Balanced output to unbalanced insert

[Count Dissident]

I need to hook a balanced effects unit to a mixer with unbalanced inserts. Will a XLR to TRS cable do the trick?

Thanks!

[laidback]

If you're inserting effects, you need an insert cable. It has a TRS on one end wired to 2 TS connectore on the other; one with Tip and Shield, the other with Ring and Shield connected. Most frequently the Tip/shield is the send (wired to effects input in your case) and ring/shield is the return (wired to effects output.) Your mixer may have a diagram on the rear panel showing the wiring convention.

If you have neough channels available, I prefer running effects from a post-fade aux and returning them to an unused channel using TRS cables.

[Count Dissident]

The effects unit only has XLR outputs and the mixer only has 1/4" insert and aux inputs. Would this cable work to make the connection? http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MSLCMX2/

[soul-x]

 

The effects unit only has XLR outputs and the mixer only has 1/4" insert and aux inputs. Would this cable work to make the connection? http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MSLCMX2/

 

 

Are you looking to use this effects unit on an insert or on an aux? It's a big distinction.

 

What unit is it? Generally, if it is being used for effects (and not dynamics processing), it would be used on a postfade aux.

[laidback]

You first need to know whether you want to insert the effects on a specific channel or mix. This is different than taking a signal from a post-fade aux and bringing it back to a channel or stereo input.

 

An insert jack interrupts the signal path, diverts it through some external device, then returns it back to the point where it came from. Also, if you insert effects on a channel, they will only be present on that single channel. Many boards also have inserts for the main mix. Effects inserted here will be present on the entire mix.

 

On the other hand, if you have a free aux send that can be set to post-fader, then you can set the amount of each individual channel is sent to the effects. The signal follows the aux, then out to an outboard device using a cable like you referenced, then back to some convenient input on the board-either a channel or a return, again using a cable like you referenced.

 

What board are you using? How do you plan to use the effects-for a single channel or several channels?

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

The effects unit only has XLR outputs and the mixer only has 1/4" insert and aux inputs. Would this cable work to make the connection? http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MSLCMX2/

 

maybe, maybe not.

 

I believe you'd want a cable that shorts pins 1 to pins 3 on the XLR connectors.

[Coaster]

 

The effects unit only has XLR outputs and the mixer only has 1/4" insert and aux inputs. Would this cable work to make the connection? http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MSLCMX2/

 

 

not if you want it to pass audio to and from an insert.

[Count Dissident]

Thank you for the responses! I was planning on using the aux to send the effects to the board and then controlling the amount of effects to each channel separately. The mixer is a Mackey Onyx 1640(old style,not the 1640i) and the effects unit I was thinking of buying is a TC Electronics M-One. I was planning to run each channel to a separate aux and running the effects independently.

 

As long as I am talking about this...what are your opinions of the M-One? I was also considering the Lexicon MX400 with its 4 in/4 out engine,but I am actually not a big fan on the the MX200. Is there another unit I should consider,even if I need to step up the price range?

[Coaster]

 

I was planning to run each channel to a separate aux

 

 

um.....your board has 16 auxes?

[Count Dissident]

On the other hand, if you have a free aux send that can be set to post-fader, then you can set the amount of each individual channel is sent to the effects. The signal follows the aux, then out to an outboard device using a cable like you referenced, then back to some convenient input on the board-either a channel or a return, again using a cable like you referenced.

 

[jgthatsme]

Who says the 1/4" jacks on the Mackie are unbalanced? I've had a couple different Mackie boards over the years and I'm fairly certain all or at least most of the 1/4" jacks were TRS.

 

If this is the board you're talking about - http://www.mackie.com/pdf/onyx1640_om.pdf - then the AUX sends and returns are balanced 1/4" TRS.

[Coaster]

 

No,each channel of the effects unit to a separate Aux send/return to apply post-fader effects controlled by each channel of the mixer separately. The same thing laidback was talking about earlier in the thread:

 

 

you need to seriously come up with some terminology that makes sense. this entire thread is about responding to information that doesnt make sense. you talk about inserts, then you seem to call auxes "separate" for each channel (they are not), then you call auxes send/return all the while claiming they are unbalanced when that is atypical.

 

basically no one has any idea what you are doing and so far everyone has been too nice to say anything about it.

 

you need to state specifically what mixer you are using, and exactly the manner in which you want to hook these items together. inserts are not auxes.

[Rezrover]

Where are you gonna plug this in at?

[laidback]

It doesn't sound like you're "inserting" effects, which to me would mean using the channel insert jacks. Lets say you're planning to run a reverb on several channels of vocals. As you said, you'd wire the effects unit from one of the board aux outs to the effects input. You'd connect the effects out to either a return of a channel input (make the channel is not routed to the aux!)

As far as what kind of cable to use, consult the owners manual to determine if the board outputs are balanced or not. You're probably OK with a TRS to XLR.

One more suggestion: Go to the Soundcraft site and download the "Guide to Mixing" booklet in their Support section. It has some useful daigrams and is a good concise read.

I'm having a hard time imagining using a 4-engine effects device. I generally use a single reverb, occassionally two.

[Count Dissident]

OK thanks again for the info. The Aux send/returns are balanced (as jgthatsme stated) and I will not be using the channel inserts...my mistake. I was planning to go from the left output of the M-one XL to the Aux return 1(in Rezrover's picture above,bottom right) then from the Aux send 1 back to the Left return of the effects unit. Same scenario with the effect units right channel to the mixer Aux send /return 2. Then I was planning to control the effects levels for each channel with the Aux knobs dedicated to a particular channel. I guess the question would be...is this is a good effects route and would a XLR to TRS be the correct cable?

 

Coaster...sorry my terminology isn't up to your standards and as far as "being too nice to tell me" goes,I am pretty sure I can handle it. If I knew everything,I wouldn't need to ask. I didn't realize that this forum is for people that know everything to talk to each other about how much they already know.I had previously stated which mixer I have and which effects unit I was planning to hook to it. I am looking for the best route and the cables to do it with.

 

Laidback...Thanks for seeing past my mistakes and helping me with info that I can use.Also,thanks for the info on the Soundcraft "Guide to Mixing"...I will definitely check that out.

[laidback]

This place can seem harsh sometimes; just remember it's the internet and it's not personal. There's a ton of knowledgeable folks here.

I don't think what you described will work. Signal path should be Aux Send (and you most likely want to select a post-fade aux) - to- effects input. Many effects units will give a stereo output. If that's the case with yours, connect the L & R effects outputs to an Aux return L & R.

I get lost when talk about "returns" on the effects unit. Maybe they're labeled that way, but I've always seen effects connections labeled as inputs and outputs. Do you understand returns on the board? Aux 1 return has nothing to do with Aux 1 send; they're completely different. A return is just a stripped-down input,which is why I suggested using a spare channel if there's one available. That way you have Eq available and a fader to control the effects level going to mix. If you don't have any spare channels, what you describe will work if you mean "...then from Aux send 1 back to the left INPUT of the effects unit." Also,

many effects units will have a stereo pair of outputs for each input. You use just the one labelled for mono, or you can eat 2 returns or channels, or if your board has stereo returns you can just plug them up and go.

 

 

 

 

OK thanks again for the info. The Aux send/returns are balanced (as jgthatsme stated) and I will not be using the channel inserts...my mistake. I was planning to go from the left output of the M-one XL to the Aux return 1(in Rezrover's picture above,bottom right) then from the Aux send 1 back to the Left return of the effects unit. Same scenario with the effect units right channel to the mixer Aux send /return 2. Then I was planning to control the effects levels for each channel with the Aux knobs dedicated to a particular channel. I guess the question would be...is this is a good effects route and would a XLR to TRS be the correct cable? Coaster...sorry my terminology isn't up to your standards and as far as "being too nice to tell me" goes,I am pretty sure I can handle it. If I knew everything,I wouldn't need to ask. I didn't realize that this forum is for people that know everything to talk to each other about how much they already know.I had previously stated which mixer I have and which effects unit I was planning to hook to it. I am looking for the best route and the cables to do it with. Laidback...Thanks for seeing past my mistakes and helping me with info that I can use.Also,thanks for the info on the Soundcraft "Guide to Mixing"...I will definitely check that out.

 

[Count Dissident]

This place can seem harsh sometimes; just remember it's the internet and it's not personal. There's a ton of knowledgeable folks here. I don't think what you described will work. Signal path should be Aux Send (and you most likely want to select a post-fade aux) - to- effects input. Many effects units will give a stereo output. If that's the case with yours, connect the L & R effects outputs to an Aux return L & R. I get lost when talk about "returns" on the effects unit. Maybe they're labeled that way, but I've always seen effects connections labeled as inputs and outputs. Do you understand returns on the board? Aux 1 return has nothing to do with Aux 1 send; they're completely different. A return is just a stripped-down input,which is why I suggested using a spare channel if there's one available. That way you have Eq available and a fader to control the effects level going to mix. If you don't have any spare channels, what you describe will work if you mean "...then from Aux send 1 back to the left INPUT of the effects unit." Also, many effects units will have a stereo pair of outputs for each input. You use just the one labelled for mono, or you can eat 2 returns or channels, or if your board has stereo returns you can just plug them up and go.

 

Ok,now I am getting more confused...lol. I'm not sure if your info is contradicting this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aux-send but this is the idea I was trying to follow. Basically,I am trying to do a "dual-mono" setup with a send/return from the mixer Aux 1 to the left input/output of the effects unit and then the same with mixer Aux 2 and the right input/output of the effects unit. This way I can control each effect separately with the Aux 1 and Aux 2 knobs on each channel. It is showed in the manual for the Lexicon MX200 on page 8...link: http://www.lexiconpro.com/product_downloads/12/manuals/MX200Manual_B.pdf

 

Now if this is not my best routing option for hooking up an effects unit to the Mackie Onyx 1640 (pictured in Rezover's post) I would certainly be open to other options. I liked the idea of of using a spare channel on the board but I am pretty confused on how to do that.

 

Sorry if my questions are noobish...that is why I ask for help from the fine,knowledgeable people on this forum,even if Coaster is mean to me!! j/k

Thanks again!!

-Count

[Coaster]

i'm not being mean. i feel no ill will toward you, i just pointed out that your question makes no sense and therefore cannot be answered. quite frankly it still cant because you have further confused the issue a couple posts back.

 

remember - details make or break a system. terminology is crucial. it sounds like you are close to hooking this up but lack some level of understanding basic signal flow and routing; you dont hook up the FX unit back to the send like you seem to imply - the send goes to the FX unit's INPUT, then the fx units OUTPUT goes back to an incoming channel (or aux return) on the mixer.

 

so if you have 4 aux SENDS, then:

 

AUX SEND 1 > FX INPUT 1 :: FX OUTPUT 1 > AUX RETURN 1 (or any, doesnt matter)

AUX SEND 2 > FX INPUT 2 :: FX OUTPUT 2 > AUX RETURN 2

AUX SEND 3 > FX INPUT 3 :: FX OUTPUT 3 > AUX RETURN 3

AUX SEND 4 > FX INPUT 4 :: FX OUTPUT 4 > AUX RETURN 4

 

this will give you four effects sends and four fx returns. and please do not buy monster cable. call up mark at EWI and he will send you superior cables, in fact you should order a custom snake for this.

[Count Dissident]

i'm not being mean. i feel no ill will toward you, i just pointed out that your question makes no sense and therefore cannot be answered. quite frankly it still cant because you have further confused the issue a couple posts back. remember - details make or break a system. terminology is crucial. it sounds like you are close to hooking this up but lack some level of understanding basic signal flow and routing; you dont hook up the FX unit back to the send like you seem to imply - the send goes to the FX unit's INPUT, then the fx units OUTPUT goes back to an incoming channel (or aux return) on the mixer. so if you have 4 aux SENDS, then: AUX SEND 1 > FX INPUT 1 :: FX OUTPUT 1 > AUX RETURN 1 (or any, doesnt matter) AUX SEND 2 > FX INPUT 2 :: FX OUTPUT 2 > AUX RETURN 2 AUX SEND 3 > FX INPUT 3 :: FX OUTPUT 3 > AUX RETURN 3 AUX SEND 4 > FX INPUT 4 :: FX OUTPUT 4 > AUX RETURN 4 this will give you four effects sends and four fx returns. and please do not buy monster cable. call up mark at EWI and he will send you superior cables, in fact you should order a custom snake for this.

 

It's all good brother,I am not upset...and I was kidding about you being mean. Ok,this is what I was trying to ask in the first place but lacked the terminology to say it. I appreciate the detailed response! It is much clearer to me now. I will also take into consideration what you have said about the monster cables,but for the sake of knowing...the XLR to TRS would definitely be the cable to use in the situation where the effects unit has balanced XLR input/outputs and the mixer has balanced 1/4' send/returns,correct?

[Coaster]

yes.

 

i looked and:

 

MX400 is TRS i/o

MX200 is TRS i/o

M-ONE is XLR i/o

[Bugzie]

but that will depend on which M-One he has. The M-one has 1/4" and the M-one XL has XLR. Count, the M-One is a pretty decent unit which ever one you have.