 11, 2004 Members Share Posted January 11, 2004 The Hoover sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Amory_tarr Posted January 11, 2004 Author Members Share Posted January 11, 2004 Originally posted by sonik777 The Hoover sound? I'm not familiar with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jimfowler Posted January 11, 2004 Members Share Posted January 11, 2004 man, that is one catchy song... um, it would appear that the guitarist isn't using anything other than a guitar and what i'd guess is some very high gain (almost so much gain that it only barely resembles a guitar) and a touch of delay to sort of smear things...maybe a little chorus. if i were you, i'd screw around with some modulations...something you can already get your hands on...and turn the gain up as far as you can. maybe roll the tone off on your guitar to remove the attack. -jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members somata Posted January 11, 2004 Members Share Posted January 11, 2004 just to add to the above, you might look into an ebow, which lets you create synthlike sounds and eliminates any picking attack... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jimfowler Posted January 11, 2004 Members Share Posted January 11, 2004 oh damn...you know what i want? i want an ebow that can work more than one string at the time. if it weren't so damn expensive, i'd buy six of them and construct some ugly hunk of {censored} that would allow me to sustain chords...man, that would be rad. -jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sonik Posted January 11, 2004 Members Share Posted January 11, 2004 The "Hoover" sound is the rave sound. Its a stabbing saw wave form that supposedly sounds like a vacum cleaner, hence the hoover title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Amory_tarr Posted January 11, 2004 Author Members Share Posted January 11, 2004 Originally posted by sonik777 The "Hoover" sound is the rave sound. Its a stabbing saw wave form that supposedly sounds like a vacum cleaner, hence the hoover title. Thanks, that's somewhat what i want to get, and mix that with a little more guitar-ish sound. The hollow was the closest thing on hand, and that's a little too guitar sounding, but somewhere between the two examples. Anyways, Billy Howerdel is using a Fireworx and a DSP2101 live for that kind of stuff. But studio wise i have no idea. The Fireworx could work, but i couldn't get around the time delay in it. Hence the search for a unit that can get this sound, that is not a huge contemplation of other effects. Anyone heard/know anything about the (EMU) Ensoniq products? Specifically the DP/2 or DP/pro? Otherwise any other suggestions? Thanks,Amory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MorePaul Posted January 11, 2004 Members Share Posted January 11, 2004 DO you have a sample of the sound you want (I'm not really that familiar with Perfect Circle) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Amory_tarr Posted January 11, 2004 Author Members Share Posted January 11, 2004 ARG, Cubase won't support the file for some reason. Anyone know how to crop a 5 second piece out of a music file? for mac? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members simeon Posted January 12, 2004 Members Share Posted January 12, 2004 dude - there is an ebow that works on all six strings at once and you don't have to hold it with your picking hand - it's called the Sustainiac and it replaces a single coil pickup on your guitar (or one of the coils in a humbucker) i have one of them on one of my guitars and it's the best thing EVER! check out their site... http://www.sustainiac.com/ when it's off, the unit still works like a normal guitar pickup, so you don't have to sacrifice one of the sounds on your guitar it has four modes of operation, which will give you sustained notes that are either "original", "one octave up", "two octaves up", or "a random harmonic" it's fantastic for simulating natural feedback (like you'd get from standing in front of your amp), or creating synthalike sounds that sustain forever. i found an amazing sound that you can get if you roll off the volume and tone on your guitar slightly and set the Sustainiac in "one octave up" mode - you can get these amazing swells, like a horn player might get... oh, and it works on all 6 strings at once! cheers sim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sonik Posted January 12, 2004 Members Share Posted January 12, 2004 There is also the fernandes sustainer basically same thing as the sustainiac. I wonder what the sound differences really are.... http://www.fernandesguitars.com/sustainer/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members simeon Posted January 12, 2004 Members Share Posted January 12, 2004 i just checked out the fernandez website and their sustainer seems to work in exactly the same way as the sustainiac, so i'm guessing the two units will sound the same... price, options and availablity will be the deciding factors if you want to buy one, i guess... cheers sim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MorePaul Posted January 12, 2004 Members Share Posted January 12, 2004 Sustainiac (Manic Music) actually supplied Fernandes the sustainers back in the day (as it did Hamer et al) The current Fernandes, while no longer supplied by the sustainiac guys is supposed to be a copy of the older sustainiac design. It's also good to note that the model C mechanical sustainer has been released. I've had a model B and the electromags...the mechanical ones DO sound better and don't really require installation into a guitarThe downside is extra cables...but they do sound better It' also important to point out that with all these units you don't get a pure hexaphonic sustain...chords tend to "collapse" into a single resonance (you guys that currently have them know what I'm talking about - if you can express it better, please post!) That's not to sy that they aren't excellent or very useful, but it is something to keep in mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Amory_tarr Posted January 12, 2004 Author Members Share Posted January 12, 2004 That looks interesting, but i'm looking at something more in terms of for a rack etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members simeon Posted January 12, 2004 Members Share Posted January 12, 2004 have you considered a VG-88? the version 2 software gives you all those classic saw wave and square wave synthy sounds - and no tracking delay! sim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MorePaul Posted January 12, 2004 Members Share Posted January 12, 2004 I took a listen to the Perfect Circle website (they have that tune up) and, if it's the sound I think you are reffing, it sounds like a ring mod Ever listen to John McLaughlin or old hardcore Devo (Mongoloid days - say their version of "satisfaction")? Those are examples of ringmod with a little more minimal sonic environment that might help you determine if this is something you are interested in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MorePaul Posted January 12, 2004 Members Share Posted January 12, 2004 The VG-88 is pretty cool - I've only played one in a shop setting, but very neat. But that is going to require the GK-2But they are coolAT what, specifically, is bothering you about using the GK-2 system? AT...is that ringmod sound what you are SPECIFICALLY interested in, or are you more interested in going in that ;direction' (ie you want to substantially alter the guitar's sound into less guitar0-ike thinks) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Amory_tarr Posted January 12, 2004 Author Members Share Posted January 12, 2004 That A Perfect Circle sample is not exactly what i'm after, just a general direction. I'm probably more leaning towards the saw wave type of stuff. I really want to just get something that i can rackmount and incorporate easily without the use of external pickups or something that is not rackmountable etc. Is there anything out there for what i'm trying to do, or is it going to be difficult to find something like this givenwhat i'm looking for? I'm researching the Ensoniq line of products, maybe one of those could work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MorePaul Posted January 12, 2004 Members Share Posted January 12, 2004 Any other sonic examples?"synth" is just such an open field" The thing about a lot of the electronic dance sounds is the use of resonant filter (like the classic dance sound where the resonance is gradually increased so the line gets a more aggressive, squelchy sound) In practice, hooking up a GK-2 is really no more complex or time consuming than plugging in a standard guitar.There are rackmount guit synth units avail, so that might be an option Without moving to a hex system, you are going to be somewhat limited...waveshping will have to be, for the most part, monophonic (ie no chords)..though you can fake some of it with pitch shifting and some overdrives Something in general about radically altering the sound of a guitar....It tends to work counter to "plug and play""I want a box I can just plug my guitar into and sound like a synth" has been a mantra of guitar players ever since synthesizers became popular (and that pursuit drove companies like ARP into the ground)There are myriad technical problems (some of which are obviated by hex pickups, some of which aren't)ANDThere is a general lack of understanding by many guitar players ass to what synthesis is all about...ie they have't really thought through the nature of the sounds. It's a richer problem that one might first think I often find guitar players who are experiemnting with synth or synth-like effects are not happy with how these news sounds react to their playing...they still want to play like a guitar player, but they aren't taking into account the nature of the new sound...often, they will confuse this with "tracking" errors when really it's the nature of the sound, not the "tracking" that is to blame In general you may want to look at the guitar signal in terms of classic subtractive synthesis (this is the architecture that most analog synths will use, though there are others...and when people say "analog synth" they often mean subtractive synthesis) Think about it in terms of1)Basic Waveshape(the osc of a synth) 2)Waveshaping/timbre adjustment over time (the filter and the filter envelope) 3) Volume changes over time (the Amplifier and amp envelope) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MorePaul Posted January 12, 2004 Members Share Posted January 12, 2004 I'm thinking the first step is to assemble a few more sound examples to get an idea of what you want to do. Then listen to what those sounds are doing (try applying the subtractive synth concept mentioned above) BEFORE worrying about specific units....ie get an idea of WHAT you WANT to do more concretely, then we can look at HOW (what products) can do that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Amory_tarr Posted January 13, 2004 Author Members Share Posted January 13, 2004 Originally posted by MorePaul I'm thinking the first step is to assemble a few more sound examples to get an idea of what you want to do. @ 10 seconds Into @ 20 seconds Into I'll look to see if anything else jumps out at me, plus do some looking around tomorrow instead of that project:eek:. Thanks for all of your help BTW... If i had the funds then i'd definitly look into some of the Nord stuff, but that's not practical for me, especially considering that this is not going to be my main focus, just something that i would like to use in a bridge or as texturing etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.