Casio XW-P1 Performance Synthesizer

[Mike Martin]

 

Originally Posted by happyrat1

From what I've seen in my own MIDI experiments with the XW-P1 it seems that playing back a MIDI sequence from the computer sets the Keyboard Local Ctrl Parameter to OFF until you manually reset it again. I haven't extensively played with MIDI yet as I am still waiting on the Cakewalk INS file that Mike said he was working on.

Even so, if this is in fact the case that playing MIDI data thru the USB cable turns off local control I would also find this to be an annoyance. There may be a workaround however, if one has to assign particular channels to particular tracks. I'll leave it to the Gurus out there to enlighten us as to this conundrum.

 

No this is not true. This is a (default) preference setting in Cakewalk that is turning local control off. That being said, most of the time when working with a computer application you want the computer to "echo" what you're playing on the keyboard back to the MIDI channel that you've specified in Cakewalk.

Regarding the Cakewalk INS file, using the WK-7500 file as a template I should be able to complete that this weekend.

[happyrat1]

 

Originally Posted by Mike Martin

No this is not true. This is a (default) preference setting in Cakewalk that is turning local control off. That being said, most of the time when working with a computer application you want the computer to "echo" what you're playing on the keyboard back to the MIDI channel that you've specified in Cakewalk.

Regarding the Cakewalk INS file, using the WK-7500 file as a template I should be able to complete that this weekend.

 

The WK-7500 File is by no means an "official" INS file. It was user created and I stumbled across it on the net during my travels.

For your convenience I'll attach it to this message so you don't have to search heaven and earth as I did to come up with it

[ATTACH]346922[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]346923[/ATTACH]

[happyrat1]

 

Originally Posted by gneissnfunky

Okay, let me see if I have this...eventually there will be a INS file which will basically allow you to use the sounds/tones off the XW-P1 in Cakewalk...once this is done you can select any tone for each part in a MIDI song? Are there equivalents to INS files for other DAWs? However if there is no "Part #" (should be any number between 1-16) for the accompaniment tone then how would you select it?

 

OK, let me try and explain it in a nutshell. Cakewalk, Sonar, Cubase, Abelton, Garageband, all of these programs work as external sequencers. What the Cakewalk INS file does is lay out in a txt file the patch list and accompanying MIDI commands for all of the Instruments/Program Names/Patches (Whatever terminology your synth uses) as well as all of the drum kits and all of the available controller parameters in a list which acts as a configuration for using that synth with a particular sequencer. While Cakewalk and Sonar use the INS format, I'm sure there are other equivalent filetypes for the other sequencers out there as well as possibly conversion utilities to convert the filetypes from one format to another. For instance I know for a fact there is a python script out there that converts Cakewalk INS files to Rosegarden RGD files.

Anyway, once a sequencer has the proper instrument definitions loaded in, it is possible to control the patches in use on the synth from the computer's screen in a MIDI sequence and yes you can define each instrument as long as each one was sequenced on a different track and/or MIDI channel.

Now when you create a MIDI sequence in Cakewalk for example, you can specify which patches to use on the fly, so to speak, if you have the software set to record program changes along with the MIDI data, but in practice this stuff becomes clumsy to edit afterwards and a royal PITA to deal with in the MIDI event list view of a song.

An INS file (Instrument Definition File) allows you to easily record a MIDI track with any given patch # and then play around with swapping it in and out for other patches which you may or may not find acoustically more pleasing. This can apply to drum kits as well as individual instruments.

Anyway, that's why I've been making such a pest of myself going after Mike to create or commission such a file for the XW-P1. I'm not very strong as a player, but I do some great things with counterpoint in my MIDI compositions and MP3 recordings and I'm itching to be able to fully exploit the sound set of the XW in Cakewalk.

BTW Mike, I'm not sure about what you said about Cakewalk's defaults turning off local control. I've been using those settings for over a decade with all sorts of synths as years gone by without them affecting Local Control in that fashion. It still seems to me the working solution was to set the XW's sync mode to Master and that seemed to solve the disappearing keyboard problem.

[Anderton]

That's a great explanation of what an INS file is

You'll be happy to know the Mike has sent me an INS file for the XW-P1, but doesn't have the means to test it fully with Sonar and asked if I would do so. I can't do it this afternoon, but will later if at all possible.

I think he is rightfully cautious about not posting it here and saying "Hey, here it is!" without someone testing it, but perhaps he wouldn't mind my posting it for others to test comprehensively - as long as it's understood it's a "rough draft." It might work perfectly, or it might not.

Thanks Mike!

[happyrat1]

 

Originally Posted by Anderton

That's a great explanation of what an INS file is

You'll be happy to know the Mike has sent me an INS file for the XW-P1, but doesn't have the means to test it fully with Sonar and asked if I would do so. I can't do it this afternoon, but will later if at all possible.

I think he is rightfully cautious about not posting it here and saying "Hey, here it is!" without someone testing it, but perhaps he wouldn't mind my posting it for others to test comprehensively - as long as it's understood it's a "rough draft." It might work perfectly, or it might not.

Thanks Mike!

 

Well I suppose the least you should do is see if it works with basic functionality on your setup before posting it here for Beta testing and debugging. If it does work for you tonight or this weekend, then yeah, I'd be willing to look at the Beta on my setup and see if it works or not.

BTW it might also be worthwhile to mention in addition to my previous explanation that when a music file is sequenced with an INS configuration, that information is only saved for use and playback in the proprietary file format supported by the sequencer software itself. The *.MID format has no built in provisions to use extended MIDI voice data other than (and I could be wrong here) SysEX commands. Personally I've never really studied or understood the SysEX arguments and so am not qualified to comment.

Anyway, generally speaking, a *.MID sequence will only allow the use of 128 GM voices but there's nothing stopping you from importing a *.MID into your sequencer's format and retooling the patch set to your heart's content.

[Anderton]

Well, I'm not an INS expert, but I followed the Cakewalk tutorial and it all seemed to work fine in X1 - calling up the patches on Sonar called up the equivalent patches on the XW-P1. I check this for the GM patches, as well as various banks. I was surprised to see some blanks in the banks, but they turned out to be GM patches that were accounted for elsewhere.

I also tried naming some of the patches within Sonar to correspond to patches I had created, and that worked too.

So, with the caveats that Mike has NOT given this .ins file his unconditional thumbs up, and it's not something I use much so if there's some weird problem I probably wouldn't catch it, I'm posting this and you can beat on it further. But it really does seem to work.

Thank you very much Mike. It definitely does make it easier to deal with having a variety of patches available.

So happyrat - let us know if this makes you a happier rat

[Edit - The attached patch had a typo that didn't allow selecting drums. As a result the file originally attached to this post has been deleted, corrected, and re-attached to post #382.]

[happyrat1]

 

Originally Posted by Anderton

Well, I'm not an INS expert, but I followed the Cakewalk tutorial and it all seemed to work fine in X1 - calling up the patches on Sonar called up the equivalent patches on the XW-P1. I check this for the GM patches, as well as various banks. I was surprised to see some blanks in the banks, but they turned out to be GM patches that were accounted for elsewhere.

I also tried naming some of the patches within Sonar to correspond to patches I had created, and that worked too.

So, with the caveats that Mike has NOT given this .ins file his unconditional thumbs up, and it's not something I use much so if there's some weird problem I probably wouldn't catch it, I'm posting this and you can beat on it further. But it really does seem to work.

Thank you very much Mike. It definitely does make it easier to deal with having a variety of patches available.

So happyrat - let us know if this makes you a happier rat

 

Mike and Craig. I'd like to commend you both on a job well done.

However... Miles to go before we sleep

I just finished testing out the INS file. The patch section seems to be complete and working pretty much as it should, though there are a few surprising sounds coming out of some of the patchnames. Then again, I have yet to experiment with every voice on this beast even after owning it for a couple of months now.

Anyway, here's the "but."

The Drum Kits and the Controller Info sections missing from the INS file.

The patch sections seem pretty thorough and complete, but even though it works, you can't consider this Definition File complete until the controller parameters and the drumkit parameters are included.

Still, it is somewhat usable right now in its current state and for that much I do thank you both very much and hope you will stay the course til the file is complete.

The happy rat is now a slightly less grumpy rat

Then again, "It doesn't matter which way you go when the goal is recognized.

Let's have another drink of Au Cointreau and we'll talk about your eyes."

(I'll buy a 6 pack of Coronas for the first one who can identify that song lyric. )

Remember, life is all about the journey, not the final destination...

Peace,

Gary

[Anderton]

I opened up the INS file in a text editor, and the drums are in there - but I noticed there was an equal sign missing under the instrument Definitions section. I added that, and now you have drums accessible too! I'm so proud of myself

I've attached the updated definition. As to the controller parameters...I don't see anything relating to controllers in the INS file, and the tutorial in the help menu didn't say anything about controllers. I'll look around and see if I can find out what you're talking about.

[Edit: the attached file was removed. The newer version in post #387 also includes controller definitions as well as patches.]

[Anderton]

I found an INS file for a Roland synth that showed controllers...I tried adding them to the Casio INS file in a similar manner, and now they're showing up. It's too late to do all the entries, but I got at least partway through

The Casio MIDI documentation lists the controllers as hex, but the INS apparently needs decimal, so I've having to convert them before entering. But, I'm taking the file I have so far and have imported it, so I'm going to try driving the XW-P1 to see what happens.

I think I found the topic for my Sound On Sound Sonar column for this month

[happyrat1]

Well done Craig! The Drums work perfectly after that missing equal sign was added. Your eyes are much sharper than mine I have to admit.

As for the controllers section, I think that's stuff you or Mike will have to dig out of the MIDI Spec Book for the XW-P1.

Without that info, all the groovy stuff like the knob twiddling and slider sliding and possibly even velocity and aftertouch and other button pushing will be lost when recording a sequence. But as for it showing up in Sonar? You'd just have to experiment with a live recording to see if the info is recording or not.

Actually you just posted while I was editing this so I see you are already well on your way to completing the controller section.

Also I'm happy to hear that you've found the subject for another column of yours this month

Also, at this point I have a question for Mike specifically.

Is the sound engine in this keyboard able to handle Solo Synth, Organ, and Hex Presets all at once when they are played as a MIDI file and treating the keyboard as a module? Or does it crap out when trying to generate all those sounds at once? My current tests seem inconclusive, but I'd like to hear what the engineers say about it?

[Anderton]

The controllers are working!

[happyrat1]

Are they working with or without the controllers section in the file? I haven't tested that feature out yet, but I assumed if the controller section was missing it wouldn't work properly.

[Anderton]

Okay...here's a version that also implements all controllers between 0 and 127 that are included in the XW-P1. Of course, Sonar already has dedicated MIDI envelopes for pitch wheel and aftertouch, so I didn't need to cover those. As to RPNs and NRPNs...you're on your own! I'm surprised I got this far

Note that some controllers serve double-duty, depending on which engine is selected - for example, CC74 controls filter resonance but if a Drawbar Organ sound is selected, it controls the level of drawbar 2-2/3.

For reference, here are the controller assignments included in the .INS file.

[Casio XW-P1 Controllers]

0=0 Bank Select MSB

1=1 Modulation

5=5 Portamento Time

6=6 Data Entry MSB

7=7 Volume

10=10 Pan

11=11 Expression

16=16 General Use 1

17=17 General Use 2

18=18 General Use 3

19=19 General Use 4

32=32 Bank Select LSB

38=38 Data Entry LSB

64=64 Hold 1

65=65 Portamento (Solo Synth)

66=66 Sostenuto

67=67 Soft

70=70 Drawbar Position 16

71=71 Filter Res, Drawbar 5-1/3

72=72 Release Time, Drawbar 8

73=73 Attack Time, Drawbar 4

74=74 Filter Cutoff, Drawbar 2-2/3

75=75 Drawbar 2

76=76 Vibrato Rate, Drawbar 1-3/5

77=77 Vibrato Depth, Drawbar 1-1/3

78=78 Vibrato Delay, Drawbar 1

79=79 Drawbar Organ Type

80=80 General Use 5

81=81 General Use 6

82=82 General Use 7

83=83 General Use 8

84=84 Drawbar 2nd Perc

85=85 Drawbar 3rd Perc

86=86 Drawbar Perc Decay

87=87 Drawbar Click On

88=88 Drawbar Click Off

89=89 Vibrato Rate Drawbar

90=90 Vibrato Depth Drawbar

91=91 Reverb Send

93=93 Chorus Send

98=98 NRPN LSB

99=99 NRPN MSB

100=100 RPN LSB

101=101 RPN MSB

120=120 All Sound OFF

121=121 Reset All Controllers

123=123 All Notes OFF

124=124 Omni Off

125=125 Omni On

126=126 Mono On

127=127 Poly On

[Anderton]

Doncha love Pro Reviews?

[happyrat1]

 

Originally Posted by Anderton

Doncha love Pro Reviews?

 

Awesome Craig!!! Big Thanks, no HUUUUGE THANKS going out to both you and Mike! You've done a great service for XW-P1 owners both present and future and I really wish I could send you a well deserved case of Coronas across the border but Customs gets kinda sticky about that sort of thing. (Go figger ) At any rate, next time you're in the Greater Toronto Area look me up and I promise to buy you guys a few beers.

Anyway, I'm off to bed and I think you've earned a decent night's rest as well...

Best Regards,

Gary

[gneissnfunky]

So I loaded a .mid song into Anvil, changed the GM MIDI instruments to tones I like, and played it on the XW-P1 player, viola, it worked...thank you happyrat...now for the strangeness. I have 771 .mid files on the SD card, I futzed with the first one so I didn't have to scroll alot (which is painfully slow) - "18 and Life". Well, when I entered PLAYER MODE Part 1 was on SOLO SYNTH which is the tone I had it set to previous to entering PLAYER MODE, but I could not mess with the tone nor change the tone using the sliders or wheel. When I forwarded the song, then came back to it, I no longer was in SOLO SYNTH mode as it was changed to a GM patch (distortion guitar I think)...I think this happened because Part I of the next song was a GM, and once the player plays a GM in Part I, then it's stuck in GM, I tested this theory by forwarding through songs with no Part I parts and it stayed in SOLO SYNTH until I got to a song with a GM in Part I...Additionally if that wasn't strange enough, all the songs on the SD card were changed, their parts mimicked what I did with with "18 and Life" (though 1999 in flute did sound cool)...So that's where I'm at, any answers would be greatly appreciated...I still can't understand why I can't use the the mixer to edit the parts in PLAYER MODE, as that would seem like the simplest fix...I'm assuming what I'm doing is not the intended purpose of the Smf player, if that were so I thought there'd be much more functionality, so, what is the intended use in that case?

[happyrat1]

I think part of the problem here is that when the XW-P1 plays a multipart MIDI it's a limitation of the synthesis engine.

Mike mentioned something previously about the Solo Synth and Drawbar Organs and Hex Mode PCMs being mutually exclusive in playback mode. I think that's the wall we are hitting here. When you try and ask the synth to play with too many engines at once, it simply falls back to failsafe and plays the closest PCM mode.

At least that's my theory. I'm still waiting to hear back from Mike on that one.

Incidentally, as I mentioned earlier, the MIDI spec for *.MID files offers no support for extended voice support beyond the standard 128 GM voices. You might have missed that, in all the INS stuff, but basically you are asking the XW-P1's built in sequencer to do things that it was never intended to do.

I think it's limited in that it's able to load and play a MID file but unable to handle a conversion to a Casio friendly format internally.

[jdc513]

Well I got my replacement P1 and have been playing around following some of the guides from these posts and the links and manual, see Craig....I listened..but keep in mind i'm new to synths.

Anyway, I'm confused on performance use. I want to be able to switch between a basic piano sound in the beginning of a song to a split type set up, synth/base bottom and synth/strings top, and back without fumbling around. Which tool do I use? Performance mode, step sequencer?? No tempo and backing track, just playing live and need to switch around sounds on the fly. Hex layer? ..sorry...I'll just wait for the answer.

sorry if this is redundant or too basic for this review. If you can direct me where to look for answers am happy to read and research on my own.

[happyrat1]

I'm not big on performing live, but I think I can field this one.

If you're looking to setup up splits and layers and voices and whatnot for a live gig, my approach would be to copy the patches and splits and layers and beats and whatnot to consecutive user slots in performance mode and then just step back and forth thru them in a live gig with the + and - buttons.

That sounds about right to me in theory. How about you?

[jdc513]

Sounds right in theory..I'll work it that way for now. Only concern would be if I had 3 or 4 different setups for a song and I had to go from the 4th to the 1st would cause some delay I would think...we'll see.

Thanks for the guidance..much appreciated.

[jdc513]

Was also wondering if utilizing the mixer and slide bars could accomplish...bringing up a specific sound at specific times...

[happyrat1]

If you had to jump around 4 or 5 setups you could :

A) Punch the numbers in directly from the keypad

or

B) Set up one of them thar fancy schmancy MIDI control pedals to feed Macro commands and program changes directly to the keyboard.

Lord knows there's a million of em out there to choose from

http://g-force.info/midiboard_comparison.htm

[happyrat1]

 

Originally Posted by Anderton

Okay...here's a version that also implements all controllers between 0 and 127 that are included in the XW-P1. Of course, Sonar already has dedicated MIDI envelopes for pitch wheel and aftertouch, so I didn't need to cover those. As to RPNs and NRPNs...you're on your own! I'm surprised I got this far

Note that some controllers serve double-duty, depending on which engine is selected - for example, CC74 controls filter resonance but if a Drawbar Organ sound is selected, it controls the level of drawbar 2-2/3.

For reference, here are the controller assignments included in the .INS file.

[Casio XW-P1 Controllers]

0=0 Bank Select MSB

1=1 Modulation

5=5 Portamento Time

6=6 Data Entry MSB

7=7 Volume

10=10 Pan

11=11 Expression

16=16 General Use 1

17=17 General Use 2

18=18 General Use 3

19=19 General Use 4

32=32 Bank Select LSB

38=38 Data Entry LSB

64=64 Hold 1

65=65 Portamento (Solo Synth)

66=66 Sostenuto

67=67 Soft

70=70 Drawbar Position 16

71=71 Filter Res, Drawbar 5-1/3

72=72 Release Time, Drawbar 8

73=73 Attack Time, Drawbar 4

74=74 Filter Cutoff, Drawbar 2-2/3

75=75 Drawbar 2

76=76 Vibrato Rate, Drawbar 1-3/5

77=77 Vibrato Depth, Drawbar 1-1/3

78=78 Vibrato Delay, Drawbar 1

79=79 Drawbar Organ Type

80=80 General Use 5

81=81 General Use 6

82=82 General Use 7

83=83 General Use 8

84=84 Drawbar 2nd Perc

85=85 Drawbar 3rd Perc

86=86 Drawbar Perc Decay

87=87 Drawbar Click On

88=88 Drawbar Click Off

89=89 Vibrato Rate Drawbar

90=90 Vibrato Depth Drawbar

91=91 Reverb Send

93=93 Chorus Send

98=98 NRPN LSB

99=99 NRPN MSB

100=100 RPN LSB

101=101 RPN MSB

120=120 All Sound OFF

121=121 Reset All Controllers

123=123 All Notes OFF

124=124 Omni Off

125=125 Omni On

126=126 Mono On

127=127 Poly On

 

BTW, I just wanted to make the suggestion, even though it may be obvious, that Mike should submit the final file for inclusion on Casio's XW-P1 Support Downloads Page. It seems pretty thoroughly debugged and complete now and I'm not really expecting any more major revisions.

And once again, BIG THANKS to Mike and Craig for a job well done!!!

Gary

[Anderton]

 

Originally Posted by happyrat1

If you had to jump around 4 or 5 setups you could :

A) Punch the numbers in directly from the keypad

 

Let me elaborate on that. The XW-P1 arranges its patches in banks, and there are 10 presets within a bank. You can select any preset within that bank by simply hitting one button - for example if you were in User Bank 0, preset 4, the display would show U:0-4. If you wanted to jump to preset 1, you'd just press the 1 button, and you'd be there - the display would show U:0-1. If you wanted to jump to preset 9, just press 9 and now the display will show U:0-9.

So the bottom line (which is true for Performances or Tones):

• Getting to any preset within a given bank is one button press.
• Getting to any preset within a different bank is three button presses - Num/Bank button, number that represents the bank, number that represents the preset.
• If you're switching from a User bank to a Preset bank or vice-versa, that adds one more button press.

jdc513, I'm glad you got a working XW-P1 . Bear in mind that it may only be a $500 synthesizer, but it's pretty deep and there is a learning curve if you want to exploit it to the fullest - after all, the XW-P1 is a musical instrument

The cool part, though, is that even after working with this synth pretty extensively since this review started, I'm still finding cool things to do with it, and there are still areas I haven't fully explored. I also really like that it takes a unique approach to synthesis. I have a Yamaha Motif XS6 and Korg M3 - fantastic synthesizers I'd never trade - yet the XW-P1 complements them and provides an entirely different "skill set."

The manual is helpful, but I highly recommend downloading the editor and using that to understand the synth's architecture. It got me up to speed fast on what was going on "under the hood," and you can do on-screen tweaks and hear the results immediately, without having to poke through menus.

[Anderton]

 

Originally Posted by happyrat1

BTW, I just wanted to make the suggestion, even though it may be obvious, that Mike should submit the final file for inclusion on Casio's XW-P1 Support Downloads Page. It seems pretty thoroughly debugged and complete now and I'm not really expecting any more major revisions.

And once again, BIG THANKS to Mike and Craig for a job well done!!!

Gary

 

Glad to help, even though Mike did most of the work , and I learned a lot in the process. Also I'm not kidding, Instrument Definition files will indeed be the subject of my next Sonar techniques column for Sound On Sound so thanks for that!