Members pink floyd cramer Posted May 25, 2005 Members Share Posted May 25, 2005 My Aunt gave me a Hammond L122 and I am having a blast, putting it on full organ preset with all the vibrato (physically modeled after Edith in "All in the Family"?) and reverb tabs on so i can pump the pedals and play demented calliope music. I enjoy working the bass pedals but I don't really know what I'm doing, for example I have to look at my foot to hit the right notes. I know the hammond spinet pedalboard is a joke (one octave) but it still sounds cool and it may bring me closer to my REAL-TIME one-man band idea. So, any advice on pedal technique would be welcome and appreciated. Thanks in advance as you guys have never let me down . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sheepshears Posted May 25, 2005 Members Share Posted May 25, 2005 teach your feet the same way you taught your hands..... practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miket156 Posted May 25, 2005 Members Share Posted May 25, 2005 If you know a tune with both hands, drop out your right hand part and just play the pedals with your left hand chords until you have it cold, then add your right hand parts. If you're using the drum machine with it, it can keep time for you, which makes it easier. Also, slow the tempo down when you're practicing all three parts together, at least initially. You can't run before you walk. Stick with it, it's doable. One can learn to play with both feet and both hands and with practice, sound great at doing it. Then try singing lead vocals on top of that, now there's a challenge, Mike T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Meatball Fulton Posted May 25, 2005 Members Share Posted May 25, 2005 Take your shoes off (seriously) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dan88z Posted May 25, 2005 Members Share Posted May 25, 2005 I played a spinet for years as a kid. I was taught to set yourself up so your left foot was directly over the G pedal when it was hanging straight down. Then it's a matter of muscle memory to learn the distances between the pedals. You can't really use true pedal "heel/toe" technique on the smaller pedals. Just keep practicing, its just like teaching your hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Big Fish Posted May 25, 2005 Members Share Posted May 25, 2005 Find a gospel organist! Sit down with him and learn! Gospel B3 guys are about the best guys you can learn pedal playing/technique from. I was actually with one yesterday and I sat there amazed! They just have it down man! Take my foolish advice, you will learn a lot. They can be found at your local baptist, apostolic, or COGIC churches. (Church of God in Christ) to name a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fear My Potato Posted May 25, 2005 Members Share Posted May 25, 2005 Originally posted by Meatball Fulton Take your shoes off (seriously) Actually, you should have shoes with medium thick soles that aren't rubber, a normal cut in front of heels, and moderately thick heels (rubber or leather). If the sole is too thin, your feet do extra work and tire too easily. If the sole is rubber you can lose a lot of "sliding, dexterity, and speed" as my teacher would've said. Rubber heels mean it'll stick better and let you pivot easier, but I think non-rubber is more maneuverable. That's the standard in the organ community for footwear. Makes working the pedals a hell of a lot easier, especially if it's not perfectly flat from heel to toe. You play organ pedals (maybe not spinet pedals, but someday you might be able to do it right on a bigger version ) with your heels and your toes, alternating between the two to offer added dynamics to your pedalwork. This alternation is also the only way to get any legato on the pedals when you have more than one note to play down there. I know I'm the last person most people would expect to be preaching the hardline old school methods of doing things, but although you can play without shoes, it's really best not to. There's a reason the technique and such over the past hundreds of years of organ history has developed the way it has...people noticed {censored} while playing everyday. And what we have is the result of all those people's combined experiences...don't toss thousands of peoples' combined experiences over hundreds of years out with the window because it feels easier to play shoeless early on; if you ever move on to anything more complex you're not going to be able to keep up. Although, it is a spinet, so if the shoes don't fit...they just don't fit and have to come off You basically have to get fluent playing down there without looking, so practice scales and basslines you like (maybe jazz basslines, they tend to be more complex) without looking at your feet. Oh, in order to play with your feet the bench absolutely must be at a proper height. You should sit with the bone of your ass a few inches in from the front edge of the bench (so that you're adequately balanced without help from hands or feet, but not so firmly planted so you can't turn or pivot) with feet straight in front of you, and the tops of your thighs shouldn't touch the underside of the organ (below the manuals). There should be clearance there to move your legs up and down for pedals. On many organs, being seated properly for pedalwork means not being able to touch the floor with your feet. Don't get freaked out. I can't really give you more advanced tips on pedalwork though since it's a spinet There are four methods I've heard of for knowing your way around down there, but I went on the "kinesthetic sensation method" which is basically muscle memory. Practice where you move your foot and leg to for notes so much that you don't think...it just goes. So I guess feel it out without looking and have fun, don't get overwhelmed initially. Definately don't give it up, it is so worth it to bust out organ basslines live when others can't...take your chops to the next level EDIT: that's the big picture of organ pedal technique, if you can't do all of it, do what you can, that way if you ever do get a console organ you won't have to go back and correct years of sloppy technique. I just thought it would be nice to give you a direction of where pedal playing eventually goes so that you kinda know what to expect or something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pink floyd cramer Posted May 25, 2005 Author Members Share Posted May 25, 2005 Originally posted by dan88z I played a spinet for years as a kid. I was taught to set yourself up so your left foot was directly over the G pedal when it was hanging straight down. Then it's a matter of muscle memory to learn the distances between the pedals. You can't really use true pedal "heel/toe" technique on the smaller pedals. Just keep practicing, its just like teaching your hands. Thanks Dan and everybody. I am going for the muscle memory approach but it helps to use the "G" pedal as a reference, seems to be easier than memorizing 4th/5th etc intervals on their own. I can play pedals while sustaining a chord on the lower manual and soloing on the upper, which sounds cool, but it is trickier to actually comp with my left hand. Can a 40-something man sprout a 3rd brain? Musically it is a challenge to play a bassline that is out of necessity sparse and bare-bones simple, but still funky. I am aware that B3 players often play left-hand bass and use the pedals for the main accents but with a spinet that is not an option anyway. keep it coming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fear My Potato Posted May 25, 2005 Members Share Posted May 25, 2005 Originally posted by pink floyd cramer Can a 40-something man sprout a 3rd brain? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Real MC Posted May 25, 2005 Members Share Posted May 25, 2005 It takes practice, practice, practice. Took me a few years to learn to play my Taurus pedals blind, and I'm still practicing. I've seen Joey DeFrancesco and Tony Monaco at NAMM playing the XK System at the Hammond booth, and their feet play walking bass lines! Watching them was an education!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members suitandtieguy Posted May 25, 2005 Members Share Posted May 25, 2005 Originally posted by The Real MC I've seen Joey DeFrancesco and Tony Monaco at NAMM playing the XK System at the Hammond booth, and their feet play walking bass lines! Watching them was an education!!! i just saw joey last week. he actually dropped _fewer_ bass bombs than ever. he used to do alot of Groove Holmes-inspired pedal walking on blues tunes (tension building) but i just saw him thump. it was interesting to watch him switch the thump technique (heel sometimes, toe sometimes, whole foot sometimes ... i almost always thump with my toe on the A). he did play pedals on the ballad he did, but even on the ballad he barely did any of the LH melody stuff i enjoy so much. THESE are the shoes to wear: http://www.organmastershoes.com playing in sock feet is a _very_ bad idea. it is stressful on the bones and you will find many pedal techniques impossible without shoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tucktronix Posted May 25, 2005 Members Share Posted May 25, 2005 Originally posted by Miket156 If you know a tune with both hands, drop out your right hand part and just play the pedals with your left hand chords until you have it cold, then add your right hand parts.Mike T. +1 That's exactly the way I trained myself to play left hand bass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tucktronix Posted May 25, 2005 Members Share Posted May 25, 2005 Originally posted by suitandtieguy i just saw joey last week. he actually dropped _fewer_ bass bombs than ever. he used to do alot of Groove Holmes-inspired pedal walking on blues tunes (tension building) but i just saw him thump. it was interesting to watch him switch the thump technique (heel sometimes, toe sometimes, whole foot sometimes ... i almost always thump with my toe on the A).he did play pedals on the ballad he did, but even on the ballad he barely did any of the LH melody stuff i enjoy so much. Yeah, I saw him last yr. In the middle of "All About My Girl", he placed both his feel up on the bench and began playing left hand bass. During the switch, he never missed ONE note! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miket156 Posted May 25, 2005 Members Share Posted May 25, 2005 I found it a bit more difficult to play pedals with when I bought my Taurus pedals to play along with my Yamaha Electric Grand, after I had moved from playing organ live, to playing piano live. The reason? The pedals are smaller and shorter, and you only have one octave. Playing the long wooden pedals on a B3 with two oataves was easier, but of course, playing JS Bach wasn't. Mike T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miket156 Posted May 26, 2005 Members Share Posted May 26, 2005 The only trouble with taking your shoes off is....what will you do when you play live? You will get use to playing pedals without shoes, and playing in public without shoes went out with the Woodstock generation. Its best to find a fairly narrow pair of dress shoes (narrow so you don't accidently touch more than one pedal at a time) Don't use shoes with leather soles, they slip. Mike T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members misterdregs Posted May 26, 2005 Members Share Posted May 26, 2005 Originally posted by Fear My Potato ...that's the big picture of organ pedal technique, if you can't do all of it, do what you can, that way if you ever do get a console organ you won't have to go back and correct years of sloppy technique. I just thought it would be nice to give you a direction of where pedal playing eventually goes so that you kinda know what to expect or something... That is excellent advice for so many things. I'm no great golfer, but when anyone asks me about taking up the game, I always tell them to take a couple of lessons before going out on the course or even going to the range. A few lessons with a pro to get the basics down as far as grip, stance, etc will save you many hours of frustration and work correcting the bad habits you will inevitably develop left to your own devices. Damn, this makes me want to learn to play pedals to go with my Nord Electro! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members suitandtieguy Posted May 26, 2005 Members Share Posted May 26, 2005 Originally posted by jdwinger there are guys like thesehttp://www.organmastershoes.com/ echo yeah ... leather soles are _perfect_ for playing Hammond pedals. i disagree with MikeT on this. i have found that rubber soles do not allow the "feel" of the pedals to come through to the ball of the foot. also, being able to slide from pedal to pedal is fairly important in good pedal technique, something which is impossible with rubber soled shoes unless they are thouroghly worn-out. being able to feel the pedals is as important as memorising their position, because you always sit at the bench slightly differently every time you play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fear My Potato Posted May 26, 2005 Members Share Posted May 26, 2005 ...I agree, but a lot of people go with rubber because it keeps your feet from getting tired on the advanced, fast paced footpedal parts. I agree because I can't play enough of the advanced stuff to care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeebus Posted May 27, 2005 Members Share Posted May 27, 2005 GODDY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fear My Potato Posted May 27, 2005 Members Share Posted May 27, 2005 Oh {censored} that came outta NOWHERE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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