RCF ART722A initial thoughts

[jaswrx]

Mike, I thought the 722 was the better speaker so it was priced a few hundred more. Has this changed and do you think the 522 is still better than the 722?

[abzurd]

I did a little comparison. Overally there doesn't seem to be all that much difference performance wise.

 

522A/722A

 

outsourced amplifier / amplifier has RCF name

integrated molded pole cup / bolt in pole cup

plastic hand grips / rubberized hand grips

thumb screw to secure speaker to pole / no thumb screw or way to secure

36.6 lbs / 39.7 lbs

no eq options / flat-boost option which boosts lows and highs for background music use

High end voice coil (64mm / 63.5mm)

Low end voice coil (75mm/76mm)

Both use 75 mm voice coil on low end

Both have same crossover (1200Hz)

Both have same frequency response (45HZ -20kHz)

Both have same output (130 dB)

 

Eyeballing the graphs they provide

 

Horizontal off axis response seems slightly better with the 522A for most of the scenarios.

 

The 722A seems to have more low end to about 400Hz or so.

[Audiopyle Sound]

 

Mike, I thought the 722 was the better speaker so it was priced a few hundred more. Has this changed and do you think the 522 is still better than the 722?

 

 

No, the 722 & 725 came out priced slightly less than the 522 & 525, and still are. You are probably thinking of the ART322A, which costs less.

 

I don't think either sounds "better", just different. With minimal eq I can make my passive ART325s sound like any of them, at least on axis. Although the new cab design of the 700 models is better looking in person than the photos indicate, I still prefer the appearance of the 300/500 series, especially with the full grill option.

[jaswrx]

so wait, you are even saying that the 325 (15in version) can sound almost as good as the 5 series 12 version.

 

I know for sure the 3 series cost less. Is it really that close to the 5 series?

[Audiopyle Sound]

 

so wait, you are even saying that the 325 (15in version) can sound almost as good as the 5 series 12 version. I know for sure the 3 series cost less. Is it really that close to the 5 series?

 

 

With the passive cabinets you don't have the limitation of the built in amps of the powered 300 series.

[jaswrx]

hmm.. so it uses the same drivers then as the 525A? It seems the main difference is the power amp ratings but if one were to use the passive 325i with a hefty amp, it would be close to the 522a? Do they not have a passive 525?

[jaswrx]

????BUMP

[abzurd]

 

????BUMP

 

 

The low driver is definitely not the same. It's unlikely the high driver is either as the 2 boxes have what seem to be significant differences in frequency response. Given the enclosures are exactly the same, I'd think they'd be identical frequency responses if the same compression drivers were used.

[Audiopyle Sound]

Yeah, I would guess the drivers are different. Definitely the woofer, as the 325i still uses a ceramic magnet. Nevertheless, with ample power available the 325i passive cabs sound as good to me as the newer powered cabs.

 

The old ART500s I have are also great sounding, but I got tired of throwing that much weight up on stands.

[Bobby1Note]

 

I'm using 1 RCF705as sub with my 2QSC122i boxes at the moment. Only done 1 gig with it but wasn't that impressed. It shook the walls but i couldn't get it to thump at all. Using it again tomorrow, see if i have any better luck.

 

 

How is it crossed over? Have you tried cutting off the bottom-end at 45hz-50hz or so, and the main cross-over point at or slightly above 100hz?

 

Bob

[Audiopyle Sound]

One thing to note with the ART705AS sub is that the input sensitivity is relatively low. You may need to turn the trim all the way up and turn the gain on your top cabinets down to balance the levels. Another thing you can do if you are using just a single input cable to the sub instead of stereo is to hook your mono signal to BOTH sub inputs. The summing circuit of the sub's input will then deliver a hotter input signal to the subwoofer amp. You can do this by using a Y cord, or just by patching from the "link" connector of the input you are using to the other input.

[abzurd]

 

One thing to note with the ART705AS sub is that the input sensitivity is relatively low. You may need to turn the trim all the way up and turn the gain on your top cabinets down to balance the levels. Another thing you can do if you are using just a single input cable to the sub instead of stereo is to hook your mono signal to BOTH sub inputs. The summing circuit of the sub's input will then deliver a hotter input signal to the subwoofer amp. You can do this by using a Y cord, or just by patching from the "link" connector of the input you are using to the other input.

 

 

Agreed! - weak input levels. The way to truly figure out the subs capacity is to turn it up at the sub, as mentioned, and then turn up the mixer to the point you see the clipping LED, then back off a touch. You can also use an outboard crossover to get things dialed in easier. Having the input controls for both tops and subs handy to the touch and convenient to the ears is nice. Better than digging behind cabinets then running out to hear how it sounds. I've been aux feeding so I have to use one anyway.

[abzurd]

 

How is it crossed over? Have you tried cutting off the bottom-end at 45hz-50hz or so, and the main cross-over point at or slightly above 100hz? Bob

 

 

There's nothing appreciable under 50 Hz anyway. I'm guessing there's already some sort of low pass filter built into the processor, but don't know for sure.

 

Main crossover wise, I would cross over lower than 100 Hz. I've found around 85 or 90 works well. This is because the sub is pretty efficient at 100 Hz and wants to throw those frequencies out. This is how the high SPL numbers are obtained, but it's not "good bass", IMO. I will sacrifice a few dB's of output for a bit more thump. For this reason I'll also boost 60 Hz 4 dB. The limiter light will come on earlier, but that's OK. I just back off a bit in the volume, adjust the top boxes accordingly and that's the output of the system. I seldom need more. If I do I'll add another pair of subs or just turn up the tops.

 

Also, they actually couple pretty well. So cluster 2 together where possible. You'll notice they go a bit lower too that way.

 

Finally, I've been aux feeding them lately and much prefer it. If there's always some vocals and stage wash from the mics, etc in the subs, it fills the room with a certain amount of low frequencies that the transients then have to get over to make an impact. Aux feeding gives the precision of putting only what you want in the subs and not a hint of anything you don't. Putting only bass, kick, floor tom, into the subs means much more punch which translates into more definition so less bass is needed for an impact. Or a short way of putting it.... It takes the mud out.

[philw44]

 

There's nothing appreciable under 50 Hz anyway. I'm guessing there's already some sort of low pass filter built into the processor, but don't know for sure. Main crossover wise, I would cross over lower than 100 Hz. I've found around 85 or 90 works well. This is because the sub is pretty efficient at 100 Hz and wants to throw those frequencies out. This is how the high SPL numbers are obtained, but it's not "good bass", IMO. I will sacrifice a few dB's of output for a bit more thump. For this reason I'll also boost 60 Hz 4 dB. The limiter light will come on earlier, but that's OK. I just back off a bit in the volume, adjust the top boxes accordingly and that's the output of the system. I seldom need more. If I do I'll add another pair of subs or just turn up the tops. Also, they actually couple pretty well. So cluster 2 together where possible. You'll notice they go a bit lower too that way. Finally, I've been aux feeding them lately and much prefer it. If there's always some vocals and stage wash from the mics, etc in the subs, it fills the room with a certain amount of low frequencies that the transients then have to get over to make an impact. Aux feeding gives the precision of putting only what you want in the subs and not a hint of anything you don't. Putting only bass, kick, floor tom, into the subs means much more punch which translates into more definition so less bass is needed for an impact. Or a short way of putting it.... It takes the mud out.

 

 

Cool, i've just tried it on 100hz at the mo. I'll see if i can borrow an external x-over and see if it makes a noticeable difference .

 

Hopefully have enough dosh to get a second one in December.

 

I think the main problem with my setup at the moment is that the 122i's are voiced pretty thin. I feel like i have this gap in the frequency spectrum at say 100-400hz. Its really noticeable on toms - I can't hear the fundamental frequency... it's just all attack of the stick.

[abzurd]

 

Cool, I've just tried it on 100hz at the mo. I'll see if i can borrow an external x-over and see if it makes a noticeable difference . Hopefully have enough dosh to get a second one in December. I think the main problem with my setup at the moment is that the 122i's are voiced pretty thin. I feel like i have this gap in the frequency spectrum at say 100-400hz. Its really noticeable on toms - I can't hear the fundamental frequency... it's just all attack of the stick.

 

 

Hmmm. I can't imagine a gap that large in those speakers. I actually have to suck a good bit out of the 400Hz for vocals (different speakers though). It's where the power is in the vocals, but also can be prone to feedback as sound waves are still pretty omni-directional even at 400 Hz so the mains bleed onto stage. You put vocals over the top of the mix and have too much in that area and it's not so good.

 

Anyway, are you sure it's not a microphone technique issue or the microphone itself. If you can hear the tone unmiced, and can get a good channel strip sound with headphones, I have to think the speakers can do OK.

[philw44]

Well i get good results at the venue i work at (with much lower spec gear) so i very much doubt user error.

 

The drum kit sounded fantastic acoustically - It was one of the upper level TAMA series (starclassic i think?) and tuned pretty deep. Sounded good in phones.

 

No serious cuts in the FOH EQ. Just a little around 1-1.6k and a bit at 8-10k.

 

And yeah i agree, i'm usually taking that 250-400 region out in a lot of instruments/vocals and PA systems! But on these the first thing i am thinking when bringing up the fader is that i need more...

[philw44]

I did a bit of a test in my living room this morning. (I live in a rural area thankfully).

 

Cranked up the QSCs to max - put my DBX231 EQ in the chain and played 3 songs i'm very familiar with:

 

Michael Jackson - Billie Jean

Robert Miles - Children

Paramore - Misery Business

 

I cut all the sliders and went through all of them one by one noting the difference each made on the sound.

 

What i found interesting was in the 160-400hz region, even with a -12dB to +12dB difference very little changes. However in the 63-125 region you can get a serious amount of bass output from this cab.

 

To me, it suggests that they were designed to sound great in the shops to provoke a "wow listen how low this thing goes" reaction - at the expense of a big mid scoop.