Recording live show off an Allen & Heath Mix Wiz- Best Way?

[wheresgrant3]

I should know this by now. We have a big show coming up and I play to video tape the entire performance... however I also want a seperate audio track of the event to sync in post.

 

In the past I've tried to capture the dry direct out FOH output with often disasterous or distorted results.

 

I have a handheld Zoom H4 recorder. I want to record a single track stereo recording using the XLR inputs for the Zoom recorder. It has to be a 'set it and forget' method so I won't have a huge opportunity to check output levels. Anyone have any advice or suggestions for capturing a basic recording.

 

Someone suggested forgoing going direct at all and using a lav mic attached to our FOH speaker. I imagine the recording levels will still be out of control even with low attenuation.

[jwlussow]

True stereo? We occasionally used an aux from our Mixwiz so we could tweak a little. Sometimes FOH sound is not good because the sound out front will include some stage volume. We did a few recordings where the drums or guitar were basically not in the mix at all. When we used an aux, we can compensate for the ambient stage volume. Spend some time the first time to tweak an aux for recording and you should be good to go.

[monkeyland]

your recorder has mics built right in. you should do that.

 

otherwise bring something capable of multi track and take the direct outs off of the channel strips and mix it later.

[Unalaska]

I'd second the dual mono idea. Another plan would be take the FOH mix and send it to a 4ch mixer, add 2 ambient mics (1/2 back, suspended from the cieling). There isn't a way to get a garunteed mix, you'll have to play with it but it's worth a shot.

[Rezrover]

Could get another mixer, take the direct outs from the MixWiz and put them into the individual channels of the other mixer and remix for the video.

 

Could get a computer interface and record the individual tracks on a laptop and remix whenever you get around to it.

 

Could do both with a second mixer with a Firewire output.....

 

Could just use a mixer with the Firewire output...

[StratGuy22]

Just stick it out front. That's what it's designed for.

 

[tuchan]

This is where the ZED series with the USB support would come in very handy for you.

 

Aux out to computer is what I would be looking into if you have the hardware and cables.

[wheresgrant3]

Just stick it out front. That's what it's designed for.

 

I've tried differen't placements using the Zoom and to be honest... event for an ambient room recording, it's never great. In fact it's barely passable. The mic on a Flip cam is actually brighter, tighter and more compressed. That being said... I'm not expecting insane results going into the board... I'm just hoping I have better results that mic ing using those tiny capsule mics.

[spottyaudio]

what do you run through the board, and what do you rely on stage volume to carry? I've noticed doing a feed from foh outs in a smallish place where you dont push the snare, guitar, and drum overhead into the mix very high that recording from foh outputs doesnt really work.

 

Right now i am using a gl2000 and only two monitor mixes for what we do, plus two effects, which leaves me two aux sends to send stereo out to a computer, minidisc, or into a handheld unit like your zoom.

 

This takes longer, requires a good solid sound check, consistant players, headphones, and patience, but does have very fine results when done well.

 

For another easier and faster option, have you considered running a pair of condensor mics into that zoom h4? i'm not sure if it has fantom power so you may need battery powered condensors like the atm10 or the sony offerings that i can not think of there name..but this might work better in your situation because you are now hearing your stage and foh mix, as well as being able to use better quality mics to capture it.

[lifeloverwg]

Dual mono off of two aux sends can work very well if you have some time before hand to play with levels and panning.

 

For instance, I found my recordings to be light in the bass frequencies at first as headphones don't do a very good job of blocking out the bass in the house compared to the mids and highs, so you need to mix them in heavier than you think.

 

Sometimes a house mic mixed in is nice for audience response and some reverb, but I usually find it's better when mixed in and out after the fact.

 

Good luck, Winston.

[banddad]

Assuming you are micing everything: I've used aux outputs 3 and 4, carefully monitored thru headphones, to send record outs. Sending the same thing to a recorder as to FOH usually ends up with something not so great, as stage presence tends to contribute something in all but the largest venues. I've gotten good enough for band critiquing, but not good enough to publish.

 

IIRC, the zoom can do 4 channels, the 2 mics and 2 xlr's. Try using the mics live, and xlr's from the board. But, you gotta try it first! Consider sending vocals to one channel, instruments to the other so you can balance them later. Can you at least proof out your recording methods during sound check? If set and forget volumes, err on the side of too quite.

 

Good luck!

[Randyman]

as Bandad just said, recording with 4 tracks is optimal: 2 tracks from the board, 2 tracks from the xlr mic inputs.

 

But if you've got the Zoom H4, it only records 2 tracks. The H4n records 4 tracks and i've heard even the built-in mics sound pretty decent.

 

When it comes to live sound I don't know how else you'd do it simply- 2 tracks are just not enough.

[monkeyland]

 

I've tried differen't placements using the Zoom and to be honest... event for an ambient room recording, it's never great. In fact it's barely passable. The mic on a Flip cam is actually brighter, tighter and more compressed. That being said... I'm not expecting insane results going into the board... I'm just hoping I have better results that mic ing using those tiny capsule mics.

 

 

in that case either the placement it still off, the room or FOH sound is bad or you have unrealistic expectations. I say this because a friend of mine owns one of those units and recorded my band with it recently and we agreed that it sounded pretty good. Sure it won't sound like a studio recording but really if thats what you want you would not be recording a live show.

[SpaceNorman]

I've recorded directly off my MixWiz into my H4 a couple of times in the past using a Aux sends 3 and 4 set up with a mix specific for recording. In every case - it was during a stretch when we between gigs and had the luxury of setting up a more complete rehearsal rig. If you have the time to tweak the mix ... you can get an "OK" result. Our experience was that the tweaking required to get an "OK" result was more than time and trouble than I'd ever consider trying to invest during a gig.

 

The "put use the onboard mics and put the Zoom somewhere out front" approach can work (we do this pretty regularly at practice) - but as others have stated - placement is crucial. Unfortunately, I've always found that the locations you need to place it for the best sound - are usually not a viable option when the public is there. It's either a security issue (unless you have somebody to guard the Zoom all night....) or a noise issue (more crowd noise than band noise...)

 

These days ... on the occasional gigs that I do try to use it to record a gig - I put it on stage - on a tripod and pointed so that is as "on axis" with a vocal monitor wedge as I can get it. The resulting recordings aren't great - but good enough for the band to more or less hear how things sounded.