Band looking for a PA for practice + small gigs

[mparsons]

Never seen this topic before, eh?

 

Yes, I'm going to say the same things..

 

"small budget"

 

"just for practice, small gigs"

 

"is this kustom package any good?"

 

that you all I am sure LOVE hearing by now

 

Actually no

 

My band has a combined budget of $800, maybe more dollars. We're looking to get a small PA system that'd be good for vocals and a kick drum/ride/splash maybe Used primarily for practice and smaller gigs, 100-150 people at club houses and barns and crap. The genre is metal.

 

What should we get?

 

Thanks!

 

( its very interesting for me to be asking this question, because I know exactly what its like for all of you experienced peoples to read noobish questions like this. Sorry to be a noob and thanks again for your help! )

[GCDEF]

As you say, this topic comes up all the time. Currently there are 5 versions of it on the first page alone. Is there something in all the other answers you're not clear on?

[coyote-1]

I'll take the opportunity to SPAM you:

 

I have a Yamaha EMX-660 powered mixer I'd be willing to sell. 300watts per channel. It has built-in digital effects as well as two 9-band equalizers.

 

I also have a couple floor monitors. You could pick up good PA speakers and a few mics from elsewhere, and be within your budget.

 

If you're in the NYC area and you're interested, shoot me a private message.

 

(I'm not in a hurry to sell, so I like to do these deals in person rather than via eBay or whatever. Greater trust among all concerned.)

[mparsons]

 

Is there something in all the other answers you're not clear on?

 

 

We're a metal band. I'm worried that we'll need more power and volume than what an acoustic or christian rock gig would need.

 

Thanks for the spam Coyote, that sounds like exactly what I want, but we live in the north Atlanta metro area.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Originally posted by mparsons We're a metal band. I'm worried that we'll need more power and volume than what an acoustic or christian rock gig would need.

 

 

And you'd be exactly correct sir. You'll literally need to spend ten times your budget to even get started on a system that will keep up with typical metal levels. Take a quick look at any of the package PA systems selling for $800 to see what it buys you, and note that almost none include any form of monitoring.

 

Always keep in the back of your mind that vocals need to be 3dB or more louder than the rest of the mix, and it takes about double the total wattage used to create that 'rest of the mix' to achieve that. In other words, your 600+ watts worth of backline gear, not including drums, will need well over 1200 watts worth of PA, and that allows no headroom, nor coverage above the drums, nor additional reinforcement via the PA itself for bass, kick, the guitars, etc. In reality the numbers are even more dismal.

 

I've got about 8-10K invested in front-of-house, with about 3,000 watts actually delivered to the speakers, and I'd be driving the system pretty hard to keep up with the typical 100-200w stack and giant bass amp, and I would not guarantee a good mix anyway, since stage volume like this is what destroys any hope of good sound in the audience.

 

Sorry this isn't more positive a message, but I won't blow smoke up your ass....PA is a major investment. Consider renting a good sound company for a gig or two to see what it takes to handle your band well, and go from there.

[Squier Fat Telecaster]

Goto smaller stage amps for starters. No need for 4x12 and 8x10 stacks.

 

Carvin has some reasonable deals.

 

Look for used Peavey.

 

Lots-o-watts.

 

Cheap solution:

 

Buy digital modelers, go direct, use a headphone amp and a mixer and only the drummer will have to deal with noise.

[Guest Anonymous]

Originally posted by telemike Goto smaller stage amps for starters. No need for 4x12 and 8x10 stacks.

Right... however, my dad told me I didn't NEED 60 series tires on the back axel of my first car... being a '57 Chevy with straight 6 and 3 on the tree. Dad was probably right, but man, those Goodrich Radial T/A 60's were bitchin... even if they didn't actually do anything for the handling, preformance, or ride of the car... in-fact I probably shot myself right in the pocketbook with that tire choice... but I was the envy of everyone else... I'm sure of it.

[mparsons]

 

And you'd be exactly correct sir. You'll literally need to spend ten times your budget to even get started on a system that will keep up with typical metal levels. Take a quick look at any of the package PA systems selling for $800 to see what it buys you, and note that almost none include any form of monitoring.

 

 

Thank you. I appreciate the honesty and the realistic point of view.

 

However I am not going for a professional, perfect sound mix ( I would love that though ). If so, I'd be focusing more money into owning an actual venue I could use to profit the system out of, which isn't practical. High school etc.

 

I've heard decent shows with stage volume and a small PA like what we're talking about here. Nothing spectacular and you can't hear the vocals as clearly as you'd like, but for competing with drums it did its job.

 

I'd love to go an all digital route right into PA but that's too much money to invest for my drummer right now. So a smaller sub-1k PA system will have to do.

 

As for smaller stage amps.. we wish, it'd be cheaper and easier but the drums are always a threshold for volume and smaller stuff can't do it.

 

Thanks for all of your help and suggestions.

[Guest Anonymous]

This subject comes up a lot... What PA for the band?

 

I've been thinking... rather than this endless shotgun approach to the same basic questions concerning the same basic subject with much the same basic answers, over, and over, and over (with much the same results)... maybe HC could have a "resource room" or "sticky"... something where folks could:

 

1) Post what they are running for a PA, and:

2) What sorts of work they do with the PA, and:

3) Comment on what seems adequate, what seems like over-kill, and what could use more beef, and:

4) Comment on why they chose what they chose.

 

And give brutally honest assessments.

 

Then, when the "What PA for the band?" question comes up, the inquiring minds could access the resource room... read what various folks are currently using, why they use it, and what they wish they were using instead.

 

I would take the time to supply as unbiased and comprehensive of a detailed report as I can reasonably muster of what I personally use and why I made the choices if such a resource venue was made available.

 

I suggest the rules of conduct could be:

 

1) Post the gear.

2) Post the application.

3) Offer a brutally honest assessment of the suitability of the tools for the job at hand. Just humble and honest assessments.

4) Frame your report/critique with a brief description of your experience... so we know where you're coming from.

5) Nobody cuts you down or belittles you for your equipment decisions, your applications, or your assessments.

 

Just keep the resource at this level: Here's the gear, here's the application, here's why I made the decisions I made, and here's my assessments. Peroid.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Originally posted by mparsons Thank you. I appreciate the honesty and the realistic point of view. However I am not going for a professional, perfect sound mix ( I would love that though ). If so, I'd be focusing more money into owning an actual venue I could use to profit the system out of, which isn't practical. High school etc. I've heard decent shows with stage volume and a small PA like what we're talking about here. Nothing spectacular and you can't hear the vocals as clearly as you'd like, but for competing with drums it did its job. I'd love to go an all digital route right into PA but that's too much money to invest for my drummer right now. So a smaller sub-1k PA system will have to do. As for smaller stage amps.. we wish, it'd be cheaper and easier but the drums are always a threshold for volume and smaller stuff can't do it. Thanks for all of your help and suggestions.

 

 

There are a couple of those packages in Musicians Friend. I'd go for a Peavey or Yamaha mixer, and Yamaha Club speakers. Probably still over $800, but you might save a few bucks over separate prices, and they are 'complete' in that spkr stands and mics and cables are included.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Originally posted by Audiopile This subject comes up a lot... What PA for the band? I've been thinking... rather than this endless shotgun approach to the same basic questions concerning the same basic subject with much the same basic answers, over, and over, and over (with much the same results)... maybe HC could have a "resource room" or "sticky"... something where folks could: 1) Post what they are running for a PA, and: 2) What sorts of work they do with the PA, and: 3) Comment on what seems adequate, what seems like over-kill, and what could use more beef, and: 4) Comment on why they chose what they chose. And give brutally honest assessments. Then, when the "What PA for the band?" question comes up, the inquiring minds could access the resource room... read what various folks are currently using, why they use it, and what they wish they were using instead. I would take the time to supply as unbiased and comprehensive of a detailed report as I can reasonably muster of what I personally use and why I made the choices if such a resource venue was made available. I suggest the rules of conduct could be: 1) Post the gear. 2) Post the application. 3) Offer a brutally honest assessment of the suitability of the tools for the job at hand. Just humble and honest assessments. 4) Frame your report/critique with a brief description of your experience... so we know where you're coming from. 5) Nobody cuts you down or belittles you for your equipment decisions, your applications, or your assessments. Just keep the resource at this level: Here's the gear, here's the application, here's why I made the decisions I made, and here's my assessments. Peroid.

 

 

Excellent idea, please start the thread and we can ask that it be made sticky after a page or two if it catches on.

[mparsons]

 

Excellent idea, please start the thread and we can ask that it be made sticky after a page or two if it catches on.

 

 

That would be fantastic! I searched through the first 6 or so pages trying to find something with a similar application but nothing was to the same extent.

 

Thanks again for all the help.

[Guest Anonymous]

Ok, the deed is done.

[Singin' Dave]

Thanks to Audiopile for the "What, why, where" thread....very interesting reading and I will contribute to it soon to add some low end gear balance to the existing posts.

 

To get back to this poster's question, GCDEF asked what was missing from the other similar "first/beginning PA" threads is a good one. Take a read through them after a search and ask us some more pointed questions.

 

For now, I'll regurgitate my pat answer - Budget of

 

On eBay, craigslist and elsewhere, there are often powered mixers and speakers for sale for $500-$1,000 that will probably do an OK job for you guys for vocals given what I guess is not too picky a sonic palette. The reason? Bands quickly realize the limitations of these rigs, and sell them to acquire more robust systems.

 

Thus the common recommendation in these threads about starting modular, i.e. buy small pieces of decent equipment, then building a system as more money is available. In this budget range a good powered speaker and small passive board is a great option for ease of use and aural quality.

 

So search away and get back to us with some inquiries about specific comparisons, brands, etc.