Members GigMan Posted March 9, 2005 Members Share Posted March 9, 2005 So I have been really mulling over the whole mono vs. stereo issue lately: how I have these great-sounding JBL EON15 G2 PA speaker cabinets that are awesome for vocals, keys, drum machine, guitars, CD's etc... but since I often only bring one of them, the whole "your digital piano tone won't sound as good in mono as it does in stereo..." thing has really started to stick in my craw. I am willing to invest money into a quality stereo amp to improve [allegedly] my sound. Besides, another amp is always good to have as a backup or for flexibility. The thing is though, my EONs just sound so good for vocals. If I started using a Motion-Sound stereo amp like the KP200S or the smaller (and more likely choice for me) the KP100S - I would need to sing thru it on some Solo gigs (the ones where I sing...duh ) and I'm just not sure how it would sound. I'd run the mic. and keys into my Mackie DFX6 first, which has built-in effects, and then run a line from that into the Motion Sound. Has anyone tried this? Singing thru one of these Motion Sound puppies? How does it sound? The Pro? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone?... Of course, if I use the mixer I'd then actually have to run 2 lines from it to the amp: a Left AND Right output from it to the Motion Sound in order to maintain the stereo signal throughout the chain... aye-yaye-yaye... it's enough to give you cable nightmares! Your comments, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Pro Posted March 10, 2005 Members Share Posted March 10, 2005 Sorry GM, I don't have an answer for you... I haven't tried vocals through my KP's. Although I used to sing and work with vocalists, I have only done instrumental gigs with both my KP-100s and KP-200s to date. I get the feeling that you would be defeating the idea anyway... I look at my KP's as a replacement for a PA, and sometime I use my JBL's to augment the KP's... but the idea behind the KP's for me is to have a simple-to-use stereo keyboard rig without having to carry all the components that make up a PA. From what you are describing, using a mixer to go into the KP's, I don't think you'd benefit much at all over what you have right now. Heck, you may cause yourself even more work. I still think a pair of JBL EON's sound better than either of my KP-series amps overall, especially over the smaller KP-100s which lacks the bass response of the KP-200s by far. But I get stuck into tight places often enough and just love the one-piece KP's for my keys. I just don't know how well they'd sound for singing - they may do fine but they may not - but it doesn't sound like they'd save you from carting a mixer around like they do for me. I guess if you feel strongly about this then you might get a KP and try it for yourself as a PA (you could always return it), but you might be just as well off using both of your EONs. I'll be intersted in seeing how you finally resolve this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miket156 Posted March 10, 2005 Members Share Posted March 10, 2005 Quote by Gigman:----------------------------------------------------------------So I have been really mulling over the whole mono vs. stereo issue lately: how I have these great-sounding JBL EON15 G2 PA speaker cabinets that are awesome for vocals, keys, drum machine, guitars, CD's etc... ---------------------------------------------------------------- Gigman my friend, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Anyway, I know what you REALLY want is an RD700sx. Don't waste money on a subsitute for something that you're already happy with, your Eon's. Mike T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted March 10, 2005 Author Members Share Posted March 10, 2005 Originally posted by The Pro Sorry GM, I don't have an answer for you... I haven't tried vocals through my KP's. Although I used to sing and work with vocalists, I have only done instrumental gigs with both my KP-100s and KP-200s to date. I get the feeling that you would be defeating the idea anyway... I look at my KP's as a replacement for a PA, and sometime I use my JBL's to augment the KP's... but the idea behind the KP's for me is to have a simple-to-use stereo keyboard rig without having to carry all the components that make up a PA. From what you are describing, using a mixer to go into the KP's, I don't think you'd benefit much at all over what you have right now. Heck, you may cause yourself even more work. I still think a pair of JBL EON's sound better than either of my KP-series amps overall, especially over the smaller KP-100s which lacks the bass response of the KP-200s by far. But I get stuck into tight places often enough and just love the one-piece KP's for my keys. I just don't know how well they'd sound for singing - they may do fine but they may not - but it doesn't sound like they'd save you from carting a mixer around like they do for me. I guess if you feel strongly about this then you might get a KP and try it for yourself as a PA (you could always return it), but you might be just as well off using both of your EONs. I'll be intersted in seeing how you finally resolve this. Right - I think when vocals are involved, the EON(s) kick butt. However, on some solo gigs I sure as heck am not going to bring two of them - there's no room! Sometimes even one is tight to squeeze into the little spaces I'm stuck in. Even if I'm only bringing one EON then I still do get that great vocal sound, but now I'm in mono - not stereo. Of course, with my current gear (Ensoniq KS-32 controlling a Kurzweil MicroPiano) - I don't think the mono/stereo, phase cancellatiion, etc... is an issue: I think the piano samples - good as they sound for 12 or 13yr. old technology - are actually in mono to begin with. But when I pop for that RD700SX (or maybe the 300, to save my back!) - then I'll be wishing I had a stereo amp. So it's an amp upgrade to accomodate a future keyboard upgrade... ha ha Seriously, though: that Motion Sound KP100S does look like a nice little setup - it is in stereo and is actually lighter than one of my EON15 G2's (KP100S = 38lbs., EON15 G2 = 46lbs.). The lack of bass in the KP100 wouldn't be an issue - I'd only be using it for small rooms. And it might be a little more work to wire up stereo connections to a mixer and then L/R Main Outs from mixer to the MotionSound amp - but if it sounds really sweet in stereo it might be worth it. It would certainly beat lugging two EON15 G2's around. Of course, I could consider what I thought of a while back: invest in a pair of the JBL EON10's, which are extremely light (23lbs) and yet would sound the same as the EON15's only less powerful (hopefully they sound the same). Case closed. BTW, Pro - When using the KP200S as a stage monitor in a band situation, it's nice that you can send balanced XLR line outs right from it to the house FOH PA. But can you adjust the volume of the KP200S itself separately from the signal you send to the PA? ie, every time you increase volume on the KP200S does it also increase the signal going to the PA as well? That's one advantage of using a mixer - you control stage volume separately from the volume of the signal you send to the main PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ed Wall Posted March 10, 2005 Members Share Posted March 10, 2005 Gigman If you have room for a powered monitor you could send left channel to your JBL EON and the right to your powered monitor. Let the JBL do most of the work and then bring up the monitor volume gradually untill you get a little stereo spread. Your audience will only hear your piano in mono but seriously, it's still going to sound pretty good and 99% of them are not going to know the difference. Meanwhile your getting a stereo mix that sounds sweet and inspiring. Maybe something small like one of those powered Fender monitors would do the trick. You wont need that much volume if it's close and pointed right at you. I did this alot before I bought my Bose PAS...... EWall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted March 10, 2005 Author Members Share Posted March 10, 2005 Originally posted by Ed Wall GigmanIf you have room for a powered monitor you could send left channel to your JBL EON and the right to your powered monitor.Let the JBL do most of the work and then bring up the monitor volume gradually untill you get a little stereo spread.Your audience will only hear your piano in mono but seriously, it's still going to sound pretty good and 99% of them are not going to know the difference.Meanwhile your getting a stereo mix that sounds sweet and inspiring. Maybe something small like one of those powered Fender monitors would do the trick. You wont need that much volume if it's close and pointed right at you.I did this alot before I bought my Bose PAS...... EWall Interesting, but the JBL EON15 G2 IS a powered monitor - I could just bring both cabinets in my pair to accomplish that. Instead, that's why I'm considering the Motion-Sound units: stereo, yet only 1 cabinet to lug around with you. BTW -I don't follow: in that scenario you describe, why would the audience hear mono but I would hear stereo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Pro Posted March 10, 2005 Members Share Posted March 10, 2005 Originally posted by GigMan BTW, Pro - When using the KP200S as a stage monitor in a band situation, it's nice that you can send balanced XLR line outs right from it to the house FOH PA. But can you adjust the volume of the KP200S itself separately from the signal you send to the PA? ie, every time you increase volume on the KP200S does it also increase the signal going to the PA as well? That's one advantage of using a mixer - you control stage volume separately from the volume of the signal you send to the main PA. I just confirmed this in my KP owner's manual, quote: "Volume, expand and EQ affect XLR output signals." So increasing the volume on the KP200s/KP100s DOES increase the signal going to the FOH PA. Not a good answer but a very good question. Just as a note: I used to own a pair of the powered EON15's like yours but they were too bulky and cumbersome so I sold them and bought a pair of the EON10's instead for the very reasons you mentioned - lighter/smaller PA for gigs. They make great expansion speakers for my KP's - all you need are a pair of mic cables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted March 10, 2005 Author Members Share Posted March 10, 2005 Originally posted by The Pro I just confirmed this in my KP owner's manual, quote: "Volume, expand and EQ affect XLR output signals." So increasing the volume on the KP200s/KP100s DOES increase the signal going to the FOH PA. Not a good answer but a very good question. Just as a note: I used to own a pair of the powered EON15's like yours but they were too bulky and cumbersome so I sold them and bought a pair of the EON10's instead for the very reasons you mentioned - lighter/smaller PA for gigs. They make great expansion speakers for my KP's - all you need are a pair of mic cables. Hmm... Interesting. So my setup for band gigs - using a mixer and 1 EON as a stage monitor for my keyboard rig - has great control over volume (I can adjust my stage volume - the sound coming out of the EON, without affecting the signal I send to the FOH) is only mono on stage but will sound great thru the FOH since I send a stereo signal. Whereas your setup of using the KP200S as a stage monitor will sound great to you AND to the FOH, but every time you adjust volume at the amp, it also affects the signal you send from your XLR outs to the FOH. Dang-nabit! I just can't have it all, now can I... !? ha ha - there's always a freakin' tradeoff somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mal Sellars Posted March 10, 2005 Members Share Posted March 10, 2005 Originally posted by GigMan . Whereas your setup of using the KP200S as a stage monitor will sound great to you AND to the FOH, but every time you adjust volume at the amp, it also affects the signal you send from your XLR outs to the FOH. No, that is not correct. On the KP200S the channel volume affects the signal sent to FOH, but the master volume only controls the volume of the amp, without affecting FOH. You can therefore use the master volume as your on stage monitorThe click input works the same way for on stage monitoring of other instruments Mal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted March 10, 2005 Author Members Share Posted March 10, 2005 Originally posted by Mal Sellars No, that is not correct. On the KP200S the channel volume affects the signal sent to FOH, but the master volume only controls the volume of the amp, without affecting FOH. You can therefore use the master volume as your on stage monitorThe click input works the same way for on stage monitoring of other instrumentsMal But does the "channel" volume affect the amp volume AND the signal sent out the XLR's? But as long as Master Volume ONLY affects the amp's overall volume + doesn't affect what is sent out the XLR's, that's cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mal Sellars Posted March 10, 2005 Members Share Posted March 10, 2005 The channel volume effects both KP200S and FOH volume. The master does not affect what goes to FOH via XLR. I use the master volume as my monitor on all my gigs, and it works great.The KP200S IMO is the ultimate keyboard amp....a bit heavy is my onbly gripe :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Pro Posted March 10, 2005 Members Share Posted March 10, 2005 Hmmm - good info. Sorry if my post wasn't completely accurate but the skimpy KP manual wasn't specific about how the master volume control doesn't affect the XLR volume, and the way I use my KP-200s' direct outputs (with EONs mostly) I knew that the EQ and expander effects ARE passed onto the FOH mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mal Sellars Posted March 10, 2005 Members Share Posted March 10, 2005 Glad I could hand back some advise/help to this excellent forum It was through here that I heard about the KP200S. They are not in any of our shops here in Australia. Mal:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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