Members Trillian Posted June 2, 2004 Members Share Posted June 2, 2004 Does anyone here have any experience with the New England Digital Synclavier ? I recorded in a few studios where other people had them but they were so expensive at the time that I didn't really pay terribly close attention to what it could do. I am only interested in the FM synth side of it. I have been told that it could do really amazing FM stuff. the later ones with sampling capability also had resynthesis. There are a couple on Ebay now but I don't know if they do anything really useful in the context of todays instruments and software or if they are just museum pieces. -Sheryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orangefunk Posted June 2, 2004 Members Share Posted June 2, 2004 From what I remember the FM section was outclassed by the later efforts by Yamaha with the DX-7... or at least thats what I remember reading back in 1986 ish in E&MM (Electronics and Music Maker) I think the weird talking lead sound on Mama by Genesis was on a Synclavier II (FM only model with no sampling) In fact I think the Synclavier II didn't have the weighted keyboard just a normal synth action, the later Synclavier models had weighted action... My favourite CD with a Synclav was Eddie Jobsons "Theme of Secrets", from 1985 just damn amazing, not sure if he had the sampling option but I didn't hear those sounds again until the Korg M1 came out... there were lots of those pads mixed with some kind of movement type sounds Could be an interesting curiosity at the right price, can't imagine it being that great by todays standards (I'm thinking of the original 1982 model here)... Oh and John Tesh uses one, always a sign of quality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Trillian Posted June 2, 2004 Author Members Share Posted June 2, 2004 Originally posted by Plastic Baby Been in contact with simone and she did not go ahead with the deal ( kept her cmi ) I remember the keyboard to be of high quality but the cost of the things back then left me in a state of confusion, as in why? If you do not mind me asking, what price is the one your looking at? Rather have a DX1 P.B. Well, they turn up now and then for around 2 grand or so. The one on Ebay now is at Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orangefunk Posted June 2, 2004 Members Share Posted June 2, 2004 Originally posted by Trillian Well, they turn up now and then for around 2 grand or so. The one on Ebay now is at Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChetSinger Posted June 3, 2004 Members Share Posted June 3, 2004 Originally posted by Trillian I am only interested in the FM synth side of it. I have been told that it could do really amazing FM stuff. I've never used one (way too pricey). But I've heard that the original Synclavier was a hybrid digital/analog machine. The digital part was a two-oscillator FM design. The modulator was a sine wave, and the carrier was a complex wave where the amplitude of the first 24 harmonics could be specified. The output then went through analog filters. Chet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cryptozoon Posted June 3, 2004 Members Share Posted June 3, 2004 Originally posted by Trillian I am only interested in the FM synth side of it. I have been told that it could do really amazing FM stuff...the later ones with sampling capability also had resynthesis. I've used Synclaviers since the prototype stage and through every upgrade & many configurations up through the late nineties. I think they sound great. Regarding FM functionality specifically: Frequency Modulation is treated differently on different synths, so it's hard to grasp just how uniquely FM is used within the context of a Synclavier environment if your only experience with FM is, say, on a VA with one knob labeled 'FM'. The real power of the original Synclavier lies in the combination of Fourrier styled synthesis and FM to create stunningly organic sounds - even if one isn't specifically creating simulations of 'real' instruments. Resynthesis was an interesting aside - I think more interesting to 'computer musicians', less so to traditional composers & songwriters. Briefly: up to 96 individual sample instruments, if I remember correctly, each with their own envelope could be sequenced by triggering a single key stroke, so for instance, a single key stroke would sound out a trumpet attack into a violin down stroke into a child's laugh into a car horn, etc - up to 96 changes if one so desired. The downside? Well, the relatively low cost for an instrument today compared to the astronomical prices of yesteryear is still nevertheless deceptive because you're likely to necessitate upgrades and continued maintenance - it's sort of like a very fine antique watch in that respect. If money is not an option I recommend you buy the Synclavier and fly me in for a week so that I can teach you how to use it. Great History of Synclavier and features site here: http://home.earthlink.net/~yaking/html/wsnHIST.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mutineer Posted June 3, 2004 Members Share Posted June 3, 2004 Paul Hardcastle - big user of the synclavier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mutineer Posted June 3, 2004 Members Share Posted June 3, 2004 Originally posted by Plastic Baby n, n, n, 19 ( great track by the way ) P.B. none of them received a hero's welcome none of them none of them n n n n none of them none of none of none of them n n n n ... etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orangefunk Posted June 3, 2004 Members Share Posted June 3, 2004 anyone ever noticed they called the sampler in Reason "NN-19" pretty damn funny... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mook Posted June 3, 2004 Members Share Posted June 3, 2004 From what I recall the Synclavier used a Prophet VS keyboard. I think it had 100khz sampling which Trevor Horn used to great effect on his productions by slowing down samples (and which sound so much better than if originally sampled at say 44.1khz) Also I remember seeing a Tomorrows World (UK TV prog) special back in the 80's about the Synclavier where Trevor Horn & Steve Lipson produced the Act single Snobbery & Decay on there. http://www.synclavier.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orangefunk Posted June 3, 2004 Members Share Posted June 3, 2004 I'm fairly sure it was a Prophet T8 keyboard... it was weighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mook Posted June 3, 2004 Members Share Posted June 3, 2004 Originally posted by orangefunk I'm fairly sure it was a Prophet T8 keyboard... it was weighted. Yeah, one of them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Etcher Posted June 4, 2004 Members Share Posted June 4, 2004 "I have to go deliver a baby- baby- bbbbaby-bbaby! Jam it on the one! J-Jam it-Jam it on the one!" Everytime I hear "Synclavier", I remember that episode of the Cosby show where they met Stevie Wonder. Saw a rerun of it about a year ago, and every time Stevie would refer to it, he'd actually call it his "Synclavier", instead of just his "sampler" or "keyboard". Kinda erks me when people do that; not really sure why. Sounds to fakey and promotional I think. "Jam it on the one!" ('the hell does that mean anyways? Theo was truly ahead of his time! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cryptozoon Posted June 5, 2004 Members Share Posted June 5, 2004 Originally posted by Etcher ...every time Stevie would refer to it, he'd actually call it his "Synclavier", instead of just his "sampler" or "keyboard". Kinda erks me when people do that; not really sure why. Sounds to fakey and promotional I think. I hear what you're saying, but the people who used these instruments fell in love with them and considered them as uniquely individual as a violin, tuba, piano, etc. Synclavier users, especially when New England Digital was still around, formed a relatively small (given the original price: 40K-250K) community of enthusiastic admirers (despite the crashes that always broke your heart). Compare that kind of product loyalty with today's attitude where last years VA, DAW, whatever, 'feels old' and insufficient as soon as you flip through the advertisments of the latest Keyboard or Sound on Sound magazine. I've since changed to fresher tools myself, but damn, those years of helming a Synclavier had such a romance about them. I certainly don't feel the same way about any of the gear I'm using today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Etcher Posted June 5, 2004 Members Share Posted June 5, 2004 WHoa! I guess if I paid $250,000 for a synth, I'd probably let everyone know which one it was every time I talked about it too! Were those things made out of platinum or something?!! Oh well, as Theo said, "Jam it on the one!":D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Synthoid Posted June 5, 2004 Members Share Posted June 5, 2004 I read an interesting piece about the Synclavier. The company (NED) became quite wealthy from the buyers, then even richer from all the accessories and software upgrades. Then they closed shop, leaving a lot of Synclavier owners high and dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orangefunk Posted June 5, 2004 Members Share Posted June 5, 2004 Originally posted by Synthoid I read an interesting piece about the Synclavier. The company (NED) became quite wealthy from the buyers, then even richer from all the accessories and software upgrades. Then they closed shop, leaving a lot of Synclavier owners high and dry. Yep and reportedly they had a special subroutine in their code and that would detect if you fitted RAM from another manufacturer and actually blow an IC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members suitandtieguy Posted June 6, 2004 Members Share Posted June 6, 2004 Originally posted by orangefunk Yep and reportedly they had a special subroutine in their code and that would detect if you fitted RAM from another manufacturer and actually blow an IC! that's pure evil. where did you hear that from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orangefunk Posted June 6, 2004 Members Share Posted June 6, 2004 Originally posted by suitandtieguy that's pure evil. where did you hear that from? It was in Keyboard mag when they found out NED had gone under... people were fitting Apple MAC Simms and NED were losing business because of it... apparently when people updated their systems to newer OS's NED fixed it so it would not work properly or blow an IC Can't remember the exact year but it must be early 90s I'd think. I know they were interviewing lots of Synclavier owners who felt that they were up the creek without a paddle now that NED had gone under and were coming out with all kinds of bad things about NED... whether they were true or not is another thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Synthoid Posted June 8, 2004 Members Share Posted June 8, 2004 Sounds like NED was really greedy. Sheesh! Well, if it's true, they got what they deserved--bankruptcy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members elsongs Posted June 8, 2004 Members Share Posted June 8, 2004 Originally posted by Mookus From what I recall the Synclavier used a Prophet VS keyboard. I think it had 100khz sampling which Trevor Horn used to great effect on his productions by slowing down samples (and which sound so much better than if originally sampled at say 44.1khz) What?!?! The Synclavier came out years before the Prophet VS came out. Also, Trevor Horn was a Fairlight man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members elsongs Posted June 8, 2004 Members Share Posted June 8, 2004 Originally posted by Etcher "I have to go deliver a baby- baby- bbbbaby-bbaby! Jam it on the one! J-Jam it-Jam it on the one!" Everytime I hear "Synclavier", I remember that episode of the Cosby show where they met Stevie Wonder. "Jam it on the one!" ('the hell does that mean anyways? Theo was truly ahead of his time! ) Haha yes I remember that one. Does anyone also remember around the same time when Herbie Hancock did something similar - On a Fairlight - on "Sesame Street" and sampled some kids talking into it? Herbie sampled this little girl and asked her what her name was and she said, "Tatiana Ali!" and played it in different keys. Years later, that girl grew up and played Wil Smith's cousin on "The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cryptozoon Posted June 8, 2004 Members Share Posted June 8, 2004 Originally posted by elsongs Trevor Horn was a Fairlight man. Trevor Horn had/has serious gear lust for every available technology - although whether he personally used a Synclavier or a Fairlight is questionable. He certainly collaborated with capable musicians, engineers & programmers who he used to get the most out of any piece of gear - and they/him used Synclaviers on a variety of projects he produced. Originally posted by Synthoid Sounds like NED was really greedy...if it's true, they (NED) got what they deserved--bankruptcy. I think the principle problem with NED, aside from the fact that their products cost a fortune, was that they (and Fairlight) ceased to be the only option that delivered a 'studio-in-a-box'. In the early nineties the worldwide music production community all saw Digidesign and other similar PC/Mac based products appear on the horizon. These products never really delivered the same experience that a Synclavier did, but they provided another way of working at less cost that provided professionally acceptable results. NED made a huge mistake by sticking with a custom designed (and really buggy) mini-computer instead of moving over to a PC or Mac platform -if only because of an alleged & ill-conceived idea that they could maintain a price point and some sort of upper echelon user exclusivity by doing so. Simply put, I don't think they realized the extent of competition that studios with a cheaper ProTools set up would have on their clients & potential clients wallets. Who was going to drop 75K on a however fantastic synthesizer/production set up when a 10K and a mac would do it? That said, it's ironic to now see ProTools set-ups approaching the price point that Synclaviers once did. Maybe that sort of evolution is inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members elsongs Posted June 8, 2004 Members Share Posted June 8, 2004 Originally posted by cryptozoon Trevor Horn had/has serious gear lust for every available technology - although whether he personally used a Synclavier or a Fairlight is questionable. He certainly collaborated with capable musicians, engineers & programmers who he used to get the most out of any piece of gear - and they/him used Synclaviers on a variety of projects he produced. I say this because a lot of people in the '80s were partisan to either the Fairlight (Nick Rhodes, Art of Noise, Herbie Hancock, Jan Hammer) or the Synclavier (Stevie Wonder, Quincy Jones, Sting). Andy Summers once said that the last Police recording session back in 1986 was ruined mostly because Stewart Copeland (a Failright type) and Sting kept arguing about which was the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mook Posted June 8, 2004 Members Share Posted June 8, 2004 I think Crypto was pretty much spot on. On the early Art of Noise stuff and FGTH albums J.J. Jeczalik operated the Fairlight, whereas later on with the Act & Liverpool albums Steve Lipson operated the Synclavier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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