Monitor frequencies questions

[msmooth]

We have four piece classic rock/oldies/country group (2 guitars, bass and drums). We are running vocals only through system. I have 31 band eq for monitors.

 

First question: I realize that each room will change the problem frequencies, but was wondering if there are certain frequencies that are a good place to start when adjusting the eq?

 

My second question: Are there any frequencies at the low end (below 80 htz) and high end (above 10,000 htz) that could be cut to increase headroom since the human voice does not cover the full sound spectrum? I thank you for any help.

[twostone]

I have FB trainer link on Goober's guild you can download and practice learning to notch out FB. Sorry there's no written in stone which frequency cut. It will be different in every room.

Usually most GEQ's have 40 Hz switch you can engage. Not sure what kind of mixer you have if it has 80 Hz or 100 Hz HPF switch can be use on your vocal channels.

[lifeloverwg]

No, there aren't any standard frequencies that are universally "problematic". Except that you will likely find that you have your own problem frequencies that tend to come up, but that is due to the frequency responses of your mics and monitors and how they interact. Say you have a mic with a peak in it's off axis frequency respsonce at 3 khz, if your monitors also have a peak in their response at 3 khz then that is likely going to be a problematic frequency for you no matter what the room does. So in a sense there are problematic frequencies, but they are system dependent rather than common to everyone.

 

I recommend setting up your mics and monitors in a practice space or even your living room and practice ringing out the monitor system with your 31 band EQ when it's not right before a gig and you aren't annoying the paying crowd while trying to learn your way around. You should also play around with changing monitor placement and mic angle as that can often solve problems without needing to cut as much of the spectrum out of the monitor mix.

 

Having a good HPF on your monitors will really help clear up the sound of vocal monitors by getting rid of stage rumble and low frequency energy that tends to muddy up the sound, but I wouldn't expect it to add much in the way of "headroom" if all you have in the monitors is vocals. As for the real high end, you aren't using much power reproducing those frequencies anyway and some of the crispy sibilance is what helps distinguish the consonants in speech and vocals on a noisy stage so I wouldn't usually be looking to totally get rid of them.

[JohnnyGraphic]

Just my personal preference, especially on monitors, is to pull some of the lower frequencies out. 250 hz and around 80 hz seem to be problematic. If you can do a Low Cut, try about 80 or 100 hz and below. Try not to pull too many frequencies out with the 31 band as you will soon wind up with vocals that just don't sound right. What sounds good just by itself, may not sound good with the whole band going. So, experiment and try different approaches. It might be easier to find pleasing frequencies by using the channel strip first-so you can get a quick sweep of frequencies to cut/boost, by using the mains out on your mixer. Sometimes it tough when you're staring at 31 sliders.

 

Also, most of the time, it works best to cut rather than boost. But, as with all things, your mileage may very.

 

Johnny

[Dogoth]

 

My second question: Are there any frequencies at the low end (below 80 htz) and high end (above 10,000 htz) that could be cut to increase headroom since the human voice does not cover the full sound spectrum? I thank you for any help.

 

 

Cutting low frequencies will indeed solve you a LOT of problems (and amplifier power as well). I start with a 100hz high pass (low cut) filter on everything and go from there. I usualy lower the freq to 35 or 40hz for kick, bass and other bass instruments and increase the cut off frequency for female vocalists, some horns and other soprano type instruments (I've gone as high as 250hz for a soprano and 600hz for drum overheads). This not only saves you amplifier power but helps clean up the "mud" in a mix (it also helps a lot with vocal plosives (pops)).

 

Cutting high frequency does practicly nothing in saving amplifier power and should more often be done selectivly to solve feedback and/or acoustic issues. and yes some of the articulation of the spoken or sung word is very high frequencies (try "S" or the leading edge of a "T" for instance - it's called sibilance)

 

hope this helps.

[msmooth]

Thanks for the responses. My board is Allen & Heath Mix wizard and does have 100 htz cutoff filter, which I will make sure is engaged.

[Scodiddly]

For the most part it'll be different every night, but over time you'll probably find frequencies that you keep pulling down. Don't assume that you should always start with a hacked-up graphic, though.

 

Actually you may find something in the lower frequencies that depends on ceiling height - something like 110Hz for a 10 foot ceiling at a place where I used to mix a lot.

[msmooth]

I know what you mean. Every room has what I have heard called a standing frequency. One restaurant we used to play in I found when the bassist hit a B or C (7th or 8th fret) of the low E string. There was loud woof. It was weird, because it was not near as bad when he played teh same note on teh A string. I had him go up the neck on the E string until it happend. When we found it, he played the not again as I cut eq frequencies. I would cut, and if nothing happend put that slider back to flat and move on until we found it, which took 5 or 6 tries.

[Iowaguy]

Since lower frequencies are fairly nondirectional, the mains often provide plenty of the lowest frequencies at the monitor position so you can roll off even higher frequencies than are provided for by the HPF button of 80 or 100 Hz. The amount of low frequencies you can cut depends on the room, distance to mains etc. I just keep rolling off lower sliders in a rising curve until vocals sound thin or un-natural and then bring back a little until it I like it. This gets rid of lower frequency mush and really cleans up the monitor sound. Then I ring out the monitor 31 band eq once or twice to locate and notch out any potentially offending frequencies. This gets rid of any low level ringing and allows for more monitor gain later on if needed.

[W. M. Hellinger]

What's it pay?

 

Not that really matters because chances are your reputation in the market will be based on performance, not the pay for the services rendered... but that's a different topic.

[msmooth]

Thanks for all of the responses. We were able to go to the local Moose club this afternoon and set up our full Band and PA for practice. I got to dial the board in before we paly our 1st job. I had cut every 100 htz and below out of the monitors before we started but it sounded a little thin so I added some 100 and 80 htz back into the monitor mix and they sounded much fuller. I was able to get a nice monitor mix with no feedback (that everyone was happy with) and a good FOH mix. It took a while, but well worth it.