Tuners (Tuning Keys/Gears)

[TRU]

Is there anything I need to know before attempting to swap tuner sets from one guitar to the other? In the past, I'd have my techs do this when I'd bring acoustcis in for tune-ups, new nuts, etc. But I figured, why bother if I can do it myself. Worst that can happen is they dont fit and I put them back on the original guitars, right...or not. Am I missing something? Is this a tech-only type of thing?

And no...there are no 3-on-a-plate sets. 

I have Kluson white snaps that I had put on an old Yamaha. Now I got an Art n Lutherie Ami and I waould like to put said Klusons onto this.

[WRGKMC]

A picture says a hundred words. There are about a dozen or more different types of Klusons and probably a hundred different replacement options. Without knowing exactly what you have its difficult to make suggestions.

Some Klusons were great and many were garbage. There are some rules of thumb I use when changing out tuners. The first is I want to get a high ratio tuner when ever possible. A guitar is going to be allot harder to tune using a 12:1 ratio in comparison to a 18:1. The ratio expresses how many turns on the peg makes one revolution on the string shaft. The higher the ratio,  the more gradual the change in string pitch as you turn the key. This can make for more precise tuning vs. having big jumps in pitch using a low gear ratio.

Many Klusons have a low gear ratio, and they can have gears with allot of schlock, This causes tuning to jump when tuning down in pitch because there a gap in the gear teeth and down tuning may take a quarter of half turn for the gear to engage and then the string jumps the gap.

Your better tuners have High ratios and a tight gear mesh so you don't have the pitch jump tuning up and down, its smooth in both directions. Real Klusion are usually better than clones with some exceptions like Gotahs. Older Klusons had a back on them that was held in place by metal tabs that held the tuner together. As the casing gets loose, the tuning key spiral gear separates with the peg gear and it makes for bad tuning. If the tuner gets accidentally bumped those tabs can bend loose making the keys worthless. The screw inside that holds the string peg gear in place can also come loose.

Often times you can take the tuners apart by bending the tabs up being careful not to break them off, then tightening the peg gear screw, relubricating the gears with thick grease and reassembling them tightly with the tabs. This is usually the procedure for restoring vintage tuners. You can have the casing wear out where the string peg goes through the casing. If the string peg gear is tight and the string peg is still wobbly, then its usually toast and needs to be replaced.

Sealed die cast tuners threaded bushings also have a range of problems. Some are made of potted metal like Fender tuners, and overtightening the bushing can crack the casing. The bushings for the buttons are very critical. Cheap imports use plastic bushings which are total garbage. They either have too little or too much friction. Your better tuners use nylon washers, small metal washers and pressure washers so when you tighten the button it gradually adds resistance to keep the tuners from turning on their own.

Several types of locking tuners are a complete waste of money. Tuners don't spin on their own especially if the gear ratio is high. You can pull on the string all you want and you wont get the button to spin. The key is to use a good string wrap in the peg that locks the string so it can't slip.

The shaft length above the headstock is another critical item. If the pegs are too high, the strings can jump out of the nut, make poor contact and loose vibration or buzz badly. Leo got it right when he used the short split Klusons on the headstocks because that kept the strings tight against the headstock. When they started installing taller pegs with through hoes the strings were farther off the head stock so adding a second string tree was necessary to keep downward pressure. This adds friction tuning and with the use of a whammy bar thinner strings may not come back into pitch.

Sealed tuners also have that button on the back that isn't removable without damaging it. Its a very stupid assed design because sealed tuners do have the screw inside loosen up or needs tightening as the tuners wear. I've had instances where I've drilled small hones in the disks so I could pull them off, to relube and tighten the gears. This made the tuners perform well again. I used CA and metal filings to seal the hole up again,the sand them so it wasn't noticeable and reinstalled them. It wasn't the perfect cosmetic fix but it worked well enough and saved replacing perfectly good tuners.

You can replace Klusons that use a press in bushing with newer modern tuners, but you have to drill the holes out so you can fit the threaded bushing through. The bigger problem is the holes and casing impressions of the Klusons will still be visible. This is why its usually better to first attempt to repair the originals or use good quality Kluson replacements. As I said Gotah are one of the best, as are the original Klusons. I wouldn't waste my money on the generics. They often wind up being worse than the beat tuners you're taking off or wind up being that bad in a very short time dure to the cheap metals the generics use.

The do make a Kluson type tuner that has a locking nut and look like standard Klusons with the pearl buttons from the back. I Have these on my 40th Anniversary Les Paul and I advise everyone not to be tempted to using them. They are the worst tuners ever made. I'm on my third set because I want to keep the guitar all original.

The first set lasted 5 years before the tuners loosened up and the low E string spun loose. Upon removing I found the covers are riveted in place and the cheap potted metal base let the rivet pop through, likely when a tuner took a bump. I replaced the first set with an identical set brand new and they were gappy right out of the box. I maybe got two years out of them and I don't even play that guitar much.

I gave it one more try recently and bought some Gotah replacements. So far they are holding up but for the cost of $55 the quality still isn't very good and I don't see them lasting any longer than the originals. When you spend $1500 on a guitar they should have tuners that last a lifetime. At least with the older Klusons you could take them apart and tighten them up. With rivets the only way to get the covers off is drilling the rivet off and then there's no way to get the covers back on.

The tuners are also too high so you need to wrap too much string on the shafts to bring the breakaway angle down to where it should be. Bad design and Gibson should be ashamed of themselves for installing such trash on their high end guitars.

I think I may use conversion bushings that fit in the larger holes and put standard Gibson Klusons on the guitar next time. They are lower to the headstock as well which is needed to get the proper tone and string tension.

Those are just some of the issues you can have. Be sure to remove a tuner and make measurements on the hole side and the shaft length. Go with an exact replacement or like I said, the Gotah makes a quality kluson. Stay away from the generics. You may save $10 on the cost but wind up in worse shape than you began with. You can scout around on EBay and buy a set of the real Klusons for around $30 and the Gotahs for maybe a little more.