Members Rumorsband Posted February 26, 2010 Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 I have been reading quite a bit about EQing and I see repeated warnings to stay away from the happy face. Can someone explain why? I was using JBL EONS 515's (full range 15"/horn). I have since sold them and I have bought Yorkville NX55p;s and am awaiting a NX720 sub. Yorkville tells you to press the filter button on the back of the 55's when using a sub however I feel it cuts out too many lows from the tops and will force me to need to EQ heavy. I would rather leave the filter off and leave the eq flat and have the sub only go after the real lows. Am I making sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BillESC Posted February 26, 2010 Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 The concept of the low cut on your full range cabinets is to allow the subs to take care of the bass material allowing your tops to just deal with the mid/highs. In this configuration your tops will not have to work as hard and therefore deliver cleaner sound. You also eliminate comb filtering/cancellation of two cabinets trying to produce the same frequencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boomerweps Posted February 26, 2010 Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 You haven't got the sub yet to test the tops with. The sub WILL cover the region the NX55s don't. Whether the one sub will keep up with the volume (SPL) of the tops is another question. You may have to throttle the tops back a little. You really do want to avoid a large overlap of frequencies reproduced by the subs and tops. It is a source of muddying up your sound, trying to reproduce the same frequencies with several different drivers. The anti-smilely face sentiment is from seeing people apply that kind of EQing without truely listening to the sound to determine what needs filtered. In live sound the primary goal is to faithfully reproduce the original source, although we often have to try to "polish a turd" ;>) Why and what does the smilely curve do? Highly compressed modern recorded music loses the highs a bit and increasing the highs brings more life to the sound. More bass is often desired, especially at lowered sound levels where it is less pronounced compared to the other frequencies or when masked by other sounds like in a car. Often the PA speaker system cannot reproduce the bass people are used to in that enclosed area of a vehicle unless it is a very large system. SO people crank up the bass. To pull the highs and lows up even further comparatively, the mids get scooped out. In live sound, you just cut the middle out of the piano, the primary guitar frequencies, and all the vocals. A VERY bad choice in live sound. Boomerweps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rumorsband Posted February 26, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 Thanks for the advice. No , I do not have the sub yet. I did however rent an NX720 that I used with my EONS. Per JBL I used the cut position because I thought the sub did not have a filter...however when i read the specs it says it does. I also had the smiley face per my normal full range use. I just felt that the tops sounded much fuller when the filter was off. I thought I could avoid the overlapping of frequencys by having the sub just cover the real lows. I will need to experimnet a bit I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted February 26, 2010 Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 Are you using a crossover? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rumorsband Posted February 26, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 No I am not using a crossover. I was also going to add this comment for consideration. The NX55's filter will cut at 100 I think it says. If I set the sub at a lower setting say 90 or lower won't that mean the sub will only go after those frequencys? I'm trying to make it simple, and I understand the idea of using the cut, but it sounded so much better when it was not applied. I am really only looking to add a little punch. I really don't want to hear any vocals coming out of the sub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sickman Posted February 26, 2010 Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 I remember reading the Yorkville does not have sufficient processing/internal crossover. I'm still a noob, so I might be confused. It is one of the reasons I went the PRX route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rumorsband Posted February 26, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 Could be...not sure. I also liked the PRX however I have become increasiningly dissatisfied with JBL. Through the years I've owned nothing but JBL and this last EON series was a huge diappointment. The Yorks are cheaper than the regular EONS I had and a huge stepup. To go to the PRX is even more...$$$ and...I hear the PRX is being dropped or totally revamped to due to "issues".Thats what i hear anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted February 26, 2010 Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 In my opinion, a crossover will help solve all your questions. Set the crossover point at 100 and listen to the system. Then if you are not happy, try 90. change the crossover point until you are happy with the sound. Most good cabs should sound fine with a flat EQ. A smiley face either means a noob is running the system or the cabs are very poor quality. Even then, boosting highs and lows and cutting mids to the point of a smiley really doesn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted February 26, 2010 Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 Could be...not sure. I also liked the PRX however I have become increasiningly dissatisfied with JBL. Through the years I've owned nothing but JBL and this last EON series was a huge diappointment. The Yorks are cheaper than the regular EONS I had and a huge stepup. To go to the PRX is even more...$$$ and...I hear the PRX is being dropped or totally revamped to due to "issues".Thats what i hear anyway. In my opinion JBL EONs and JRX are garbage. Well, the EONs are OK but still very much a low end consumer product. Not really fair to judge a company by it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted February 26, 2010 Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 I hear the PRX is being dropped or totally revamped to due to "issues".Thats what i hear anyway. Really. I have never heard anything about that. It is an extremely popular line. Where did you hear that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rumorsband Posted February 26, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 I try to run as flat as possible and may tweak on the individual channels a bit here and there. I was amazed that the 12" Yorks actually required less EQ than the 15" JBL's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sickman Posted February 26, 2010 Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 Could be...not sure. I also liked the PRX however I have become increasiningly dissatisfied with JBL. Through the years I've owned nothing but JBL and this last EON series was a huge diappointment. The Yorks are cheaper than the regular EONS I had and a huge stepup. To go to the PRX is even more...$$$ and...I hear the PRX is being dropped or totally revamped to due to "issues".Thats what i hear anyway. I haven't heard of any issues in regards to the PRX line? I narrowed down my choices to the QSC HPR, JBL PRX, and Yorkville system you are talking about. IMO, any one of those would make a great mobile PA and probably better than anything I have ever played on. I took the QSC out of the running because the subs were too heavy for me and my application. I found a good deal on JBL PRX 512M b-stock for $700 (I think) and pulled the trigger. Right now there is a b-stock PRX 512M one on Ebay for $675. Honestly, I am a little concerned about the PRX 518 sub being underpowered, but I think my worry is unwarranted for any application for which I will end up using the subs. I'm planning to pick up the sub in the next month or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members monthlymixcd Posted February 26, 2010 Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 I use EQs subtractively... meaning, I've learned to hear what frequencies are too hot and nudge them down a little... rather than just think "oh, snap... I needs me some mo' bass... so I'll push dez sliders to da' top!" It's a much better way to do things than just taking everything up, uP, UP. Our powered sub (KX1.5) has a fixed LPF at 125hz so I HPF our tops (SX200s) at 100hz with good results and none of the aforementioned "mud". A well-balanced compact system that's big enough for 90% of the stuff we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rumorsband Posted February 26, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 I had very good luck with my Eons. as i said the NX is cheaper than the regular EONs. I heard it at 2 stores...one was GC. I went to hear them fro the 2nd time and they only had 1. He looked it up and said only 1 store had them and it was a large GC... and it siad none available..which he said meant something was up. He said that is done when they are not going to getting anymore. then at a 2nd store I ws told about issues. i am friends with a JBL service guy and he said he was unaware but they did have several issues when they first came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NUSound Posted February 26, 2010 Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 Generally Speaking: "Cut to improve a sound, boost to change a sound." The biggest issue I've heard with smiley faces is with DJ's. They cut out basically everything between 250 to 12.5k and which removes most of the actual musical content (fundamentals, plus most of the first couple useful harmonics). Then they start turning the system up until ti is ear-bleedingly loud in order to compensate for this lack of 'real' musical content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phil Clark Posted February 26, 2010 Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 Some people set an eq smiley face because they think that is what is needed and it is easy to visually set that. The issue being that you want to use an eq first to make your pa perform accoustically flat (which almost none of them actually do right out of the box) and then once you achieve that, then adjust for a room. That means that you try to get the PA to produce all frequencies at equal volumes, then you can tweak for the room and for the style of music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sickman Posted February 26, 2010 Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 I had very good luck with my Eons. as i said the NX is cheaper than the regular EONs. I heard it at 2 stores...one was GC. I went to hear them fro the 2nd time and they only had 1. He looked it up and said only 1 store had them and it was a large GC... and it siad none available..which he said meant something was up. He said that is done when they are not going to getting anymore. then at a 2nd store I ws told about issues. i am friends with a JBL service guy and he said he was unaware but they did have several issues when they first came out. I'm not exactly sure how things work, someone like Agedhorse would have a legit answer... but this might be why the price on the PRX stuff is dropping? Maybe it is getting phased out? Also, I read JBL was competing against itself with the PRX versus EON line. PRX is made of better components, but because of the price points the two lines were competitors. Honestly, before I started investigating on my own I had heard of EONs just from seeing it around, but I had never heard of the PRX line. I see tons of EONs used by bands, but not PRX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted February 26, 2010 Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 We had EONs and JRX before moving to MRX/PRX. The EONS were loud and HARSH. I didn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rumorsband Posted February 26, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 Exactly- I bought the last EON line when it came out in December 08. I don't think the PRX was even on the JBL website at that time. I see EONS everywhere. I have yet to see a set of PRX being used by a band. I'm sure they do...I just don't see them that much. All the bands in the circuits I play are using Mackie and Yorkville and now the QSC K series. I heard 3 bands using what I just bought and they all sounded really good, that why I bought the Yorkville. I heard 2 bands with the QSC and I didn't like the sound from either.... and I just don't like Mackie unless you buy the top of the line series. hey if everyone bought JBL there would be no need for any other speaker company to exist...right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted February 26, 2010 Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 QSC, Yorkville & JBL all make good prosumer systems. Mackie, not so much. I believe that the bands you see might be a little farther down the totem pole then what we see for the most part in Chicago. We don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rumorsband Posted February 26, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 I am in Rhode Island. Not too far from NY and Canada so thats probably why Yorkville is so popular here...so is JBL...I agree...I see the SRX everywhere but never the PRX... not yet anyway. Even all the rental companies carry the Eons...because they are easy to use, plug a mic right in the back etc etc... (thats what they tell me) They say they fly off the shelf for rental purposes. i love the HPR also...a bit too heavy for me..as I have to carry everything alone. Thats why i am going with the NX720 even though I really liked the LS700 but its almost 100 pounds... too much for me..I'd need a nap after setting it up. How about the DBX Driverack PA unit? Anyone using one of those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted February 26, 2010 Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 I try to run as flat as possible and may tweak on the individual channels a bit here and there. I was amazed that the 12" Yorks actually required less EQ than the 15" JBL's I have NX55p's, and I have LS720 subs. The NX55p's are amazingly "full" sounding, even when EQ'd flat. Some like that sound, but I prefer to run them with the 100Hz roll-off engaged, sometimes even when I'm not using my subs. I've also EQ'd the low-end down 3dB, even after engaging the LF roll-off filter and no subs. Depends on the room/style of music. You'll also go a lot farther before limiting, if you engage the LF roll-off. I believe Al Poulin, one of our resident members and NX55p owner, prefers to run them "full", but he slightly boosts the 1kHz-4kHz range as I recall. Maybe Al will chime in. I love my NX55p's by the way. I do acoustic-guitar/vocals solo/duo type stuff, and for a guy looking to avoid hauling subs around, the NX55p is just the ticket as far as I'm concerned. PLENTY of bottom end, and nice smooth highs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted February 26, 2010 Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 I am in Rhode Island. Not too far from NY and Canada so thats probably why Yorkville is so popular here...so is JBL...I agree...I see the SRX everywhere but never the PRX... not yet anyway. Even all the rental companies carry the Eons...because they are easy to use, plug a mic right in the back etc etc... (thats what they tell me) They say they fly off the shelf for rental purposes. i love the HPR also...a bit too heavy for me..as I have to carry everything alone. Thats why i am going with the NX720 even though I really liked the LS700 but its almost 100 pounds... too much for me..I'd need a nap after setting it up. How about the DBX Driverack PA unit? Anyone using one of those? We use the Driverack 260. It Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rumorsband Posted February 26, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 Thats South County. we never go there...its too far. thats a RI joke...everything is too far. It takes a whole 45 minutes to go from one end of the state to the other ...but everything is too far. Thats down by the beaches...a real nice part of the state. I live in Scituate...we have lots of woods ... no beaches. Are you guys a power trio? Live drums etc? I'm doing sequencing only Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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