Members Hidden Posted April 18, 2004 Members Share Posted April 18, 2004 I know this has been mentioned elsewhere, but couldn't find the thread, so.. Am going to spend some of the tax money on a new bed, and I just got new monitors and soundcard, have 2 synths, but no hardware mixer. This baby from Behringer looks SO tempting! And it got motorized faders! http://www.procom.no/cgi-bin/frames.cgi?http%3A//www.procom.no/infoShop/isProductDisplayer.php%3Fdetails%3D23605 Picture for the lazy: Then you got this without faders, but with more rotary knobs: http://www.procom.no/cgi-bin/frames.cgi?http%3A//www.procom.no/infoShop/isProductDisplayer.php%3Fdetails%3D23606 I will buy one of these, not sure which one yet! :-/ They look pretty good on paper, what would you say? Try and forget what you think about Behringer products for a second, these look very solid. Picture: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members explody pup Posted April 18, 2004 Members Share Posted April 18, 2004 They do look pretty good. But, as with any newly launched product, I'd sit for a while and let other people test it out to see if it's really worth it before I laid down my hard earned cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members keanu reeves Posted April 18, 2004 Members Share Posted April 18, 2004 i would actually probably buy the PAIR if i didnt plan on buying a nord mod g2 sometime soon down the line. nord mod g2x will be THE ultimate softsynth controller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hidden Posted April 18, 2004 Author Members Share Posted April 18, 2004 I will probably buy Sonar 3 Producer first (damn you CW for not including Kontakt, but the Lexicon is fab), but I really want the both of those too. It would be a good thing to wait a little bit yes, and see what people say about it when it's out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MBro2 Posted April 22, 2004 Members Share Posted April 22, 2004 At $170 (knobs) and $220 (faders) with free 2-day shipping (e.g. SameDayMusic.com), that's hard to beat! My friends will be so impressed seeing those faders move on their own. ---Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeez Posted April 22, 2004 Members Share Posted April 22, 2004 Originally posted by MBro2 My friends will be so impressed seeing those faders move on their own. The controllers don't have text displays to show what parameter is controlled by each knob/slider. That means that even though the sliders move by themselves (and the knob lights adjust to the correct position), you still have to guess which knob/slider controls which parameter! Forever, Kim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MBro2 Posted April 22, 2004 Members Share Posted April 22, 2004 I "play" the knobs pretty much like a keyboard, and none of the keys on my keyboard are labelled. 8) Actually, on my Yamaha P60, even the parameters keys aren't labelled; there's a chart you can refer to or memorize. I would guess that like most cheap controllers (like my Edirol), there's room for paper labels, or a template. I'm all for bells and whistles, but less enthusiastic about paying for them. (As an amateur, I can't even write them off as business expenses.) ---Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mytee2.0 Posted April 22, 2004 Members Share Posted April 22, 2004 Originally posted by Jeez That means that even though the sliders move by themselves (and the knob lights adjust to the correct position), you still have to guess which knob/slider controls which parameter! ...or you could just write it all down on paper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Is. Posted April 23, 2004 Members Share Posted April 23, 2004 Originally posted by myteeGTi ...or you could just write it all down on paper The real question is...will these new controllers allow one to type the parameters in a word processor and print it out? Writing stuff down is so archaic, I want my knob/fader box to be future-proof! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mytee2.0 Posted April 23, 2004 Members Share Posted April 23, 2004 then get a printer!great googly moogly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fear My Potato Posted April 23, 2004 Members Share Posted April 23, 2004 Let's spend thousands of dollars or more on top of the line keyboards with great sounds and good speakers or amps only to run it through a $200 Behringer mixer I suppose we'll all be drooling over the idea of watching High Definition TV on a 13" black and white set from 1982 next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mytee2.0 Posted April 23, 2004 Members Share Posted April 23, 2004 Originally posted by Fear My Potato Let's spend thousands of dollars or more on top of the line keyboards with great sounds and good speakers or amps only to run it through a $200 Behringer mixer I seriously doubt the people that spend thousands of dollars on top the line keyboards with great sounds use cheap behringer mixers. People that use em are like me. Dont have thousands of dollars or more to spend on top of the line keyboards with great sounds, but have avg to good synths along with a low budget behringer mixer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fear My Potato Posted April 23, 2004 Members Share Posted April 23, 2004 Well I was assuming that each of your keyboards cost at least $800 and that you have an amp worth around that. If with a setup like that you haven't spent at least two thousand dollars, you don't need a mixer with eight channels. Even if you have say an older Alesis QS board it's going to suffer going through a Behringer mixer. I don't understand why you'd do research, probably try the keyboard out yourself, and spend so much money on it...yet when it comes to mixers and such you decide to go cheap and don't inform yourself. I don't mean to be a dick but I'm not sure some of you realize how much a mixer and the built-in preamps affects sound, not to mention the quality of the other components. A mixer isn't a mixer and it's not gear elitism on my part...spend five minutes in the Live Sound & Production Forum or the Recording Forums here at KSS and I'm sure you'll see that not only is Behringer one of the worst decisions you can make, but a decent mixer (not great) is important to a setup. These are people that frequently work with all kinds of gear and have tons of experience on the best and the worst. Furthermore, if you're looking for bang for the buck, why is stuff like motorized sliders and how impressed your friends will be prioritized over sound quality? I'm not necessarily questioning your motives or saying you're wrong for doing that, I'm just confused. Maybe I just don't get it. If you don't want to spend a lot of money on a mixer, AT LEAST go with Mackie. If you really think you're going to find a good sounding eight channel mixer with motorized sliders for $220 you're being a little naive. Better to spend that $220 on a regular four-channel mixer...the money will be spent on component and preamp quality rather than motorized sliders. EDIT: My mistake! We're talking about a software controller. I read the first post and saw "hardware mixer" and thought we were talking about normal mixers, which is why I was getting a little confused about the whole thing. I'm so used to seeing people on KSS Forum talking about regular Behringer mixers that I didn't even think it might be a USB/MIDI thing. I was going to post again about the mixers lack of channel EQs and master EQ, and lack of outputs etc so I clicked the link to try and figure out what was going on with this seemingly useless thing and realized at the site it's for computers! Doi. I'd delete all my posts but I'd be rather be honest about my dip{censored}tedness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members clusterchord Posted April 23, 2004 Members Share Posted April 23, 2004 ..but neither of these gadgets will f.. up the sound of your synths, no? they're just controllers/editors and have no contact with signal chain... OTOH, altough it's tempting, i've been wondering about built quality/durability and software compatibility, because i hate Behringer products/philosophy as well, and trust them nothing when it comes to their marketing bull. as explody pup pointed out already, time will tell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kirumamoru Posted April 23, 2004 Members Share Posted April 23, 2004 Not being an audiophile I can't really say anything to back up the Potato's remarks, but having owned three pieces of Behringer gear that all ended up defective, I have to say that, when you think that Behri's prices are too good to be true, they are. Mackie isn't the only choice besides Behringer, either. Yamaha makes some nice mixers that are only priced a few $10-notes higher than comparable Behringers, and while I haven't owned mine long enough to know if it's going to fail the same way, it certainly has a much higher overall feel of quality to it. Kiru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fear My Potato Posted April 23, 2004 Members Share Posted April 23, 2004 Read my edit My beef with Behringer is build quality and component quality. Personally I've had no mechanical problems with them, but I've heard a lot of stories. It seems to be a very mixed bag with them. Not very reassuring. Component quality is my biggest concern. For the prices you charge you have to expect terrible preamps and all, which in live sound hardware like a regular mixer will absolutely kill your sound. With a controller like this you wouldn't have to worry about that since it isn't processing the signal, just sending messages to the computer mixer (or whatever it's controlling) right? I might consider Behringer for something like a controller...but I would never dream of sending an audio signal through it. I only mentioned Mackie because the Mackie lines are so similar to the Behringer lines superficially, so if you like what Behringer offers you can generally like Mackie as well. Behringer will be cheaper because of cheaper components, but bear in mind even if prices are similar they're probably stuffing their pockets with it, not putting the extra cost into components that are actiually worth of anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mytee2.0 Posted April 23, 2004 Members Share Posted April 23, 2004 *going off topic warning* behringer vs mackie vs _____ I think would be moot sound quality wise for people like me. I doubt I could tell the difference in sound between them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sinner6 Posted April 23, 2004 Members Share Posted April 23, 2004 It almost like we are talking about MIDI controllers.....only different. Just because I kind of want to be burned a t the stake tonite I will admit that I run my HOSA cables into my BEHRINGER mixer, which then goes to my AUDIGY soundcard. I know the miserable sound quality should have me at the brink of suicide, but for some strange reason I am quite pleased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeez Posted April 23, 2004 Members Share Posted April 23, 2004 Originally posted by myteeGTi ...or you could just write it all down on paper True, but that only works while you've got a handfull of different configurations for the controllers. Let's take the sliderbank as an example: Twenty-four track project - three setups (mixer banks) Eight sofsynth[s| channels] - eight setups sixteen audio channels - one setup (channel details). Ten different effect plugins on the audio tracks - ten setups. So, for a medium-sized project, we're looking at over twenty different configurations for the controller. Forever, Kim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sysera Posted April 23, 2004 Members Share Posted April 23, 2004 I don't give a {censored} what anyone says about Behringer. I've never had any problems with any of the gear I have of theirs, and when I can afford it, I'll be all over these. THAT is a reasonable price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Roald Posted April 23, 2004 Members Share Posted April 23, 2004 Jeez, you are not going to tell me that you would want to work with 20 different controller setups anyway?? How do you keep an overview??? maybe I am the over simplistic Rhodes player here, but I have more or less 'fixed' mix ideas, and I would use a controller as a 'virtual mix desk' (i.e. controlling channel volume) or some softsynth knobissues, but not more. Then a sheet of paper would do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeez Posted April 23, 2004 Members Share Posted April 23, 2004 Originally posted by Roald Jeez, you are not going to tell me that you would want to work with 20 different controller setups anyway?? Erm... I'm not really sure what you're asking here. I just described a typical pop project for me. With my style of working, I'd be flipping controller configurations so often that switching paper overlays would become a pain-dans-la-arse-royale. I'll keep mousemixing until I can have automatic text updates (like the more expensive controllers), or one knob per function. Forever, Kim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Roald Posted April 23, 2004 Members Share Posted April 23, 2004 ok. I am always amazed at how people can retain the overview over their gear anyway. In the last SOS there was a nice article about Autechre and how they use their studio as an instrument. LOADS and LOADS of control data and graphs and stuff in Cubase or Logic. Sometimes up to 70 or 80 tracks... That would make me panic: I play everything I record live, dont record midi or controller data, dont do fader riding during mixing, and have standard eq and processing settings that I use everytime because I always use the same instruments. I tend to get lost when I have more than 8 tracks at the same time in a song :-) am I too narrowminded? I sometimes wonder. But then again the mixes I do are okay for what I intended them for...I better leave producing to someone else.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fear My Potato Posted April 23, 2004 Members Share Posted April 23, 2004 Originally posted by sysera I don't give a {censored} what anyone says about Behringer. I've never had any problems with any of the gear I have of theirs, and when I can afford it, I'll be all over these. THAT is a reasonable price. Yeah it's a reasonable price for what you're getting. Have you ever used anything better than Behringer as far as mixers go? I'm just curious for reference purposes. I thought Yamaha PSRs were the {censored} until about a year later. Initially I was inexperienced and unfamiliar with the sound of the board so I thought it sounded fine. Eventually I started to hear the cheapness, especially after hearing better boards. It's the same with mixers, it can be hard to hear the sterility of the preamps if you haven't been using it for a time and haven't ever used anything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members keanu reeves Posted April 23, 2004 Members Share Posted April 23, 2004 why are you kids arguing about mixers and the sound quality thereof. these are midi controllers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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