Singing Pet Peeves.... what are yours?

[rockerdiva]

 

Sorry if this sounds jerkish, but as a guitarist I have a pet peeve about singers wanting to sing songs outside the original key, and just expecting the players to follow along no matter what. For guitar-centric tunes, sometimes this works and sometimes it doesn't. Sure, a guitar player can capo a tune in C up to C# with no problems, but if the singer wants to take it down to Bb and there are a lot of embellishments involving open C and G chords, it's a completely different story.

 

 

I'm the lead singer. We routinely move songs to accomodate my range. If moving it ruins the sound of the song or makes it too difficult for us to play, and I just can't do it in the original key, we scrap the tune. There are a few that I am singing maybe a whole step higher or lower than I might like, just to make it easy on the guys who may have already known the tune in the original key. I don't like doing that because the vocals aren't as good as they could be, but if the vocals are still good, I'll do it.

[rockerdiva]

And I hate that acrobatic, R and B, Mariah Carey, show off every note that you have got style! Not that I could pull it off if I tried, but I still think it's way too much. Over the years I have had a few (admittedly completely naive) people ask me why I don't try out for American Idol or some such thing. I'm like, first of all, I'm way too old (44), and secondly, I'd be laughed out of the audition room! That doesn't mean I can't sing. I have been gigging for 20+ years. But I have a normal voice. A good one - people tend to think it is strong and with a good range to it, though they would probably be surprised at how narrow my actual range is. Again, it's all about singing the song in the right key for your instrument ...

[Steverino]

I'm the lead singer. We routinely move songs to accomodate my range. If moving it ruins the sound of the song or makes it too difficult for us to play, and I just can't do it in the original key, we scrap the tune.

 

Common sense emerges.

 

 

Oh, my peeve would be vocalists who start yakking before the song is over.

[ChristianRock]

Many years ago, through vocal exercises, I got to the point that I could do Queensrÿche and Judas Priest as well as go very low.

But guess what? I'm just not into singing that high anymore, and there's a "sweet spot" to my voice on any given song where it just sounds right. I think that can be said of any singer. Working with a band that is willing to make the song sound its best and isn't just worried about "how can I look better than everybody else around me" like a lot of guitar players is worth gold and can truly make a difference.

 

I was in a band once where they had a female singer before me and the guitar player refused to change the keys of the songs for me. Well, that didn't work out, and that band now doesn't even exist anymore - after I left they averaged a different singer every year for like 5 years and then just gave up. That guitar player will spend the rest of his life giving lessons and bitching about how unfair it is that a guitar player like him never made it.

 

Guitar players need this reality check: if your singer isn't sounding good either because he/she is not good, or because he/she is not singing where he/she is comfortable, you're not gonna make it as a band.

 

So I guess my biggest singing pet peeve is guitar players who don't play well with other musicians

 

Second biggest pet peeve as a singer is drummers - 99% of them don't know the meaning of the word "precision". I'm using a drum machine on my recordings now for a reason...

[Bajazz]

 

Like it or not, the lead singer is usually the defining factor in the personality of the band. Care must be taken to insure that he or she sounds the best they possibly can. If this means changing keys, and often does, that's what must be done.

The vocalist is another band member, not a god. I think he should practice too.

 

We have now established our disagreement on this issue. In stead of going on back and forth I challenge you to answer this:

 

How could I go from having a short range into being able to go deeper than Johhny Cash and higher than AC/DC?

[baimun]

And I hate that acrobatic, R and B, Mariah Carey, show off every note that you have got style! Not that I could pull it off if I tried, but I still think it's way too much. Over the years I have had a few (admittedly completely naive) people ask me why I don't try out for American Idol or some such thing....

 

I know this is off the path of my original post... but there are many things American Idol doesn't want people to know about how their show is run. It is a TV show first... and a talent show second.

 

They don't have enough qualified producer/talent scouts to actually listen to every single one of the hundreds-of-thousands of people who audition each year, so the very first audition is basically a luck-of-the-draw shot.

 

Example: In Chicago the auditions were held at Soldier field and they had maybe a dozen tents set up. Only the middle three tents actually had producers with the "golden tickets" to let good, bad, and weird selections through to see the celebrity judges. The other 9 or so tents were "thanks for auditioning, try again next year." That's why people like Jordan Sparks had to audition 4 or 5 times in different cities before she got a second audition. It's also to keep from getting the best of every city all in one swoop.

 

I was too old to try out, but I took my oldest daughter who had been singing in front of festival crowds and even bands from the age of 12, when she was 18. We spent the night in the stadium with many other people who were trying out and so many people were gathering in groups to sing in the round, or with an acoustic guitar, it was pretty evident how talented so many people were. I watched every single one of them go into the outer tents, do a great tryout, and was turned away. I watched people who were marginally talented get through from being in the middle tents.

 

The producers didn't even try to be subtle about it... the middle three tents had the stacks of yellow sheets, and the other tables had none.

[Bajazz]

And it's true that a skinny guy can't become a hulk too (w/o pharmaceutical help, that is).

There is lots of examples that slim men grows big muscles. But very few men have a big muscular body without pumping iron.

[careful now]

Common sense emerges. Oh, my peeve would be vocalists who start yakking before the song is over.

 

even worse, i have had singers who get on stage won't shut up and it cuts into the set list.

 

a microphone isn't a free pass to tell your life story. no one cares, just sing!

[SpaceNorman]

3) LSD. Get over yourself and act like a human being. So you can carry a tune in a bucket. Hooray!

 

Damn, I gotta start hanging out in your neck of the woods! I ain't never seen a singer actually carry anything before!!!!!

 

The SpaceNorman

Keyboard Player and Owner of the PA and Lights

[careful now]

Damn, I gotta start hanging out in your neck of the woods! I ain't never seen a singer actually carry anything before!!!!! The SpaceNorman Keyboard Player and Owner of the PA and Lights

 

isn't that the truth!

 

i could be playing some dive in reseda, but some singers act like it's madison square garden, showing up late with their little entourage, and then leaving early with the same, acting like a "rock star" the entire time. and most of these putzes aren't nearly as talented as they thing they are.

 

guess who does the bulk of loading in and out? the tiny keyboard chick (me).

[SevenString]

Damn, I gotta start hanging out in your neck of the woods! I ain't never seen a singer actually carry anything before!!!!! The SpaceNorman Keyboard Player and Owner of the PA and Lights

 

I hear ya. I never want to be that guy, ever.

 

I like to show up early to help with equipment. I'd feel too guilty if I just showed up, sang, then left. That would be pretty lame to say the least.

 

No, if I can make a band-mate's experience better by helping schlep some gear, so much the better.

 

But man, I have heard some doozies in terms of excuses from other singers.

[Al Koehn]

Hey, I've got a pet peeve concerning singers. I took some friends over 50 miles to hear a band I had heard and liked a lot. When we got there the band had been on for a while, but the place was almost empty. (about 30 people) The lead singer was obviously pissed and let us know it. His attitude and singing were not good because he felt more people should have shown up. Not only that, he made us feel it was our fault although we drove the 50 miles, we were buying drinks, and we had paid the cover.

 

The more he complained the less we responded to their show. The less we responded to their show, the worse their attitude. We left after several songs. I've been an entertainer for a lot of years, and I'm aware of how much a responsive audience can turn us on and help our performance, but I still always tried to do the best I could at the time, regardless of audience response. Any comments or opinions about this?

 

Al

[careful now]

Hey, I've got a pet peeve concerning singers. I took some friends over 50 miles to hear a band I had heard and liked a lot. When we got there the band had been on for a while, but the place was almost empty. (about 30 people) The lead singer was obviously pissed and let us know it. His attitude and singing were not good because he felt more people should have shown up. Not only that, he made us feel it was our fault although we drove the 50 miles, we were buying drinks, and we had paid the cover. The more he complained the less we responded to their show. The less we responded to their show, the worse their attitude. We left after several songs. I've been an entertainer for a lot of years, and I'm aware of how much a responsive audience can turn us on and help our performance, but I still always tried to do the best I could at the time, regardless or audience response. Any comments or opinions about this? Al

 

i heard stories about when chris isaak was starting out. even if he was playing to just the bartender and the cocktail waitress, he gave it his all. he figured that if he won over just one person as a new fan, then it was worth it.

 

to me, that is a great, professional attitude. there is absolutely no excuse for putting on a poor show because of a bad turnout.

[Al Koehn]

One of the most important things I work with my students on is extending their high range This takes work and time, but it pays off. Most of my students extend their high range an octave or much more, and continue to add more notes as their muscles strengthen and coordinate. The singer should always be working to get better, and this certainly includes extending the range. But this takes time. All I'm saying is if your singer sounds like he/she is straining badly to hit notes in a particular song it doesn't help the band's image or the singer's voice, and perhaps a key change is in order until they get their range up to the task. This takes work and time. and won't happen quickly. They need to find a good teacher.

 

I believe the singer should work constantly to improve. You're right. Too many of them choose to cop out. I certainly don't buy that the singer "is a god."

 

There are many factors which create resonance and the size of the vocal cords contributes to this. However the fact still remains that a soprano, cannot sing low bass or tenor notes, and a bass will not sound like a tenor even if he sings just as high. I agree that transposing a song to fit the singer's range can damage the energy of the song if it is taken too low. However the right key for any singer to sound the best and create the most energy and excitement varies with the current existing physical abilities of that singer.

 

As to your question: the chances of your developing a range that goes as low as Johnny Cash and as high as AC/DC are about as good as winning the 100 million dollar lottery. Johnny Cash would never have attempted to sing as high, and try to sound like Dave Evans or Brian Johnson, and they could never cover Johnny Cash in his original keys. Johnny Cash was a bass and Dave and Brian are high tenors. The size of the vocal chords does dictate how high or low we can sing (especially how low) and still sound like we want to. Yes, a bass can often sing as high as a high tenor, but he does this by extending his falsetto, and it sounds like a bass singing in his falsetto, not a tenor. Once you figure out where the lowest note is you can comfortably sing, then you can go from there to extend the range upward to amazing high notes through exercises, especially with a good teacher.

[Bajazz]

 

As to your question: the chances of your developing a range that goes as low as Johnny Cash and as high as AC/DC are about as good as winning the 100 million dollar lottery. Johnny Cash would never have attempted to sing as high, and try to sound like Dave Evans or Brian Johnson, and they could never cover Johnny Cash in his original keys. Johnny Cash was a bass and Dave and Brian are high tenors. The size of the vocal chords does dictate how high or low we can sing (especially how low) and still sound like we want to. Yes, a bass can often sing as high as a high tenor, but he does this by extending his falsetto, and it sounds like a bass singing in his falsetto, not a tenor. Once you figure out where the lowest note is you can comfortably sing, then you can go from there to extend the range upward to amazing high notes through exercises, especially with a good teacher.

Again, classical bass and baritones can have beautiful high notes, without going to falsetto. But the problem for them is technique as their repertoire haven't had any notes in that are, so they doesn't have that technique. BTW, I think Johnny Cash was considered Baritone. I'm too, but it took me time to get down to those low notes. When I sing high pitched songs, such as AC/DC i don't use falsetto unless for effect.

 

I have been able to sing higher than high tenor C for a long time in moderate volums, but recently I joined a band who plays AC/DC, Iron Maiden, Motorhead etc.. So at my first practice I realized my volume was way to low, cause I've only nailed the SLS principles who works fine for pop, but not at all for heavy metal. When I sing the songs without straining, the volume is way to low and there is no energy. When the energy level is OK, I strain, but less for each practice. So I work with this now. I've found some tricks to help: Stand up straight, head a bit upwards, use lot's of support (called power push in heavy metal terms) and visualizing techniques. It also helps to "place" the tone forward and "thinning" out the sound. Another great excercise is to sing lot's in falsetto, it seems to help strengthening the full voice upprt tones.

[Dr.Innovation]

Just a thought, Peter Gabriel has always had a deep voice and he can do counter-tenor notes....

[Al Koehn]

Good discussion here. Lots of great input to think about. Thanks.

 

Al

[SpaceNorman]

I hear ya. I never want to be that guy, ever. But man, I have heard some doozies in terms of excuses from other singers.

 

Many bands ago - we had a vocalist named Dave who was both shameless and transparent in his efforts to give the illusion that he was actually helping with schlepping without actually lifting or carrying anything. Our sound man (Big Jim - a great sound guy AND human forklift) coined a phrase during one load-in for that behavior when he shouted in a strained voice to clear a path - thinking that he was carrying something really heavy, we jumped out of the way and opened the door for him - only to watch him round the corner and enter the room carrying a single helium balloon and tell us he had a "Dave Load" coming in.

 

Ever since - anybody who walks past carrying a music stand or a single mic stand (while the rest of us are lugging cabinets, amp or keyboard cases) gets razzed mercilessly about the "Dave Load" they're lugging.

[3red]

saying 'yeah' or 'baby' alot

[eeglug]

I'm not fond of cookie monster vocals...

[Dr.Innovation]

 

I'm not fond of cookie monster vocals...

 

 

I didn't know Dijkembe Mutumbo sings? Hmm.

[Branwyn]

Pet Peeves-

1. Jaw wobble vibrato. Vibrato comes from the way you move the breath thru your cords, not your jaw. Moving the jaw creates tension in the jaw, face, and throat and is thus detrimental to your tone. I want to grab people who do this by the mouth and hold them still.

2. Vocal masturbation, i.e. the Whitney-wanking mentioned earlier. Best illustrated by R&B singers asked to sing the Star Spangled Banner at baseball games and they do it at 1/4 tempo and do so many gymnastics the whole way thru it becomes nearly unrecognizable. It's the national anthem and it's actually supposed to be at a medium uptempo speed. STFU and sing the song and get off the field. No one cares about your vocal Yngwie-like wanking.

 

As to the singer's range vs. the band argument, it is a give and take thing IMO. Any singer should work to expand their range, but it is eventually a finite instrument, and unfortunately usually w/a narrower range than what sounds good w/a guitar. In a way I feel kinda bad/boxed in by that, because as a singer, my instrument is more limited than my bandmates'. I have a good 5 octave range, but I'm a lyric soprano, and warbling high Ds up in the stratosphere like I learned in my opera arias just ain't gonna sound right with the Irish folk guys I play with. So it's my responsibility to work on my low range. I'll never be an low alto...I'll always be more Joni Mitchell than Carole King. But I will work on getting better. Conversely, I need the folks I play with to be willing to slap a capo on when I'm at the limit of my current range of what sounds good. I can work, but it's not an instantaneous transformation, and b/c I have small cords, no matter what I'll only ever get so low.

[Dr.Innovation]

 

Pet Peeves- 1. Jaw wobble vibrato. Vibrato comes from the way you move the breath thru your cords, not your jaw. Moving the jaw creates tension in the jaw, face, and throat and is thus detrimental to your tone. I want to grab people who do this by the mouth and hold them still. 2. Vocal masturbation, i.e. the Whitney-wanking mentioned earlier. Best illustrated by R&B singers asked to sing the Star Spangled Banner at baseball games and they do it at 1/4 tempo and do so many gymnastics the whole way thru it becomes nearly unrecognizable. It's the national anthem and it's actually supposed to be at a medium uptempo speed. STFU and sing the song and get off the field. No one cares about your vocal Yngwie-like wanking.

 

 

I was going to bring up the same points but you nailed it better than I could have said it:thu:

 

Most ALL RnB acts do the erratic moving of the head to create the voice changes that decent singers do with their breath..

[Lee Flier]

Hey, I've got a pet peeve concerning singers. I took some friends over 50 miles to hear a band I had heard and liked a lot. When we got there the band had been on for a while, but the place was almost empty. (about 30 people) The lead singer was obviously pissed and let us know it. His attitude and singing were not good because he felt more people should have shown up. Not only that, he made us feel it was our fault although we drove the 50 miles, we were buying drinks, and we had paid the cover. The more he complained the less we responded to their show. The less we responded to their show, the worse their attitude. We left after several songs. I've been an entertainer for a lot of years, and I'm aware of how much a responsive audience can turn us on and help our performance, but I still always tried to do the best I could at the time, regardless of audience response. Any comments or opinions about this?

 

Oh yeah, totally agree. That singer had no right to have that attitude - the people he's mad at are the ones who aren't even there! There is no excuse, ever, to not give your all to whoever is there, and you'll make fans for life if you can play for 10 of them the same way you'd play for 10,000.

 

Case in point, my band played a gig once over the 4th of July weekend, and nearly everyone was out of town or entertaining relatives or friends. There were literally like 6 people in the club. But we went out and played our asses off, didn't treat it any differently from any other show. And at the end of the show, every one of those 6 people came up and bought a CD, and every one of them subsequently went to more shows. They were so appreciative that we gave our all for them, and not too many bands can say they had a 100% sale to target ratio.

 

As far as I'm concerned there's no point in getting up on a stage at all if you're not going to give it everything you've got, regardless of the situation. Might as well stay home and watch TV.

[Bryan316]

Cigarette smoke. I can't WAIT until smoking is finally uncool and completely ran out of society.

 

 

Sound guys who flip out when I want to use MY microphone. Sorry you mediocre prick, but my mic is better than your beat-to-{censored} house mics, and I prefer my audience to be able to UNDERSTAND my singing. That, and I ain't using the same mic that death metal cookie monster yogurt gargler just used before me. I ain't a germophobe, but you can't tell me to ignore the crabs that jumped from his Kerry King beard and started crawling on the windscreen!

 

{censored} monitors. Why, oh why, can't somebody just order up some BFM full-range monitors? Please? I'll build em FOR you if you just let me!!!

 

And of course....

 

 

 

 

...ugly chicks in the front row.