KORG M3 WORKSTATION/SAMPLER

[Anderton]

We already covered the sequencer Piano Roll view, touched on KARMA 2.2, and showed how you upload PCM Expansions. But, there are other aspects to the 2.0 upgrade and we need to circle back on them before we cover other things.

In addition to the Piano Roll for detailed editing, there's now a Track View for the sequencer as shown in the first image. Not only can you see MIDI data in the track, you can do operations that affect multiple measures, such as erase and move. Although you can use your fingers on the touch screen to do this, I found that a Nintendo DS-type stylus (or the kind used with Palm Centro or Treo phones) make it a lot easier to do complex or detailed operations.

We'll get some more into these features, but it's getting late...yawn...

[Jerrythek]

But what if you have programs that use the older sounds? They're not exactly compatible, but that's because programs using the new samples simply sound better. I didn't find any instances where I thought the previous sounds were better, but if you disagree, just don't load the new sounds.

 

This reads a bit confusing to me, so let me help clarify.

 

The ROM of the M3 was revised in Version 2, and the only "old sound" that was replaced was the original stereo piano. So any of those piano Programs have been revised to use a new sample set. That is the only instance where you'd be comparing any sounds (mostly from memory - your memory, not the unit's!).

 

Recently, we even brought back the original ROM piano as a 4th free expansion, which can be downloaded here:

 

http://www.korg.com/service/downloadinfo.asp?DID=1457

 

There are some internal programs and Combis which use the EX-PCM03 new piano, and they are clearly labelled with EX3 in their name. If it is not loaded the piano part will be silent/absent.

 

As for the Brass and Woodwind expansions, they are all located in User-Bank E with Programs that are newly voiced to show off the new samples, not versions of the ROM sounds with just the samples replaced...

 

And if their samples aren't loaded these User-E sounds will have silent or missing elements. This is clear in the Programs, but you may not be sure what is missing in the Combis, which often blend both Brass and Woodwinds together.

 

Any Brass and Woodwind Program located in INT-D bank use the original ROM samples, and are not affected by loading/unloading the expansions. So you are getting additional samples with the expansions, not replacing/affecting the ROM.

 

 

I hope this helps.

 

Jerry

 

Korg Guy

[Anderton]

Thanks Jerry, that does indeed help. Of course I couldn't compare a "2.0" M3 with a "pre-2.0" M3 so I was going from my memory, and apparently, what studies show about auditory memory is true...

 

But this also brings up an interesting point. I work with a lot of synths from a lot of companies, and when I get back to the M3 after a period of inactivity, I'm always struck - again - by the clarity of the sound. This time, due to the "doing-videos-after-AES madness," it was a long time before I got back to the M3 and yes, I was again struck by the clarity. I figured this was due to having installed 2.0, but apparently not...well, except for the new brass and piano patches, of course.

 

Thanks again for clarifying things and for continuing to monitor this thread.

[Anderton]

In fact, now that I think about it...Jerry, I know Korg calls their synthesis process "EDS." But without giving away any trade secrets or anything, could you shed some light on the technology responsible for the M3's particular sonic signature?

[Anderton]

There are some demo sequences in expanded version that show case some of the new sounds, so I figured it would make sense to post some of that here.

The first example is called "Mighty Edelweiss" and showcases the new piano, but there are plenty of other cool sounds that are worthy of note.

The second example, "Greetings from Eldar," really showcases the piano and also has some pretty bitchin' playing. Maybe Korg Guy can identify who was doing the playing...

[Anderton]

Here are two examples with samples drawn from the EX1 expansion (you'll hear why it's important to get the memory expansion so you can take advantage of all the new samples...).

"Horn Heroics" has a somewhat classical vibe, whereas "Brass - sFz" goes more into brass section land - think "Tower of Power," but in this case, a little more mellow.

[Anderton]

"Trumpetations" is also from the EX1 expansion sounds, and it's pretty daring - just some solo trumpets, so you can really hear what they sound like...impressive.

"Ablondigas" is another snippet based on the EX1 sounds that gives more of an ensemble feel, while "Flutessence" uses sounds from the EX1 and EX2 expansions...check the very impressive articulations. It also makes a nice segue into the next post, which has some EX2-based examples.

[Anderton]

"X-Y Inventions" is a sweet little Bach tribute...I kinda wish it had gone on longer

"Sax-5-ophones" is extremely impressive. Remember what used to pass for sax sounds with a synth or sampler? Well, we're definitely not in Kansas any more.

And of course, for all the clarinet fans in the crowd, there's "Clarinet Moods." Now, even if you're not a clarinet aficionado, this is another track that gives a really good idea of the kind of articulations available with the M3.

[Jerrythek]

There are some demo sequences in expanded version that show case some of the new sounds, so I figured it would make sense to post some of that here. The second example, "Greetings from Eldar," really showcases the piano and also has some pretty bitchin' playing. Maybe Korg Guy can identify who was doing the playing...

Hi Craig:

Errr... that would be a guy named.... Eldar!!

http://www.eldarjazz.com/



He's a pretty amazing musician, huh?

Regards,

Jerry

Korg Guy

[GrahaM3]

shows the setup after installing the EXB-M256. There are several differences: First, all of the PCM Expansions are loaded, and there's still 133MB of RAM left over. Second, they're all shown as "loaded." Third, the little boxes to the right of each PCM Expansion are checked (i.e., they have a red center). This means that, assuming the USB stick with the PCM Expansions is in one of the M3's USB, these will load automatically when the M3 boots up. But what if you have programs that use the older sounds? They're not exactly compatible, but that's because programs using the new samples simply sound better. I didn't find any instances where I thought the previous sounds were better, but if you disagree, just don't load the new sounds.

Firstly, thanks for the VERY informative thread. This, along with numerous YouTube videos and hours of research, has basically made my mind up on which workstation synth to buy! It was a toss-up between:

- Korg M3-61
- Roland Fantom G6
- Yamaha Motif XS6

I'm miles away from anywhere that can demo these to me, so I've had to be very careful in my research. I gotta' be honest, the looks of the M3 didn't really float my boat to start with, but the most important things are the sound and interface. The Fantom looks great, and has a glorious screen for sure, but everything I saw and heard just didn't have the "oomph" that the M3 has. I'm really more into synthy, swoopy, soundscape-type sounds, and the complexity and dynamics that KARMA add just blew me away.

So, decision made, just need to get the CC out!

In the meantime, I have a question on the three new sample banks that are available. Am I right in saying that these basically live on the USB stick, and are (if you want them) automatically loaded into memory on boot-up? I also take it then, from that point on, if you save a "project" that uses one of those new sounds, that bank always has to be loaded in the future for that project to work properly? Makes sense.

While I'm here, what formats are supported when outputting a sequenced track to USB?

Thanks again for this great resource - I'll let you guys know when I get this beast. Go easy though, I'm an "enthusiastic hobbyist" at best, and play for fun. This will be the first synth of its kind I've ever owned, and I can't wait!

[semmi78]

In the meantime, I have a question on the three new sample banks that are available. Am I right in saying that these basically live on the USB stick, and are (if you want them) automatically loaded into memory on boot-up? I also take it then, from that point on, if you save a "project" that uses one of those new sounds, that bank always has to be loaded in the future for that project to work properly? Makes sense. While I'm here, what formats are supported when outputting a sequenced track to USB?

hi GrahaM3

Congrats on your choice. The looks of the M3 is debated so much. I agree its not as stunning as the Fantom or even the older Trinity but you made a right choice to look inside the box.

Yes, the 3 new sample banks are loaded from USB memory. You can manually switch on/off what you want to load at the startup. Please keep in mind that without the extra 256 mb addon, you can only load one sample bank. Enough for the piano bank, but to make full use of the Orchestral expansion you really need the extra 256. I just ordered one myself.

If you record a song with tracks that makes use of the EXB banks, it is indeed necessary to load them everytime. Otherwise you won't hear any sound for that particular track/section.

Well, I don't understand your question about the format of a sequenced track? I guess this would just be MIDI.

Semmi78

[GrahaM3]

Well, I don't understand your question about the format of a sequenced track? I guess this would just be MIDI. Semmi78

 

Hi Semmi78

 

Thanks, really looking forward to getting this! I've decided to hold off until after Christmas now as things have just got really busy at work and home, but I'll keep reading these forums for sure!

 

With regards the the file format, I meant that once you have got your track sequenced and finalised, surely there must be an option to "output" that track to a standard audio file? For example, telling it to create an MP3 of your sequenced track onto an attached USB drive.

[Tony Scharf]

Hi Semmi78 Thanks, really looking forward to getting this! I've decided to hold off until after Christmas now as things have just got really busy at work and home, but I'll keep reading these forums for sure! With regards the the file format, I meant that once you have got your track sequenced and finalised, surely there must be an option to "output" that track to a standard audio file? For example, telling it to create an MP3 of your sequenced track onto an attached USB drive.

 

 

I believe you can do this by resampling the output and streaming it to disk as a .wav. This would output at 48khz, of course, and then you could convert to MP3 using your computer.

 

At least, thats how I think you would accomplish this.

 

Tony

[Ork]

HI!
I would like to thank everyone who took part in creating this great review! It helped me a lot to make a final decision to buy an M3, not a PA2XPro.
However there is still one thing I didn`t find out. In arranger workstations there`s a function called harmony, which does some work for you: when you simultaneously play chords with your left hand and single notes with your right hand, those single notes are transformed in chords.
Would anyone please explain me if there is any function like this in non-arranger workstations, particularly in M3?
Thanks in advance and sorry for any grammatical or spelling errors, because I`m not from an English-speaking country.

[GrahaM3]

HI! I would like to thank everyone who took part in creating this great review! It helped me a lot to make a final decision to buy an M3, not a PA2XPro. However there is still one thing I didn`t find out. In arranger workstations there`s a function called harmony, which does some work for you: when you simultaneously play chords with your left hand and single notes with your right hand, those single notes are transformed in chords. Would anyone please explain me if there is any function like this in non-arranger workstations, particularly in M3? Thanks in advance and sorry for any grammatical or spelling errors, because I`m not from an English-speaking country.

Hi,

Are you talking about "auto accompaniment"? If so, that terminology is reserved for "Arranger keyboards", things like the Korg PA2X Pro and the Yamaha Tyros range. These have pre-configured backing "styles" that you can play along to, and are often favoured by live performers, or those who want to create music quickly but do not want to spend the time creating entire songs from scratch.

The Korg M3 is a synth workstation, and does not have these auto accopanying styles. However, it does have "combis" and the famous Karma engine which essentially give you a level of accompaniment that is very different, but at the same time, very powerful.

Read up on Karma here:http://www.karma-lab.com/main.html

A couple of great examples of what a combi can do for you are on these two YouTube videos of the new Korg M50:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TryfvWydCUM
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg8xlAvLvCo

Essentially, you can achieve a whole lot with a whole, well, little!

By the way, thanks Tony for your response. I was kinda' hoping that you would just be able to "push a button" so-to-speak, and then have it just create the file for you onto a USB dive. The format is irrelevant really as you say, because it can always be converted later.

[Ork]

Hi, GrahaM3!
First of all, thanks for answering.
It helped me to understand that... I have very bad english, and I can`t explain the things the way I want to. However, let me try again.
I DO know what Auto-Accompaniment and KARMA are, and, to be honest, I`m not interested in either. What seems more interesting to me, is a very simple, yet very nice feature that is called ENSEMBLE.
Here is the main difference between ENSEMBLE and Auto-Accompaniment:
-with Auto-Accompaniment on, you can press any key IN CHORD SCANNING AREA, and it will play like a chord; if you press any key NOT IN CHORD SCANNING AREA, it will sound just like a single note;
-with ENSEMBLE on, you can press any key NOT IN CHORD SCANNING AREA, and it will play like a chord; however, for this to work, you have to play (at the same time) any chord with your left hand, letting the keyboard know what kind of chords you want for your right-hand party; BUT!!!
In the final mix you can remove the chords played with left hand and just leave the chords played with right hand. In other words, ENSEMBLE is a simple way to play chords.
Of course, you could play the chords manually with your right hand, but it`s not easy to create smooth transisions between chords if you are playing a fast tune.
Hope I could explain what I was looking for. If someone has any info about whether such a feature is implemented in non-arranger keyboards or not, please let me know!
Sorry again for any grammatical or spelling errors!

[GrahaM3]

Hi Ork,

Let me see if I've understood you correctly. Do you:

1. Hold down, let's say, 4 keys with the left head to play a chord

2. With the right hand, hit one key, but instead of playing a single note, it plays the chord that you are holding with the left hand

???

I do know that you can assign chords that have up to 8 notes to the velocity sensitive pads, but I know that isn't exactly what you are talking about. If you are not interested in KARMA at all, are you sure the M3 is the most suitable board for you? I guess you've done your research so who am I to question eh?!

Sorry if I didn't understand your question - this is all pretty new to me, and I haven't even ordered the M3 yet...and I mean, yet!

[Tony Scharf]

not to be cheeky, but how about you learn to play chords with both hands ?

 

seriously though, Karma is so deep, I wouldnt be surprised if it could do what you want in some configuration or another. I am not the Karma expert though.

[Ork]

To GrahaM3: yes, you have understood me correctly. Even if it`s difficult for you to imagine the results of playing with the ENSEMBLE function turned on, I must say that the result is great, you just have to try it yourself! (Even a very simple arranger keyboard - like Yamaha PSR-450 - will do for it).
To Tony Scharf: you are right, it seems that if I buy an M3, I`ll have to learn to play chords with both hands.

[GrahaM3]

Well guys, after sleeping on it some more, and watching a ton more YouTube videos as well as reading reviews and forums, I've decided to not go for the Korg M3-61.

Nope, instead, I've gone for its slightly bigger sibling, the M3XP-73

I noticed on a lot of videos with 61 keys, people were at the limits of the board regularly, and octave shifting quite a lot compared to people with 73 keys. Of course that's kinda' obvious and to be expected, but I figured that there are going to be enough times where I'd long for that extra octave, especially when splitting into zones, so threw caution to the wind and went for the higher model. I know I don't want or need the 88 key version because we have a Yamaha CLP-340 for my wife and daughter. The keys are too heavy for my liking, and I rarely (if ever) need the entire octave range in any one performance (if you can call my amateur racket a performance!) Apart from that, the 73 key version also allows you to install a full RADIAS-R rack module alongside it, which I plan on doing in the future now. Weight is not an issue, as this thing is going to be sat on an stand near my desk, never to move again unless it's to install something!

I placed the order today, along with an EXB-RADIAS board, 256MB RAM expansion, and a pair of active speaker monitors. Being the newly XPanded model out of the factory, I'm not sure when it will arrive, but I opted for that over manually updating an older M3 that was in stock. This is because I called Korg technical to discuss the XPanded version, and it actually has a revised memory architecture and includes an internal SD card with the additional three soundbanks already installed, so no need to constantly have a USB stick plugged in to load the sounds from. Minor, you could say, but major enogh for me to wait...but I hate waiting!

Oh well, nearly Christmas

[semmi78]

@GrahaM3
wow, didn't know the XPanded models included the EXB banks in the SD memory?

The pre-xpanded models do also have an SD card if I am correct. I remember seeing one when opening the case to install the Radias.

[GrahaM3]

@GrahaM3 wow, didn't know the XPanded models included the EXB banks in the SD memory? The pre-xpanded models do also have an SD card if I am correct. I remember seeing one when opening the case to install the Radias.

There could well be an SD card on board previous models, but I'm not sure what it is used for. Can you copy to it?

I guess for the sake of a weeks extra wait it is worth it to not have the USB stick in for the sounds. I know you need some form of storage for saving to, but I'd much rather have all of the sounds internal if possible (at least until the XPanded+ model )

The store called and said that the one they have is not XPanded, so they have requested one direct from Korg. Should be with them by the middle of next week.

[Jerrythek]

Being the newly XPanded model out of the factory, I'm not sure when it will arrive, but I opted for that over manually updating an older M3 that was in stock. This is because I called Korg technical to discuss the XPanded version, and it actually has a revised memory architecture and includes an internal SD card with the additional three soundbanks already installed, so no need to constantly have a USB stick plugged in to load the sounds from.

 

 

This will not be the case in all markets, in the US no models are like this and won't be for many, many months to come.

 

Regards,

 

Jerry

Korg Guy

[Tony Scharf]

Ive been following this review for a while and like everyone here, I really love my M3.

 

There is one thing I can't figure out, and while this may not be the appropriate place to ask this question, I cant find another dedicated forum for the M3 to ask...SO...

 

Is there a way to set the trigger pads to 'latch'? What I mean is that you press it once and it sends a note on, but does NOT send a note off until you hit the same pad a second time? I had this on my old Roland Fantom X6 and my MPC, but I sold those to get the M3. Its not a 100% neccessary thing, but it would make certain performance issues easier as I gear up for some live gigs coming up.

 

Thanks

[semmi78]

Hi Tony

I don't know the answer to your question, but did you try www.karma-labs.com/forum ?

They are pretty dedicated to the M3/Oasys.