Members doubleRT Posted August 21, 2008 Members Share Posted August 21, 2008 Went to the Bon Jovi concert at the Greensboro, NC Colisium Complex. The seats we had weren't so great, so about the 5th song or so, we moved all the way down to about the stage level beside the stage, (got lucky and found a whole empty row). Anyways, the first thing I noticed about the mix was, I could hear Tiko's drums and cymbals HH's clearly from the stage all the way to our seats somewhere near the top, and of coarse they could be heard thru the sound system as well. I was like, they ain't giving it enough gas to overpower his drums? I did see alot of kids and some middle aged to older people as well. If so, is it the mixed age difference at the show that was the reason why I heard the drums like that? Do you "Pro Sound Engineers" take into consideration of the kids and older people while setting db levels? Also the overall volume was kind of low compared to the other shows ive seen there, Kiss, Motley Crue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ezstep Posted August 21, 2008 Members Share Posted August 21, 2008 We took our newly-walking granddaughter to a Six Flags-type theme park this summer, and the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band was performing that evening. I actually ran into John McEuen before the show and talked for five minutes or so (always been a NGDB fan). He told me not to get too close to the speakers because the SPL's could possibly do damage to the youngster way, way down the road. I thought that was very decent of him, even though I had no plans to get onto the main floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 21, 2008 CMS Author Share Posted August 21, 2008 What is it you're asking? You said you could hear the drums clearly, from the stage to your original seats at the top. That seems like a good thing, hearing drums clearly. What is it that was unusual about the mix? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members doubleRT Posted August 21, 2008 Author Members Share Posted August 21, 2008 What is it you're asking? You said you could hear the drums clearly, from the stage to your original seats at the top. That seems like a good thing, hearing drums clearly. What is it that was unusual about the mix? I could hear the drums stage volume thru the main mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Special J Posted August 21, 2008 Members Share Posted August 21, 2008 I don't know anything about Bon Jovi's touring system or the Greensboro Colisseum, but if you were pretty close to the stage, you were probably out of the pattern of the main PA system and were probably only hearing the front fill speakers. Many system engineers will rely heavily on the stage volume to cover the first couple of rows and will mostly put vocals and acoustic instruments through the front fills. Just a guess. To answer your question, I always tailor the overall volume to the crowd. If I'm mixing bluegrass for bluehairs I keep it quieter than I would hardcore for the tattooed set. As far as the youngins go, I feel it's the parents' responsibility not to plop their kids down in front of loudspeakers. But, if I see it happen and I have the space, I'll try to mention to them that it's not a smart idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 21, 2008 CMS Author Share Posted August 21, 2008 I could hear the drums stage volume thru the main mix. As acoustic instruments, unless the drums are only amplified by triggers, all of the sound into the drum mics is technically "stage volume". Tico is a *very* hard-hitting drummer, so unless a shield is used, and I've not seen Bon Jovi use one at shows I've attended, there's going to be drum bleeding into vocal mics as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dogoth Posted August 21, 2008 Members Share Posted August 21, 2008 I could hear the drums stage volume thru the main mix. As long as it didn't create an anoying delay effect, I wouldn't see any problem with that. If the mix was good and at a low level to boot then cudos to the engineer. In smaller and mid sized venues, If I have an extraordinarily loud drummer of guitarist, often times I have very little of them in the FOH mix. At that point it's called sound REINFORCMENT. In other words just balancing what's on stage vs negating the stage sound with an overpowering FOH Volume. Unless there's some special effect happening, I have yet to hear a PA sound better that the acoustic instrument it's self (of course we are talking about Bon Jovi, so I guess you would want that huge bombastic kick and floor tom sound (not something you hear acousticly)). There is also the possibility that there were other factors limiting the volume the engineer could operate at. As you pointed out, the venue could have a max SPL cap, or the room could have acousticly sucked and the only thing they could do was turn down. Just a few possible explanations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 21, 2008 CMS Author Share Posted August 21, 2008 Just wanted to add that Tico Torres is a kickass drummer. Hearing him clearly is definitely a good thing. Dude also looks like he enjoys the hell out of playing in that band...he's smiling about 95% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members srp72ee Posted August 21, 2008 Members Share Posted August 21, 2008 Dude also looks like he enjoys the hell out of playing in that band...he's smiling about 95% of the time. He's probably thinking of the after the concert... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Murphman Posted August 21, 2008 Members Share Posted August 21, 2008 He's probably thinking of the after the concert... Nah, he's playing for fun now that he's made a killing from his line of baby clothes! www.rockstarbaby.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassred Posted August 22, 2008 Members Share Posted August 22, 2008 I could hear the drums stage volume thru the main mix. Could you really? How far away were you from the stage? It was probably just a good mix that included the cymbals and drums, unless this was a small room... there would have been quite a bit of delay (relatively speaking, not seconds, but definitely delay) from the drummers position on stage to where your original seats were, and there is a good chance that you were just hearing a well-adjusted and time-aligned system... What was the rig? Did they have delays hangs/stacks anywhere? ... I hardly believe that they were just using the natural drum/cymbal sound... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members doubleRT Posted August 23, 2008 Author Members Share Posted August 23, 2008 We were sitting in the upper level, left of Tico, looking directly down at him. The drums I could not hear naturally, all thru the mix, but I most certain heard his cymbals, and especially his hats. The overall volume was not loud, and I could talk to my girlfriend next to me without shouting. I have seen at least 10 shows there, and all different seats, this was the lowest volume show I ever seen there. AC/DC was the loudest.....brought earplugs lol. They had arrays all around the stage, prob about 10 per cluster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TwEeK Posted August 25, 2008 Members Share Posted August 25, 2008 We were sitting in the upper level, left of Tico, looking directly down at him. The drums I could not hear naturally, all thru the mix, but I most certain heard his cymbals, and especially his hats. The overall volume was not loud, and I could talk to my girlfriend next to me without shouting. I have seen at least 10 shows there, and all different seats, this was the lowest volume show I ever seen there. AC/DC was the loudest.....brought earplugs lol. They had arrays all around the stage, prob about 10 per cluster. Cymbals and hi-hats bleed into vocal mics, period. Short of using Edrums or a plexi shield there's really nothing you can do about it. Also, AC/DC went out last with DB Sound's (now bought up by Clair Brothers) EV X-Array system, quite possibly one of the loudest, rockingist (lol) point source systems ever made. It currently makes its rounds with the trans Siberian orchestra. EDIT: I see what you're saying now, you heard the cymbals naturally where you were sitting? The line array, which is used with pretty much all major national acts nowadays has the advantage of relatively even volume coverage throughout the venue. This means that the ball blasting ear splitting volume up front that used to be a requirement in order to cover the people in the back is no longer neccessary. The downside is (as previously mentioned) it requires front fills to cover the first few rows of seating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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