Members ned911 Posted April 15, 2005 Members Share Posted April 15, 2005 We have a small 10x15 rehearsal space. PA is an old Randal RM80 with 2 small speakers (10") on speaker stands about ear level. Trying to find the best placement, right now I have the speakers pointed into the space but if the mic is placed inside the room we get feedback. Should I lower the speakers? is there anything I can do on the mixer with EQ? Should I place 1 speaker low by the drummer at a right angle and the other lower in front of the band? Appreciate any help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted April 15, 2005 Members Share Posted April 15, 2005 I'd try the speakers on the floor positioned like floor monitors. Try to make sure the mic isn't facing toward the speakers. Also, no matter what you do you really can't get a whole lot of volume in a little room like that, so turn down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ned911 Posted April 15, 2005 Author Members Share Posted April 15, 2005 Thanks for the response. Got the power amp at quarter volume (9 oclock), bass and guitar are not very lou either. Drum shield is probably next. I noticed when the mic is 90 degrees to the speakers there is less feedback. Ned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Singin' Dave Posted April 15, 2005 Members Share Posted April 15, 2005 We have a small 10x15 rehearsal space. PA is an old Randal RM80 with 2 small speakers (10") on speaker stands about ear level. You say you're placing the speakers at ear level. Unless you have a wild stage act, your mouth is located about the same height as your ears, right? And you use your mouth to sing into a mic, so, by the transitive property, you are placing your mics at the same level as your speakers in a 150sf room (probably a low ceiling) with a PA that was likely entry level years ago. I'd be surprised if you weren't getting feedback! As GCDEF suggested, try moving those speakers off plane with your mics. If you can't hear your speakers unless they are right up on your ears, it's time for a new PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ned911 Posted May 10, 2005 Author Members Share Posted May 10, 2005 Moved the speakers to the floor but we are still getting insane feedback to the point where it's really hard to get any meanful practice done. We are trying to keep the volume down but need a touch more on the PA for the vocals. Before I run out and buy stuff I don't need... would a 31 band EQ be our best best to eliminate feedback? The front of the room is narrow then widens up. Should we move the drummer to the entrance with the amps and PA speakers against the back wall? Ceiling is high btw. Ned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members unbridled Posted May 10, 2005 Members Share Posted May 10, 2005 Still cant quite visuallize what you got goin on. Set up your backline as you would for a gig. then, set the speakers clear across the room as though you are the "audience" for the speakers. I'd try a behringer feedback destroyer on each vocal mic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members unbridled Posted May 10, 2005 Members Share Posted May 10, 2005 What's the construction of the room? (concrete, wood, etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lucho_84 Posted May 10, 2005 Members Share Posted May 10, 2005 most importantly are the transducers and space imo. What type of mic are you using and what speakers? A little absorbtion or diffusion might help as will the eq, but answer the questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ned911 Posted May 10, 2005 Author Members Share Posted May 10, 2005 Room is basically sheet metal, ceiling is insulated, with 10oz painters drop cloth covering the walls. Rounded the corners. Current mic is a EV ( can't remember the model) trying to get the singer to spring for a SM58. Speakers are from Steel Sound (10" main) which are basically reall cheap. Bought them for jamming at home with a couple of friends (no drummer). Mixer is a Behringer with 4 mic and 2 stereo inputs. This is basically old parts and budget stuff which I'm trying to make work in the short term. I grabbed my MXR 10 band and will try it a lunch before buying a 15 or 31 band EQ. Previous research on this forum didn't produce anything favorable on the B Feedback Destroyer. Appreciate the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kayak Posted May 10, 2005 Members Share Posted May 10, 2005 First, I want to double check that you have the speakers (whether they be on the floor or up on stands) in front of you and FACING BACK AT YOU (therefore facing the back of the mic), as opposed to behind, facing you AND the FRONT of the mic. OK, if you already some kind of eq, put that into the system. Turn the system up to feed back, then back it off a little to where you no longer have feedback. Now, on the eq (which should initially be set flat, no boosts, no cuts), bring up one frequency at a time until it feeds back. If it sounds the same as the initial feedback that you heard, cut that frequency down. Otherewise return it to flat, and try the next frequency. Once you find the right frequency and have cut it, turn up the PA again until another frequency feeds back. If the same frequency feedsback, then you've done just about all you can with the existing system and setup. If a different frequency feedsback, repeat the above process. Continue repeating this process until you have about three or four frequencies cut, or until no matter how much you cut a specific frequency, it continues to be the feedback frequency. At this point, if you go any further, your just reaching the point of diminishing returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Old Steve Posted May 10, 2005 Members Share Posted May 10, 2005 Originally posted by lucho_84 most importantly are the transducers and space imo. What type of mic are you using and what speakers? A little absorbtion or diffusion might help as will the eq, but answer the questions. That was my question. The answer of "EV (can't remember the model)" doesn't tell us much. Do you still get feedback with the SM58? If the EV has a wide pickup pattern, your feedback issues will continue. The SM58 has a tighter pattern and that may eliminate some of the issues (assuming you've moved the speakers as the others have said). Are your gains cranked up really high? The main output is at 1/4 turn...maybe that's the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted May 10, 2005 CMS Author Share Posted May 10, 2005 The bad news is that the room is tiny. The good news is that it would be relatively cheap to completely treat it acoustically. Even just putting up a drop ceiling with acoustic tiles would help, and then get some cheap but heavy fabric and make some drapes to cover all possible wall space...use plenty so the material can be deeply pleated. If you've got some spare cash after this buy some Auralex Mega Lenrd bass traps to install in the corners. Absolutely get sound control for the drums...hydraulic or pinstripe heads, dampening pads, light sticks. Hang moving blankets over whatever you can muster to surround the kit as high as you dare. But first add up the cost for any plan and compare it with the cost of a wired Shure PSM200 IEM. You can buy the beltpacks alone and hardwire them. Later they can be used without modification with their wireless system. IEM's are really the best solution for a room like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ned911 Posted May 13, 2005 Author Members Share Posted May 13, 2005 Problem solved with the dual 31 band EQ. I really appreciate all the help. Now to convince the band to go to IEMs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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