E-MU EMULATOR X2 (software sampler)

[Overdrive1]

The thing is I only want to sweep the cutoff and resonance with a midi controller but on Emulator X2 you can't do it with any of the programmable morphing filters.

 

I know this can be done as I can do it on my E-mu Ultra samplers with EOS 4.7 but they lack the morph filter designer. Plus I don't really like the lowpass filters you get as standard but the ones you can make yourself in morph filter designer are quite cool!

[Tidda]

Well, you are sweeping the actual frequency and resonance when you have filter frequency selected as a destination in the modulation matrix. It's just mislabeled and should read 'morph (%)' IMO.

 

How did it work on the EOS 4.7 then? Morphing ctrl + filter freq ctrl + resonance ctrl all going on at the same time seems very complicated to me, not only to handle for the sampler, but also to control live. That is of course if I understand correctly that that is what you want to do

Also I'm curious as to how the X2 compares to the different hardware models, especially the filters.

 

Tidda

 

Patch request to E-mu:

Can we have the values displayed in the destination boxes in the 'cords' section of the Voice Processing page change to the context of the filter type that is set in the filter section? (e.g. 'Filter Resonance becomes Body Size) In the pop-up selector as well of course. If you add all posibilities and grey out the ones that are not applicable, the number of modulation sources would look even bigger than it already is

[Overdrive1]

The 2 controls are totally seperate, there's nothing complicated about it. In the cords section when morph filters are being used or any filter for that matter, filter frequency controls the morph/cutoff frequency and filter resonance controls the resonance/q /gain etc.

Taken from Emualtor X2 manual:-

 

Filter Frequency - Controls the frequency (or morph) of the filter.

 

Realtime Resonance - Realtime control of filter resonance (Q, gain, body size).

 

Filter Resonance - Filter resonance control which is set at note-on time only.

 

On the Ultra series you only had the option of selecting Filter Frequency or Filter Resonance as a destination in the cord section but when they released EOS 4.7 you were able to control the resonance in realtime if using a midi controller. Before 4.7 you were only able to modualte the resonance at note on values meaning that you will only hear a change in the resonance level when you play a new note.

 

All I want to do is connect 2 midi controllers, 1 to control filter frequency and the other to control filter resonance. The same as you typically find on a standard synth, its just that I want to do it on a lowpass filter created using morph designer.

 

EG:- midi a>filter frequency midi b>filter resonance

 

The same should be possible on Emulator X especially with the realtime resonance control.

 

As for the difference between the filters on the hardware vs software. I loaded a bass that I made on my E4Xt Ultra into the Emulator X2 and had them playing side by side. With the bass solo'd the Ultra sounded better but in the context of a mix the Emulator X sounded better. The hardware version sounded a bit flat in comparison, like there may have been some clipping going on. I have not had time to do a full comparison on all filters but from what I've heard they are very similar, and both do a great job.

[Tidda]

Taken from Emualtor X2 manual:- Filter Frequency - Controls the frequency (or morph) of the filter. Realtime Resonance - Realtime control of filter resonance (Q, gain, body size). Filter Resonance - Filter resonance control which is set at note-on time only.

 

I did not find the exact quote in the manual, but for the morphing filters, Realtime Resonance doesn't control Q. I get my info from p.138 and p.139 on the right hand side. The little diamond notes give the translation between the real parameter and what you must select to control it.

There's no 'Realtime Resonance' to be found on the right side of any of the equal signs, only Filt.Resonance.

And in this context that's the (specific) destination value, not either realtime or initial resonance destinations.

 

I would like to extend my patch request to E-mu. Please grey out the realtime resonance in the cords section when the filter has no use for it. We should still be able to select it though, in case of a filter override.

 

Now to get to the real issue, why no realtime resonance control in the morph designer?

 

Maybe best illustrated with p.136 of the manual Explore the Morph designer, after setting up a first (LP) stage. and I quote:

 

10. Now play the keyboard and turn the Morph wheel. You have just created the classic synthesizer lowpass filter response, but in case the Q turns up automatically when you change the filter frequency. If you turn up the Q Wheel, you get even more Q. (the Q control adds to Lo and Hi Q settings.)

 

So why no realtime Q control? Because it adds to Lo and Hi Q settings. That is 12 settings. Not only that, the Morph wheel is at a certain point as well, so the real 6 Q settings have to be interpolated from the 12 that you want to change in realtime.

 

So my well educated guess is that it's too hard on the CPU and implementing it would destroy the reputation of the filters.

Currently the Morph Designer counts as a 12th order filter (max). That is dividing polyphony by 3 already.

 

Tidda

[Overdrive1]

Well I know what I'm doing with the E-mu filters and cords section, I have been using them for nearly 10 years, even if I don't always explain myself very well.

 

Now if anyone from E-mu actually knows for a fact why you cannot control the filter resonance parameter cord destination otherwise known as gain/expression/q/peak on the morphing filters in realtime please respond.

 

Tbh I have nothing else to say on the matter unless someone can give a factual based answer.

 

PS:- For anyone thats interested here is a comparison between the 4 Pole High Pass Filter on the E4XT Ultra and Emulator X2, there is quite a big difference.

 

Download comparison here. http://www.sendspace.com/file/0x0uts

[ICHi]

Now if anyone from E-mu actually knows for a fact why you cannot control the filter resonance parameter cord destination otherwise known as gain/expression/q/peak on the morphing filters in realtime please respond.

***Sorry so late guys, tradeshow season:eek:

The reason that we went with the conservative approach in regards real time rez in morphing filter types is for safety. As these exotic filters can be unstable we didn't want folks blowing up speakers or damaging hearing. We actually added per voice limiters for Morph Designer just in case.

 

No promises or dates, but we will look into this problem again to see if we can make it happen in a future update. Thanks for the feedback.

 

Best,

ICHi

E-MU Systems

[hallowed1]

Has anyone been successful with importing any Giga libraries or files into Emu X 2?

[tarvini]

Has anyone been successful with importing any Giga libraries or files into Emu X 2?

 

I'm not sure what the deal is exactly, but I had trouble importing the giga files that came bundled with Giga. However, I had no trouble at all importing files converted from Roland s7x > giga with the Chickensys Translator (BTW Chickensys wrote the e-mu import routines... may or may not have anything to do with it).

 

I do not own any commercial Giga libraries (other than the bundled ones) to test with. If anyone can try this, there are at least two people who would be very interested in the results Perhaps someone from E-mu could comment on this as well.

[ross g]

 

I talked to the E-Mu folks at AES, and they said the legibility thing was due to being locked in to bit-mapped graphics, which is something they plan to change in the future.

 

 

 

any word about this in the new version? i agree, way too small...the karoke function looks fun, but nothing to upgrade for...this a difficult choice: if you don't keep up with the versions now, will it be too expensive later?

[ICHi]

I'm not sure what the deal is exactly, but I had trouble importing the giga files that came bundled with Giga. However, I had no trouble at all importing files converted from Roland s7x > giga with the Chickensys Translator (BTW Chickensys wrote the e-mu import routines... may or may not have anything to do with it). I do not own any commercial Giga libraries (other than the bundled ones) to test with. If anyone can try this, there are at least two people who would be very interested in the results Perhaps someone from E-mu could comment on this as well.

***The current translator only supports GS2 format, so make sure your not trying to convert GS3. The GS2 conversion was done jointly by ChickenSys and E-MU and is very good based on our testing. If folks find any problems please let us know specifically what title and what part of the conversion and we can look into improvements.

 

 

Best,

ICHi

E-MU Systems

[tarvini]

 

***The current translator only supports GS2 format, so make sure your not trying to convert GS3. ... Best, ICHi E-MU Systems

 

 

Thanks, they (the GS bundled sounds) were indeed GS3, and GS2 works fine. Is there a program that can convert GS3 to GS2 that you know of? I actually own GStudio but it wont run without a "GStudio Compatible" card (which you-know-what is not unfortunately), and it stopped working, anyway, after an upgrade hosed the licensing somehow ("this product is already registered" or somesuch... then aborts").

[ICHi]

any word about this in the new version? i agree, way too small...the karoke function looks fun, but nothing to upgrade for...this a difficult choice: if you don't keep up with the versions now, will it be too expensive later?

***Are you talking about X1.x to X2 or X2 to the new X2.1(also to be released as EX2 platinum)?

 

If the former there are massive changes that are definitely worth the money.

The highlights of X2

-Morph Filter Designer

-TwistaLoop

-SynthSwipe

-Transform Multiply

 

If it's the latter the changes are more subtle but nonetheless substantial

The highlights of X2.1

-Xplode (beat slicer with MIDI and tempo map export)

-Xtractor (dsp tool that allows you to isolate, edit or remove things in a mix)

-X64/Vista support

-Native 64-bit version of standalone and VSTi

-Multi-Core, Multi-Thread optimized (substantial peformance gains)

-Library has been optimized (substantial speed increase)

-Streaming engine optimizations

 

We can't say specifically how we will price future upgrades but we will always try to make it as affordable as possible. If what we've done up to now is any indicator, incremental upgrades have been free, major new features have been 79 bucks. We think this is pretty reasonable.

 

 

Best,

ICHi

E-MU Systems

[ross g]

 

any word about this in the new version? i agree, way too small...the karoke function looks fun, but nothing to upgrade for...this a difficult choice: if you don't keep up with the versions now, will it be too expensive later? ***Are you talking about X1.x to X2 or X2 to the new X2.1(also to be released as EX2 platinum)? If the former there are massive changes that are definitely worth the money. The highlights of X2 -Morph Filter Designer -TwistaLoop -SynthSwipe -Transform Multiply If it's the latter the changes are more subtle but nonetheless substantial The highlights of X2.1 -Xplode (beat slicer with MIDI and tempo map export) -Xtractor (dsp tool that allows you to isolate, edit or remove things in a mix) -X64/Vista support -Native 64-bit version of standalone and VSTi -Multi-Core, Multi-Thread optimized (substantial peformance gains) -Library has been optimized (substantial speed increase) -Streaming engine optimizations We can't say specifically how we will price future upgrades but we will always try to make it as affordable as possible. If what we've done up to now is any indicator, incremental upgrades have been free, major new features have been 79 bucks. We think this is pretty reasonable. Best, ICHi E-MU Systems

 

 

sorry, i have X2 atm...not planning on upgrading my computer for now...

 

i'm most interested in resizing the screens etc:

 

(Originally Posted by Anderton

"I talked to the E-Mu folks at AES, and they said the legibility thing was due to being locked in to bit-mapped graphics, which is something they plan to change in the future")

 

 

the new functions look fun, but i'm pretty happy with X2 atm (besides what's been mentioned)

 

rg

[fetishfrog]

If the multi-core support reduces the CPU load when running as a vsti, the price with be worth it to me. The extra sound sets will be the icing.

 

Can I assume that the 32bit version will still install on x64 and run as a vsti in 32 bit hosts, as it does currently? Also, will I be able to install both the 32 and 64 bit versions on x64?

 

I may switch to 64 bit Sonar once the update is released, but I may not if too many plugin conflicts exist. Bit-bridge performance in 64 bit Sonar has been a little touch and go with some plugins.

 

Sounds like a great upgrade though!!! When???

[ICHi]

 

sorry, i have X2 atm...not planning on upgrading my computer for now...

 

i'm most interested in resizing the screens etc:

***Unfortunately dynamic resizing will be difficult as long as we try to make both Standalone and VSTi as VSTi does not allow for dynamic resizing. It's still quite risky to assume that all users are using resolutions above 1024X768 so one way or another we are going to have to decide to leave people behind.

 

What screen rez are you currently using? Also what in the UI do you find small and that needs the most attention? There are several ways to solve the problem but we need to think about all users.

 

Best,

ICHi

E-MU Systems

[ross g]

 

sorry, i have X2 atm...not planning on upgrading my computer for now... i'm most interested in resizing the screens etc: ***Unfortunately dynamic resizing will be difficult as long as we try to make both Standalone and VSTi as VSTi does not allow for dynamic resizing. It's still quite risky to assume that all users are using resolutions above 1024X768 so one way or another we are going to have to decide to leave people behind. What screen rez are you currently using? Also what in the UI do you find small and that needs the most attention? There are several ways to solve the problem but we need to think about all users. Best, ICHi E-MU Systems

 

 

thanks for your quick replies...

 

 

1280 x 1024 is my resolution...i've played with adjusting the screen res as suggested in an earlier post, and also thought of getting one of those monitor extendo-arms to simply move the screen closer (my eyes ain't so good)...i like working at full res, it's just sharper and everything is where it should be...i just think things are a little too small and hard to read overall, all the small text, and not being able to open the window larger when sample editing seems to be against the norm...

 

i understand what you're saying about standalone vs. VSTi, would it make sense to have standard (or even smaller) VSTi window and resizable standalone? i know next to nothing about about these things, i'm just an old audio guy that used the old Emax II and Sound Designer setup on a nubus mac...i'm overall very happy with X2, it's very powerful and a few workarounds ain't gonna kill me...i dunno though, decent LCD monitors are pretty darn cheap nowadays...

 

 

on another topic: what does Beat Xplode do that Twistaloop don't? does it allow one to apply different grooves to a beat? and what exactly does the "karoke function" (sorry, don't remember what it's called) do that the normal voice removal function doesn't?

 

thanks much,

rg

[ICHi]

Thanks, they (the GS bundled sounds) were indeed GS3, and GS2 works fine. Is there a program that can convert GS3 to GS2 that you know of? I actually own GStudio but it wont run without a "GStudio Compatible" card (which you-know-what is not unfortunately), and it stopped working, anyway, after an upgrade hosed the licensing somehow ("this product is already registered" or somesuch... then aborts").

***No only GS2 now. But if there is enough demand I think you will find that translator companies like ChickeySys will add it to their Translator software. Just go visit their sites and let them know.

 

Best Regards,

ICHi

E-MU Systems

[ICHi]

 

thanks for your quick replies...

 

 

1280 x 1024 is my resolution...i've played with adjusting the screen res as suggested in an earlier post, and also thought of getting one of those monitor extendo-arms to simply move the screen closer (my eyes ain't so good)...i like working at full res, it's just sharper and everything is where it should be...i just think things are a little too small and hard to read overall, all the small text, and not being able to open the window larger when sample editing seems to be against the norm...

 

i understand what you're saying about standalone vs. VSTi, would it make sense to have standard (or even smaller) VSTi window and resizable standalone? i know next to nothing about about these things, i'm just an old audio guy that used the old Emax II and Sound Designer setup on a nubus mac...i'm overall very happy with X2, it's very powerful and a few workarounds ain't gonna kill me...i dunno though, decent LCD monitors are pretty darn cheap nowadays...

***Thanks for your feedback.

 

on another topic: what does Beat Xplode do that Twistaloop don't? does it allow one to apply different grooves to a beat? and what exactly does the "karoke function" (sorry, don't remember what it's called) do that the normal voice removal function doesn't?

***Xplode is basically a non-destructive beat slicer. Using the Twistaloop beat analysis and note/beat markers you can segment the audio chopped by amplitude level, or note subdivisions(1/4, 1/8, 1/16T)..etc) then spray them to keys in various ways(start x key, white keys, black keys, chromatic). You can now perform parts or slices of a rhythmic sample in any order by triggering them on different keys. Utiling the Voice Region editor the segmentation can be reedited at any time because regions are just start/stop markers with looping. This tool allow so many possibilities to turn 8 bars into 4 minutes.

 

There is also an option to Xport a midi file to replay the slices and a tempo map of the groove which can be applied as a conductor track in a DAW to "groove" the timeline.

 

TwistaLoop is our new Advanced Tempo and Beat analysis algorithm which allows note/beat markup and fluid audio stretching so that sample's pitch and speed can be manipulated independantly. Just take a bunch of rhythmic samples regardless of tempo, spray them on the keyboard with ASAP(automated sampling and placement) Beat Analyze them then pick a tempo. All the samples will now lock to whatever tempo you have set in EX2 Master or via your DAW's MIDI clock. This is a great way to JAM with samples to create new lines and grooves.

 

Xtractor AKA "karaoke function" is a new File Based DSP algorithm that allows you sort of a Audio Flashlight. It allows you to aim the flashlight L>R in the stereo field and has a pair of super steep brick wall filters to isolate any frequency. Once you have your light on the "spot" you can take that section and edit it's level and pitch. It is defininitely pan and mix dependant so don't expect the holy grail of perfectly unmixing a track. Even when it's having a tough time though it can generate some pretty cool sounds.

 

 

Best Regards,

ICHi

E-MU Systems

[ICHi]

If the multi-core support reduces the CPU load when running as a vsti, the price with be worth it to me. The extra sound sets will be the icing.

 

Can I assume that the 32bit version will still install on x64 and run as a vsti in 32 bit hosts, as it does currently?

***Yes.

 

Also, will I be able to install both the 32 and 64 bit versions on x64?

***Yes.

 

I may switch to 64 bit Sonar once the update is released, but I may not if too many plugin conflicts exist. Bit-bridge performance in 64 bit Sonar has been a little touch and go with some plugins.

 

Sounds like a great upgrade though!!! When???

***Approximately Late Spring 2007

 

Best,

ICHi

E-MU Systems

[Charm]

I don't think this was covered earlier (sorry if it was and I've missed it).

 

I use Emulator X (ie the original version).

 

Sometimes I want to use presets from different banks - stored in different folders - in the same Cubase sequence, but Emulator X holds just one bank. I could open multiple instances of the VST version of Emulator X with a bank in each, but for (a) memory-saving reasons and (b) clarity, I usually prefer to have a single instance containing a bank made up of just a selection of presets - so I have to construct a new bank made out of the existing presets. This bank has to be saved to disc - Cubase won't re-construct it. But, unless I'm doing something wrong, it seems that you can't avoid also re-saving all the samples (which are already on the disc) - they get saved in a new folder, with new names based on the name given to the new bank.

 

So:

 

. . (1) Am I wrong? - In Emulator X (original), can you actually save a bank in such a way that the samples don't get saved again? (And, if so, how?)

 

. . (2) If you can't do that in Emulator X, can you do it in the new version?

[ICHi]

I don't think this was covered earlier (sorry if it was and I've missed it).

 

I use Emulator X (ie the original version).

 

Sometimes I want to use presets from different banks - stored in different folders - in the same Cubase sequence, but Emulator X holds just one bank. I could open multiple instances of the VST version of Emulator X with a bank in each, but for (a) memory-saving reasons and (b) clarity, I usually prefer to have a single instance containing a bank made up of just a selection of presets - so I have to construct a new bank made out of the existing presets. This bank has to be saved to disc - Cubase won't re-construct it. But, unless I'm doing something wrong, it seems that you can't avoid also re-saving all the samples (which are already on the disc) - they get saved in a new folder, with new names based on the name given to the new bank.

 

So:

 

. . (1) Am I wrong? - In Emulator X (original), can you actually save a bank in such a way that the samples don't get saved again? (And, if so, how?)

***In all versions of EX, if you just hit Save after loading a bank that already exists only edited data will be re-saved. Sample data will not be duplicated. When you do any "save as..." operation, OR if you create a new bank by aquiring, merging samples, or presets you will create/recreate sample data.

 

The rationale behind this file system(and it's been around since the Emulator HW) is that it is simple, transparent, robust, portable and assumes that this is a SAMPLER and that sample data can be destructively manipulated at any time.

 

There are a 2 tools that we have implemented to help manage file size for save and archiving efficiency.

1) is Delete Unused Samples. To use this, just clean up your preset list to what your using or likely going to use. Rt. Click on the Sample Folder and choose Delete Unused Samples. This looks at your Preset list and deletes all samples from the pool that are not in use.

2) is Export MultiSetup. This is similar to Delete Unused Samples but instead of looking at your Preset List we look at your Multisetup, assuming that you only want what you have assigned to a MIDI channel. This will export a bank with only the preset/samples that are assigned in the Multisetup.

 

Note that we do have a class of sounds that we do treat "virtually" and those are our red colored ESC Libraries(Mo'Phatt, Planet Earth, TSCY Etc.) in which we treat samples as ROM like in our Sound Modules. For these libraries we deny edit access to the samples themselves and since they will never change, you don't need to save/resave any sample data. We keep track of where the ROMs are via the registry so that regardless of where you put the library (drive or path wise) when you say get new drives or update your PC and put them somewhere else all your banks will still work fine because we will find the ROMs via the registry.

 

 

Best,

ICHi

E-MU Systems

[Charm]

ICHi

 

Thanks for the info. I do see the logic behind making extra copies of the samples so as to prevent the newly-saved presets being undermined by a subsequent edit of the original samples.

 

However, as a grown-up, I make risky decisions every day, and I wish there was an option to over-ride this foolproof default behaviour and just save links to the original samples instead of being forced to store multiple copies of samples. I'd use that option whenever I was using EX with properly finished samples that I wouldn't edit, whether purchased samples or my own. If I was worried about the possibility of subsequent sample edits undermining the new presets, I could either use the default (current) saving behaviour or set the sample files as read-only.

 

And, don't forget, I could use back-ups (or original sample media, for purchased samples) to restore the unedited versions of samples, in the unlikely event of mistakes.

 

And on the subject of back-ups, I don't like having to make multiple back-ups of identical sampe data, which is a consequence of the philosophy of enforced re-saving of sample data - especially because of the altered file names - when new banks are created.

 

I daresay the current method offers advantages in the case of transferring banks to a new computer, but - in my own case - I'd rather bear the effort of going through a special exercise in the event of any such transfers, rather than accommodate multiple copies of identical samples, both on the hard drives and in back-up disks.

 

 

Clive

[ICHi]

Thanks for the info. I do see the logic behind making extra copies of the samples so as to prevent the newly-saved presets being undermined by a subsequent edit of the original samples.

 

However, as a grown-up, I make risky decisions every day, and I wish there was an option to over-ride this foolproof default behaviour and just save links to the original samples instead of being forced to store multiple copies of samples. I'd use that option whenever I was using EX with properly finished samples that I wouldn't edit, whether purchased samples or my own. If I was worried about the possibility of subsequent sample edits undermining the new presets, I could either use the default (current) saving behaviour or set the sample files as read-only.

***We have discussed the possibility of allowing users to "ROM"plify samples. Perhaps this could be implemented in the future as a lot of the system is already there, although this alone would not be enough, there will likely be the need for utilities to scrub/relink, fall back when samples are missing etc... so this is not a completely trivial feature to implement. No file system change ever is.

 

And, don't forget, I could use back-ups (or original sample media, for purchased samples) to restore the unedited versions of samples, in the unlikely event of mistakes.

 

And on the subject of back-ups, I don't like having to make multiple back-ups of identical sampe data, which is a consequence of the philosophy of enforced re-saving of sample data - especially because of the altered file names - when new banks are created.

 

I daresay the current method offers advantages in the case of transferring banks to a new computer, but - in my own case - I'd rather bear the effort of going through a special exercise in the event of any such transfers, rather than accommodate multiple copies of identical samples, both on the hard drives and in back-up disks.

***When we thought about this problem we thought that with drive prices plumetting, drive sizes and transfer speeds increasing, and collaboration becoming more and more prevalent due to the liquidity of data over networks that the EXB would be more appreciated. Thanks for your feedback.

 

Best,

ICHi

E-MU Systems

[zvon]

I bought EmulatorX2 yesterday and found this thread googling for info about it.

Great and useful thread! Many thanks to Craig (for starting it and all your hard work) and to everyone who contributed.

 

So far I am very impressed with the Emulator X2. It is indeed very deep, powerful and the sound quality is gorgeous (love the filters). On the other hand, as it have been noted too, I am one of those who find the interface complicated and confusing.

[zvon]

There's one thing that I really would like to know is how do I save an edited preset without overwriting the original one in the Emulator X2? Or is there a way to save an edited preset under a new name in a bank, thus adding it to the bank?

 

For instance, let's say that I have a bank with 3 presets, I edit preset 1. If I save the bank with the "save" or "save as" command, I will still have 3 presets but preset 1 will now be the newly edited version and the original version will have been overwritten. What I want to do is to save the edited version as "preset 1a" thus now having a bank with 4 presets containing both "preset 1" and "preset 1a".

 

I understand that if I can plan the edit, I would first make a copy of "preset 1" and rename the copy "preset 1a" and then edit the copy. But most of the time, I lack that foresight and just twist those knobs.