How hard is it to tune a piano?

[ooooo]

Hi, here's the situation. My parent's have a Kimball? ,i think, old upright piano...bought for 5 or 600 bucks about 14 years ago. It basically only gets played when I come home...about once a year. The last time I was home it was unplayable with a c harmonica....not horribly out of tune, but could be better. I can only remember one time they had it tuned about 10 years ago.

 

Are there any how to books that I could use to get it in tune, instead of them having to pay 100 bucks for a tuning on something that only gets played a few times a year? I think it would be fun to tune it, but I don't want to screw it up...or spend 5 days working on it, not get it right, and end up having to call a pro.

 

Any ideas?

 

Thanks!

[Lanstar Zero]

Yeah, it's pretty hard! Their is a reason why the "pros" get paid so much. From what I have learned, this is the method to the tunung: the higher up you go from middle C, each key is tuned exponentially VERY slightly sharp, and the lower you go down from middle C each key is tuned exponentially VERY slightly flat. Their is definitely a science to it!

[arpeggio]

Yeah but it's still easier than to tune a fish.... Sorry but somebody had to say it.

[orangefunk]

 

Originally posted by Lanstar Zero Yeah, it's pretty hard! Their is a reason why the "pros" get paid so much. From what I have learned, this is the method to the tunung: the higher up you go from middle C, each key is tuned exponentially VERY slightly sharp, and the lower you go down from middle C each key is tuned exponentially VERY slightly flat. Their is definitely a science to it!

 

 

this sounds a bit like "stretch" tuning... I know that theres a chart in my rhodes handbook which showed this..

[Darkstorm]

I dont think I've ever seen a piano with row of tuning pegs like guitar has for its strings. So what do they use to tighten or loosen string for tuning?

[Trillian]

There is an art to piano tuning and it takes prob a few years to get good at it. Also, consider that there are tools you would need and also, if you break a string or mess up a tuning pin you'll be even further backward.

 

If it's really out of tune you may be able to get a tuning key (I think they call it a tuning hammer or something) cheap enough and you may be able to correct anything that is way out to an acceptable tuning but to really get it in good tune would be difficult, time consuming and possibly risky. You also have to know how to 'seat' the tuning pins so they don't slip back.

 

You can find cheaper tuners and you can get a tuner to do just a quicky tuning rather than a serious full-on job.

 

I'd say it's better to try and find a professional tuner who will do an acceptable job cheap than to try and tackle something like that yourself.

 

-Sheryl

[pink floyd cramer]

I remember about 20 years ago I tried to tune my Grandmother's horribly out-of-tune upright. I got it to sound better- but only if you stuck to the key of "C". You might get a tuning hammer to fix

a couple really bad notes, but I concur with the others posting here.

[Pilot]

I sometimes tune my piano but I wouldn't recommend it as it's so easy to make a mistake. My local tuner wouldn't even sell me a tuning hammer because he said I didn't know what I was doing (he was right). So I made my own which works OK. But you really need a lot of experience. I have a little book called "Tune and Repair Your Own Piano" by Michael Johnson and Robin Mackworthy-Young, published by Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, but it's pretty old (1978) and was printed in UK. There are a few websites which mention piano tuning if you feel like searching.

 

Bryan

[Rockman59]

And don't forget....you can tune a piano but you can't tuna fish.

[ebonivory]

I have tuning instruments and in between tunings I'll tune clinkers here and there..My piano tuner showed me how, and to tune individual notes is fairly easy.

 

But to completely tune your own piano if you're not a professional piano tuner is like doing brain surgery on yourself, or worse, being your own attorney.

[funkstar]

 

Originally posted by orangefunk this sounds a bit like "stretch" tuning... I know that theres a chart in my rhodes handbook which showed this..

 

"Stretch" tuning is based on the fact that most people don't think pure intervals sound pure. Many people will overrate, say, an octave 5-10 cents, (a cent is a hundreth of twelfth of an octave) possibly because this produces a more complex harmonics series than the pure octave. This is incorporated into a modern piano tuning by spreading the extra cents over the keys (this isn't as bad as it sounds (hehe): Remember that a well-tempering is also very slighty false compared to the perfect pythagorean tuning.)

 

Calculating a stretch well-tempered tuning (lets say 5 cents extra per octave) should be easy:

 

Ordinary well-tempering gives the following ratio for the frequency of two consecutive notes on the keyboard - the 12 root of 2 (remember that a perfect octave has exactly the double frequency of the base). Let's call this T. This works out nicely when looking at, say, a fouth: T^5 ~ 1.335 giving us approximately the 3 to 4 ratio of the base to the fourth you should know, and for a fith: T^7 ~ 1.498 giving us the 2 to 3 ratio of the fifth. Of course, T^12 = 2; the octave is pure.

 

In a 5 cent stretch tuning, instead of using T as the ratio between to consecutive keys, one would use the twelth root of (2 x (5 X 100th root of T)). This would offset an octave exactly 5 cents higher than perfect tuning, and spread this out over the keys.

 

However, piano tuning is also very much an art. Most frequency measurers you'll be able to afford, will not have the precision you need to ensure that the stretch (or just well-tempering) is even over the spread of the piano, so unless you have a very good ear (or a hell of a lot of time) I wouldn't bother doing it myself.

[Kirumamoru]

If I ever get a piano, I would want to be able to tune it myself... maybe I'm just arrogant (and overconfident in my ear) but I have trouble imagining it being all that difficult. I mean, I've watched someone doing it, up close, and my reaction was... yeah, that's not too hard.

 

Kiru

[scubyfan]

Originally posted by Kirumamoru If I ever get a piano, I would want to be able to tune it myself... maybe I'm just arrogant (and overconfident in my ear) but I have trouble imagining it being all that difficult. I mean, I've watched someone doing it, up close, and my reaction was... yeah, that's not too hard. Kiru

 

I've had the same reaction watching a triple bypass on TLC.

[Is.]

Piano tuning is probably harder than it looks, but until I hear somebody who is actually a brain surgeon and a skilled piano tuner compare the two skills in terms of difficulty, I'll remain highly skeptical that the two are actually comparable.

[Kirumamoru]

Originally posted by scubyfan I've had the same reaction watching a triple bypass on TLC.

Heh, well... I'd have to admit that performing life-threatening surgery on someone is a rather intimidating concept... whereas I don't find the idea of piano tuning to be anywhere near as intimidating. Besides... if I couldn't tune it myself, I'd have to get it tuned every few months, or it would just drive me nuts... I'm pretty sure the wrench and a how-to book would pay for themselves pretty quickly.

 

Kiru

[ebonivory]

 

Originally posted by Kirumamoru Heh, well... I'd have to admit that performing life-threatening surgery on someone is a rather intimidating concept... whereas I don't find the idea of piano tuning to be anywhere near as intimidating. Besides... if I couldn't tune it myself, I'd have to get it tuned every few months, or it would just drive me nuts... I'm pretty sure the wrench and a how-to book would pay for themselves pretty quickly. Kiru

 

 

It is a learned process, and there are definitely formulas to it, so it's not rocket science. But the thing is to put in the time that you could use doing something else, or learning more about music, would be a waste of time to me. I know about the "being driven nuts" part when it's out of tune. I've struck a deal with my piano tuner, where I get a really good reduced rate for him to do guaranteed regular tunings for me.

[scubyfan]

 

Originally posted by Kirumamoru Heh, well... I'd have to admit that performing life-threatening surgery on someone is a rather intimidating concept... whereas I don't find the idea of piano tuning to be anywhere near as intimidating. Besides... if I couldn't tune it myself, I'd have to get it tuned every few months, or it would just drive me nuts... I'm pretty sure the wrench and a how-to book would pay for themselves pretty quickly. Kiru

 

 

Sure, my reply was in partial jest, but I think risking some damage to the piano - whether cosmetic or otherwise - is not in the best interest of any piano owner, especially mid to high-end grand owners. I would consider you to be more than a casual piano owner (eventually), so the chances of damage would be minimal.

 

I can see why your situation is different, though, as you would play it on an almost daily basis and thus require more frequent tunings. I can see the alternative as kidnapping your local piano tuner and making him tune your piano for kibbles 'n' bits. Or money.

[Keybass]

I have been a tuner for about 12 years. It is very tough to set a temperment by ear. It is just as difficult to set a pin properly and equalize the stress in a string.

 

For those who think it's easy I suggest you give it a try and then see how it sounds.

[Kirumamoru]

 

Originally posted by scubyfan Sure, my reply was in partial jest, but I think risking some damage to the piano - whether cosmetic or otherwise - is not in the best interest of any piano owner, especially mid to high-end grand owners. I would consider you to be more than a casual piano owner (eventually), so the chances of damage would be minimal. I can see why your situation is different, though, as you would play it on an almost daily basis and thus require more frequent tunings. I can see the alternative as kidnapping your local piano tuner and making him tune your piano for kibbles 'n' bits. Or money.

 

Ha ha... actually, the way things have been going for me, I'm liable to spend more time actually tuning it than playing it... in fact, I've thought on more than one occasion that it might be worthwhile to actually train to be a piano tuner and put my shingle out, so to speak.

 

Kiru

[DeepSleeper]

Originally posted by Kirumamoru Ha ha... actually, the way things have been going for me, I'm liable to spend more time actually tuning it than playing it... in fact, I've thought on more than one occasion that it might be worthwhile to actually train to be a piano tuner and put my shingle out, so to speak. Kiru

 

Kiru - sounds to me like possessing perfect pitch is more of a bane to you, rather than a blessing?

[Kirumamoru]

Originally posted by DeepSleeper Kiru - sounds to me like possessing perfect pitch is more of a bane to you, rather than a blessing?

No... I just mean I haven't really been musically productive recently and I haven't spent much time playing piano.... Digital pianos are never out of tune lol.

 

Kiru

[Trillian]

Originally posted by Kirumamoru If I ever get a piano, I would want to be able to tune it myself... maybe I'm just arrogant (and overconfident in my ear) but I have trouble imagining it being all that difficult. I mean, I've watched someone doing it, up close, and my reaction was... yeah, that's not too hard. Kiru

 

 

Yeah and if you ever go to the magic castle in LA and watch them in the close-up rooms, that doesn't look too hard either, so get yourself a pack of cards the next day and see if you can do the same thing. Come to think of it, I've watched lots of Formula 1 on telly and that doesn't look too hard either, it's just driving fast innit

 

-Sheryl

[ebonivory]

 

Originally posted by Keybass I have been a tuner for about 12 years. It is very tough to set a temperment by ear. It is just as difficult to set a pin properly and equalize the stress in a string. For those who think it's easy I suggest you give it a try and then see how it sounds.

 

 

I totally agree with you. Like many other crafts taken years to learn, those performing it make it look easy. I am always astounded at my piano tuner's ability to make my piano sing and not sound just like a bunch of notes in tune, but as one beautiful cohesive instrument.

[spinman]

I wanted to learn piano tuning for a while as a "day job" while I developed my music career. I bought a book on the subject and started reading. After finishing the book, and checking around with some tuners, I changed my mind. It's not easy, it's very difficult. I've got a friend who tunes pianos and it took him several years to get good enough and fast enough to make it a feasable income.

 

It's not as easy as it seems.

[Dave Hammond]

A longtime family friend is a piano tuner who went to the tuning school and worked as an apprentice.

 

The local music store quit using him and found they could send any person they wanted out with a stroboconn and hammer and compete against him. He would complain a great deal about having to come in and correct these instruments. The fact is, some people can tell whether a piano has been tuned by a professional and others don't mind if someone hacked it with a strobe tuner.

 

I have an old electric grand piano. I know this is simpler than a real piano, but I got myself a hammer and I've been tuning it myself since the 1980s. I've been plugging into a chromatic guitar tuner and not worrying about doing a stretch tuning. There was a time when I was moving it quite a bit for live performances and it would have been impractical to hire a professional tuner as often as necessary. I beat tune octaves at the extreme ends where the pitch doesn't register well on the tuner. I'm satisfied with the results.