PA Question/Dilemma

[sickman]

OK, here's my situation.... I play with a cover bar band (you know the type). Our singer/guitarist just quit and we have decided to move ahead with out him. The remaining members are each going to pick up the slack and sing more songs.

 

Before he quit, I was looking at starting to put together my own PA. My plan was to get a pair of Mackie SRM450s active speakers and something like a Peavey PV14 mixer (would be about $1200). My birthday is in 4 months and at this time I was going to upgrade the Mackie's to something like a pair of JBL MRX512Ms or MRX525s. I would then use the Mackie's as monitors. Eventually, I'd add of pair of subs. IMO, this would be a pretty decent bar band PA set up that would be easily transported.

 

Back to the band and my dilemma.... We have a small PA, but the guy who left was the one who owned the monitors. Right now we have a powered Samson mixer, two Yorkville mains, one community monitor, and one Ibanez sub. If I am going to be singing 1/3 of the material I need to be able to hear myself.... I need a monitor. Should I just look for something cheap on craiglist/ebay, such as a passive Yamaha or Peavey main and use it as a monitor for the time being?

 

Damn... I looked at one on ebay and see this http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Yamaha-Club-Series-SW118V-S115V-speaker-sub-package_W0QQitemZ270288786101QQcmdZViewItem?hash=i tem270288786101&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72% 3A570|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318 For another $500 I could add some power and a mixer and we could use the Yorkvilles as monitors!

[sickman]

http://www.audioeast.com/yorkvillesystems.htm

 

I saw package #4 mentioned here, but for what we do I really can't justify it ($250-500 gigs). If I could break it up over the course of a year, I wouldn't feel as guilty.... but I'd still have to add monitors and I wouldn't be able to mix it up with what we have now.

[DaBender]

If you're just looking for a monitor, why not go ahead and buy your Mackies now?

[tsaldana3]

Or AT LEAST buy one mackie right now, then get the other as you have more money.

[sickman]

OK... so can the Mackie's be hooked up to the powered mixer we already have? The Mackie's are an active speaker.

 

Also, for what we do it's very possible the Mackie's have enough power. So, if we can mix and match active speakers with passive speakers my purchase after the Mackie's could be some subs... then we could use the yorkvilles as monitors.

[tsaldana3]

what mixer do you have? what model?

[sickman]

 

what mixer do you have? what model?

 

 

Not sure, it's owned by the drummer. It's a Samson, something like this http://cgi.ebay.com/SAMSON-XM410-6-CHANNEL-POWERED-MIXER-400-WATTS-24-BIT_W0QQitemZ300268228105QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item300268228105&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A570|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318#ebayphotohosting

 

Not a lot of inputs... not sure why he bought it. Probably because it was cheap.

[sickman]

If we keep this going I think the best thing would be for me to get some mains, subs, and a mixer and we could use his yorkvilles as monitors. We could power them with the Samson, right?

 

I think even those Yamaha's would be a huge upgrade to what we have now.

 

I could spend around $2000 before the end of this year now and another $1000 in a couple of months.

[tsaldana3]

if the mixer is like the one you showed me, and as long it has main outputs or an Aux out on the front, (like the ones this mixer has) then yes you can use the mackies with it. You could use them as either monitors or mains with the mixer.

 

btw what yorkville's do you have?

 

oh and yes, you could still use the mixer for monitors. with the yorkvilles

[sickman]

 

if the mixer is like the one you showed me, and as long it has main outputs or an Aux out on the front, (like the ones this mixer has) then yes you can use the mackies with it. You could use them as either monitors or mains with the mixer. btw what yorkville's do you have? oh and yes, you could still use the mixer for monitors.

 

 

I will check out and see if it has main outputs or an aux out front.

 

I'm not sure about the Yorkvilles. Probably nothing great.

 

I'm noticing passive speakers seem cheaper, but with my (lack) of knowledge about PA's it is probably worth investing in active stuff. $4000 is just too much for me.

[sickman]

I guess another option would be something like these:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Yorkville-YX18s-YX-Series-Subwoofer-400w-Auth-Dealer_W0QQitemZ290178736515QQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

 

But, then I would still have to get monitors, power, EQ, and not own any mains of my own.

 

I wish I could easily spend money without regret.

[tsaldana3]

 

I'm noticing passive speakers seem cheaper, but with my (lack) of knowledge about PA's it is probably worth investing in active stuff. $4000 is just too much for me.

 

 

Well just as a comparison as how some passive gear racks up in price against active..... For example, you mentioned to probably upgrade to MRX512m's.

I'd say it be better to go with its active equivalent which is the JBL PRX512M. For the Pair it would be 1,859.98. No need to worry about power since they are active.

 

The pair of MRX's would cost 1300, BUT you still need power. An amp like the Crown XLS 802D is what you would need to buy to be matched to the speakers and that costs 600. As you can see it would be about 60 dollars more to get the active's which would DEFINAtELY be worth it.

[sickman]

What do you think about package #4? We've got mics, but I would need to buy a roadcase for the mixer. Do you think I could do better?

 

It's a lot of dough.... but I'm trying to look at this like some people like to buy boats, some people like to buy old cars, some people like to buy motorcycles, some people golf, etc, etc... everyone has their hobbies. I wouldn't get my money back, but I'd probably get a couple hundred a month from playing. That would basically cover my gas for driving. Hahaha.

[twostone]

I guess another option would be something like these: http://cgi.ebay.com/Yorkville-YX18s-YX-Series-Subwoofer-400w-Auth-Dealer_W0QQitemZ290178736515QQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116 But, then I would still have to get monitors, power, EQ, and not own any mains of my own. I wish I could easily spend money without regret.

 

Those YX18's seems a little weak for sub duties IMO. Not saying they wouldn't work but you probably would be disappointed with them when you start micing out the whole band.

[tsaldana3]

What do you think about package #4? We've got mics, but I would need to buy a roadcase for the mixer. Do you think I could do better? It's a lot of dough.... but I'm trying to look at this like some people like to buy boats, some people like to buy old cars, some people like to buy motorcycles, some people golf, etc, etc... everyone has their hobbies. I wouldn't get my money back, but I'd probably get a couple hundred a month from playing. That would basically cover my gas for driving. Hahaha.

 

Package 4 would be a GREAT buy. You'd be very happy with that system.

 

Those YX18's seems a little weak for sub duties IMO. Not saying they wouldn't work but you probably would be disappointed with them when you start micing out the whole band.

 

They are weak. I rented them on an emergency occasion, and my goodness were they weak..... big mistake, i could have done the gig without renting them.......(ok, i'm exaggerating, but still)

[twostone]

 

What do you think about package #4? We've got mics, but I would need to buy a roadcase for the mixer. Do you think I could do better? It's a lot of dough.... but I'm trying to look at this like some people like to buy boats, some people like to buy old cars, some people like to buy motorcycles, some people golf, etc, etc... everyone has their hobbies. I wouldn't get my money back, but I'd probably get a couple hundred a month from playing. That would basically cover my gas for driving. Hahaha.

 

 

Package 4 great choice. BTW I didn't start sounding good until I had the 5k mark.

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

Package 4 great choice. BTW I didn't start sounding good until I had the 5k mark.

 

 

So Tommy: Has improving your sound (and reliability) value added your entertainment product? What would you be making per show and/or what would be the demand if you were equipped with a minimal (

 

I'm of the opinion that the horse must come before the cart. It seldom works the other way. It takes money to make money. Few if any clients will pay forward (pay more for a minimal product hoping they can later buy better from the same band once the band's worked enough better paying gigs to then afford to buy the equipment that produces the entertainment product that justifies better pay).

 

It's a catch-22. If you don't have the tool/means to produce the product that folks will pay more for, then folks won't pay more for the product to then allow the purchase of those better tools to enable producing a product that folks will pay more for. If your business plan is to work your way up the ladder by rolling the profits from the business into the business, you must first have actual profits to roll into the business. At $250/gig (even $500/gig) for the whole band, generating true profits is doubtful (beyond that which could be generated just working a minimal type wage job for the same man-hours invested).

 

I don't know of many truly profitable and/or rewarding equipment intensive businesses in competative fields that can be capitalized for less than $1K/employee.

 

Admittedly, when I first started playing professionally, our band made about $100 - $150 per gig (in the mid '70's). We quickly (within a year or so) realized we where basically playing for minimum wage (or less) when factoring in our transportation costs and practice time... and we were in no position to capitalize our small business to break into the better paying and more consistant gigs. So, the bulk of the band members (including myself) went to work for a lead man who needing a backing band... and that lead man owned the suitable gear, and transportation, and had a full schedule of good paying gigs.

[Bobby1Note]

Sickman,

 

The AudioEast packages, are merely guidelines. They're not written in stone. You can alter the packages to suit your needs and budget. Might be worthwhile giving them a call. They'll work with you to sort out your system needs, and are very creative. Great outfit. You might even want to talk to them about buying slightly used gear. They take trade-ins, so they may have some terrific used gear for you. They also do rentals, so they may have some of those units for sale, with factory warranty.

 

Personally, I wouldn't touch anything with Mackie on it. I've just heard too many service horror stories. Yorkvilles' warranty, is bullet-proof. 10 years on cabinets/ 2 years "even if YOU break it" warranty.

 

My buying philosophy; Buy once, cry once. To me it's crazy to throw your money away at compromise gear, only to resell it and lose money doing so(depreciation). All the while you're living with less-than satisfactory gear, and your ultimate goal gets further away. Be patient, and build a solid foundation. In the long tun, it'll cost less, and you'll be better equipped.

 

Good luck.

[sickman]

If it changes anyone's opinion, I doubt I will ever make any money from this. I mean this will never be my sole source of income.

 

The majority of bands around here don't use subs. For most of the places we play it would be overkill. But, I figure... why the hell not. Like I said, I look at it like some guy buying a boat or an old car. I'm not married, young, and don't have kids.... I can spend some money right now. I figure I will keep it for a long time anways.

[sickman]

If I got a pair of the Yorkville NX55P and a decent mixer we'd probably have better gear than 90% of the bands around here.

 

I could add the subs come my birthday in a couple months.

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

The majority of bands around here don't use subs. For most of the places we play it would be overkill. But, I figure... why the hell not.

 

What are these places you are playing? Somebody's front room? Playing any type of R&R, country, R&B... it's been decades since I've played any venue where subs were over-kill... in-fact I'd say they're a requirement for most contemperary genres of music performed for a live dance crowd. If the majority of bands in your market don't use subs, I'd say it will be fairly easy to kick their ass in the market.

[sickman]

What are these places you are playing? Somebody's front room? Playing any type of R&R, country, R&B... it's been decades since I've played any venue where subs were over-kill... in-fact I'd say they're a requirement for most contemperary genres of music performed for a live dance crowd. If the majority of bands in your market don't use subs, I'd say it will be fairly easy to kick their ass in the market.

 

We play small-mid size bars for people 21-60 years old. The gig I mentioned above was at a happy hour (5-8:30) type thing. I stuck around for the band that played after us and they sounded great. They had subs and everything... they played a lot of the same stuff and had them dancing, but they sounded rehearsed unlike us. But, when we spend the practice before trying to teach a new guy 40 songs it's not going to end well. Honestly, I'm hoping he quits... but that's a different story.

[sickman]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Behringer-B1500X-High-Power-15-Subwoofers-PAIR_W0QQitemZ180301992119QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item180301992119&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A570|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

 

Is Behringer utter crap? I mean, I could buy these for $250 and basically give them to the bandleader without caring.

 

Still, I'd like to eventually put together my own PA... but is this worth it for a short term solution?

[6Imzadi]

 

Behringer speakers on ebay Is Behringer utter crap? I mean, I could buy these for $250 and basically give them to the bandleader without caring. Still, I'd like to eventually put together my own PA... but is this worth it for a short term solution?

 

 

You could buy those now for $300 + $60 for insured shipping and you would have a set of subs that would be an addition to your PA. Now, they also should be replaced soon as they may not last very long. But in the short term, they may work for you. I would never buy them, but thats my opinion.

[sickman]

 

You could buy those now for $300 + $60 for insured shipping and you would have a set of subs that would be an addition to your PA. Now, they also should be replaced soon as they may not last very long. But in the short term, they may work for you. I would never buy them, but thats my opinion.

 

 

Haha.... I guess I will pass.