Members rickrock Posted January 16, 2006 Members Share Posted January 16, 2006 Rock band, 4 pc. typically 200-300 person shows. Right now we use a mackie 24x4 mixer with nice jbl's 700 series and crest and crown power. Are the preamps (and other internal quality features) on the mixwiz3 that much better than the mackie? The mixwiz is desireable from a size standpoint, and the on board effects may be useful, but mostly I want to reduce size and set up time. I'm thinking, put the mixwiz3 in a mixer-on-top effects rack, rotate the back panel down, get the mixer more permanently set up with the aux sends, returns, etc. all wired in, so that part is not repeated every gig. Last, I'm thinking, get a patch bay in the back of the rack, to patch into the mixer mic inputs, so I don't have to make like a mechanic and get on my back looking up inside the rack to insert the mic cables in the right spots. So, A, is the convenience and size of the mixwiz3 a compromise on the sound quality over the 24/4, or an improvement in sound quality? And B, I would need a female 16 channel in, 3 or 4 male xlr out (2 to the driverack, and 1 to use that extra "m" out in the mixwiz) patch bay. What's a good one? Does it connect out the back side with short xlr's up to the mixer inputs, or with balanced trs's, and if with trs's is that a bad thing, or at least a complicating factor, e.g., with phantom powered mics? much obligedrickrock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ashivraj Posted January 16, 2006 Members Share Posted January 16, 2006 I prefer the MixWiz for several reasons - more aux sends, better EQ (two swept mids), onboard FX, and *subjectively* better pres. The rackmountability is definitely a convenience, but are you willing to lose 4 XLR inputs (IIRC the 24-4 has 20 XLRs + 2 stereo)? Are you sure you're not gonna need them at some future point? If you do go with the MW3... I'm fairly sure you can rotate the connector block so that they're facing the back of the rack (rather than the bottom). This eliminates the need for a costly patchbay. If you DO get a patchbay... XLRs are fine with phantom. I personally don't like TRS for phantom use - and anyway, the TRS inputs on *most* mixers don't supply phantom power, they're just line inputs. If you've got more money than time, and are using a snake, get a multi-pin disconnect at the mixer end. That way, everything in the rack stays plugged in; you just have to run your snake and wire the stage end of things (which you'd do anyway). Any way you go, you'll still have to plug stuff in at (at least) one place. If you choose the MW3, I'd just rotate the connector pod to face the back. Hope this helps! AS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted January 16, 2006 Members Share Posted January 16, 2006 AFA quality, IMHO there's not going to be any big leap between the two, and what there is becomes a matter of personal taste. Avoid the patchbay. You'll need to connect every i/o to it for starters, which will require a couple bays, plus the necessary adaptive cabling for all the XLR inputs and outputs. You run risks of damaging the mixer if you patch with phantom on, and eventually someone will do it and potentially take out a channel. Patchbays are good in the studio, but IMHO not very practical live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IsildursBane Posted January 16, 2006 Members Share Posted January 16, 2006 Originally posted by ashivraj If you've got more money than time, and are using a snake, get a multi-pin disconnect at the mixer end. That way, everything in the rack stays plugged in; you just have to run your snake and wire the stage end of things (which you'd do anyway). That's what I'd do. -Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rickrock Posted January 16, 2006 Author Members Share Posted January 16, 2006 Okay, sounds like a solution, but I don't know that term. Is there a link you could post to allow me to read up on the "disconnect". As for facing backwards in the mixer rack, here are two links http://audiopile.net/products/Cases/CU_series_roadracks/CU_series_cutsheet.asp http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pdf/man/m_634105.pdf The first shows a mixer rack, which explains that the depth is 10 units. The second is the mix wix manual, look at p. 8, that shows in a "panel facing back" position, it is 11 units, and pointed down, it is 10 units. What does the "disconnect" do to help me leave stuff (effects, compressors) plugged in when its all shut down, and packed away? Thanks for all the help. And right now I have more time than money, but when I have that money, I'll be prepared!! rickrock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JohnnyGraphic Posted January 16, 2006 Members Share Posted January 16, 2006 If you get one of the racks that have the mixer on top and room for stuff on the bottom, this will help alleviate your patching everything into the mixer at showtime (EQ, FX, Comps etc). However, your mic inputs will be another matter. Since the mic inputs will be facing downward (to the back didn't give me enough room in my rack), you probably don't want to tempt fate and have the mics just hanging down since an errant foot can easily pull your mics from the sockets and cause a big oops during the show or even possible damage to your board. The multipin disconnect looks like a good idea, but perhaps a little too involved(?). What I did (since I just got a MW3) was to rotate the pod downwards and use short 2' mic patch cables attached to the mixer. Then, I routed them over a wooden stick covered with foam weatherstripping that spans the length of the rear of the rack to provide strain relief. Then, when I hook up my mic cables at the gig, I can quickly & easily access the mic cables. It also gives me the option of routing the mic cables over the back of the rack or to just let them hang down. I will try to attach a photo if I can. Hope this helps or at least gives you ideas. JohnnyJohnny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ashivraj Posted January 16, 2006 Members Share Posted January 16, 2006 A multi-pin disconnect is essentially a big connector with lots of pins on it, one for each signal core (so 3 per 'mic' channel - one for each wire). You stick one on the not-stage end of your snake, and build another which is an MPD splitting into several different channels (like the fan-out of a snake). Wire in the fanout end into the rack, and leave the MPD accessible. Then, when you run your snake, all you have to do is connect one connector. BE WARNED, they are extremely labor intensive, so either quite expensive, or a PITA to do yourself. Even without the MPD, you can leave your 'stuff' (effects, compressors) wired up in the rack. So if you're not using the MPD, all you have to do is wire up the inputs from the snake, and the outputs to the snake. Voila. As for the rack depth, you'll need 11U if you want back access - cases do exist. Otherwise, it's mechanic time every time you setup. (EDIT: JohnnyJohnny posted a good idea while I was typing - using a bunch of jumper cables hanging freely. Labelled well, they can be helpful - but you'll still be pulling each cable looking for its number. Maybe you could tape them down to the support in order 1-16 - a poor man's patch panel?) AS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JohnnyGraphic Posted January 16, 2006 Members Share Posted January 16, 2006 Oh, and the on-board effects aren't too shabby either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JohnnyGraphic Posted January 16, 2006 Members Share Posted January 16, 2006 Let me try posting the photos...I resized it to 300 x 225. I hope it gives you an idea of what I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted January 16, 2006 Members Share Posted January 16, 2006 Allot 5 more minutes in yoru setup time to patch in the XLR's. Adding more connections adds more potentials for failures, and more points you need to check to correct same. If your snake doen't have a strain relief, wire tie a loop of tie line to it that you can hook onto your rack, and you'll have no issues with someone inadvertantly tripping and unplugging anything. Everything else just stays patched, and you move the inserts as needed. It's not like you gotta crawl under a 40 channel desk on the dirt now is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rickrock Posted January 16, 2006 Author Members Share Posted January 16, 2006 Thank you all for your help and suggestions. I was pretty sure I wouldn't find an 11u + depth rack. much obligedrickrock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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