Members louvega Posted October 6, 2005 Members Share Posted October 6, 2005 Just noticed a big drop in the Neuron VS price, and after checking the Hartmann forums it seems there hasnt been any sign of life in the company for months. There are still some bugs to be worked on and stability problems on the VS, but there hasnt been any OS updates or news for long, long time. I was thinking in getting the Neuron VS, but I'm afraid Hartmann Music is done. I feel bad for the people who paid the Neuron Kb in full, only to be forgotten. There are some big concerns on what will they do when the harddrives start failing, as well as other hardware problems. Modern synths suck when the only people able to repair them go out of business. Another one bites the dust... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mook Posted October 6, 2005 Members Share Posted October 6, 2005 Wouldn't surprise me. I've seen the keyboards going for less than an A6 or Ti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Trillian Posted October 6, 2005 Members Share Posted October 6, 2005 Well, there is a news item on there from today actually, so someone is still there keeping the lights on http://www.hartmann-music.com/home/us/news/ I would still like to have a Neuron keyboard myself. I have not seen them that cheap over here, they are still about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lasselu Posted October 6, 2005 Members Share Posted October 6, 2005 Here's the story: Musicstore have bought directly from the factory without Hartmanns knowledge and at least two other stores have lowered their prices when they saw what Musicstore was doing.Hartmann says that anyone buying from Musicstore will be without support and uppgrades. Musicstore says that they take full responsibility for warranty at least...The other stores (Thomann is one of them) won't be able to deliver at the lower price...which is a bummer since I ordered one from them...I've mailed them about it but haven't got any answer back yet... I guess we haven't seen the full fallout from all this yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mook Posted October 6, 2005 Members Share Posted October 6, 2005 I wouldn't buy it even at that price, bearing you have to factor in the price of a dedicated PC just to run it! Yeah okay, a bit over the top, but it is a bit of a CPU hog... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members droolmaster0 Posted October 6, 2005 Members Share Posted October 6, 2005 Originally posted by Mook I wouldn't buy it even at that price, bearing you have to factor in the price of a dedicated PC just to run it!Yeah okay, a bit over the top, but it is a bit of a CPU hog... I bought one at the original price, and have had NO problems with it, other than the known issues (most notably that patches are not saved with the song - you have to save/load explicitly). Not sorry I made the purchase. imo the sound quality is FAR superior to the vsynth, and its ability to mangle samples and morph between timbres smoothly is amazing. Yes - it does require lots of cpu, but on my 3.06 it is fine for my purposes. I do not need to dedicate the machine to the Neuron. When I eventually get a faster machine, I don't foresee any issues at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Artur Meinild Posted October 6, 2005 Members Share Posted October 6, 2005 The Hartmann site says these are bootlegs... How come?? Well, at least I hope Hartmann stays around to fix the last bugs, and maybe lower the Neuron VS price in the future... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lasselu Posted October 6, 2005 Members Share Posted October 6, 2005 Originally posted by Artur Meinild The Hartmann site says these are bootlegs... How come?? As I said, Musicstore bought directly from the factory without Hartmanns knowledge... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members louvega Posted October 6, 2005 Author Members Share Posted October 6, 2005 Whoa, strange story. Talked too soon I was thinking in buying one at reduced price, but the updates and warranty thing scares me. Is there any difference in sound / functionality between the VS and the keyboard Neuron? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mytee2.0 Posted October 6, 2005 Members Share Posted October 6, 2005 Originally posted by louvega Is there any difference in sound / functionality between the VS and the keyboard Neuron? yeah, one works and the other doesnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members droolmaster0 Posted October 6, 2005 Members Share Posted October 6, 2005 Originally posted by myteeGTi yeah, one works and the other doesnt. Can never quite understand why people post stuff as fact, in ignorance. The vs works. There are some issues. They are documented. Most compatibility issues are on the mac, and I think have been conflicts with the Logic key. I think that they have generally been resolved through hartmann support. There are issues with communication and updates from hartmann. People are pissed that neither has been forthcoming. This would suggest that if you want one of these, and buy one of these non-supported units, that you would get the same lack of support as everyone else ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members synthesized Posted October 6, 2005 Members Share Posted October 6, 2005 Originally posted by myteeGTi yeah, one works and the other doesnt. Well in that case... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members droolmaster0 Posted October 6, 2005 Members Share Posted October 6, 2005 Originally posted by louvega Whoa, strange story. Talked too soon I was thinking in buying one at reduced price, but the updates and warranty thing scares me. Is there any difference in sound / functionality between the VS and the keyboard Neuron? I've never tried the keyboard, but from what I understand, the profusion of knobs and sliders (?) permit much greater real time control. Most people say that the vs sounds exactly the same - I would imagine that it would depend on the quality of the soundcard. I have a good soundcard, and the sound quality is really amazing. There is also a feature currently missing from the vs implementation, which I assume is present on the keyboard - the ability to memorize the movements of the joystick, to be recreated on a keystroke. (you can record this as parameter automation however, subject to very high cpu usage. This aspect is not optimized on the vs. I get much better results using a hardware sequencer to quantize the automation). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members louvega Posted October 6, 2005 Author Members Share Posted October 6, 2005 Cool, thx for the answer droolmaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mytee2.0 Posted October 6, 2005 Members Share Posted October 6, 2005 Originally posted by droolmaster0 Can never quite understand why people post stuff as fact, in ignorance. Do be mad, EVERY review ive read said it was pretty much worthless and shouldnt have been released as it was. so no that reply wasnt based on ig'nance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members keanu reeves Posted October 6, 2005 Members Share Posted October 6, 2005 Originally posted by myteeGTi EVERY review ive read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members droolmaster0 Posted October 6, 2005 Members Share Posted October 6, 2005 Originally posted by myteeGTi Do be mad, EVERY review ive read said it was pretty much worthless and shouldnt have been released as it was.so no that reply wasnt based on ig'nance. Like for instance the sound on sound review? You never tried one - this seems like a tacit admission. Why state that it doesn't work. You really don't know, do you? It DOES work 99%. You read one or two reviews and that is the extent of your experience with the instrument. I'm not mad. I simply don't understand why people who have no experience with a product post about how it stinks. Do you go around and state that a movie sucks if you haven't seen it, but only have read the review? No - an honest comment would be something along the lines of, 'well, the reviews weren't very good'. In your case, you were somewhat selective in your choice of reviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members droolmaster0 Posted October 6, 2005 Members Share Posted October 6, 2005 Originally posted by flukewurm I have used the vs with about 5 different hosts on a budget pc, and I haven't had a single problem...wait - only one - there is a minor conflict with the samplitude dongle. Somtimes you have to restart Samplitude, which I hardly use anyway. I did my research and knew about every documented issue going in. It's a great synth. Don't buy it if you want a VA. No other synth sounds like it. The company sucks. I have not had a single crash with it. Not one. I have not tried it on a Mac with Logic, but to say simply, on the basis of a review or 2, that it didn't work is ridiculous. I had an email conversation with someone who wrote one of those reviews, and he cited a whole bunch of minor things - he pointed to about 3 presets that made no sound (out of hundreds) and another couple that used an inordinate amount of cpu. I came out of that exchange thinking that the guy was way biased. Ooooh - here's a really expensive product that I can trash... Another reviewer, Scott Solida is a really nice guy. I honestly don't know how he couldn't get it to work. I suspect he had a problematic version, or had some kind of conflict - who knows. but the issue again came down to Hartmann - apparently he tried to get help and they were not responsive. I do know that they replaced their tech support guy, so i believe that things are better now. The current support person is an active participant on the list and seems ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Umbra Posted October 6, 2005 Members Share Posted October 6, 2005 Hartmann says that anyone buying from Musicstore will be without support and uppgrades. Another reason not to buy Hartmann gear, they screw the users. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members droolmaster0 Posted October 6, 2005 Members Share Posted October 6, 2005 Originally posted by Umbra Another reason not to buy Hartmann gear, they screw the users. I don't like the company, but imagine for a moment that these copies are illegal. Apparently it is mandatory there that you can return merchandise within 2 weeks. So they are saying - these are illegal copies, and if you want support you must return them and buy legal copies. this seems consistent, actually, with what most companies would do. The curious thing to me is what this all might mean. Why would the factory be willing to unload their whole stock like this, and refer to Hartmann as the "former distributor"? There appears to be more to the story. The store is claiming that people WILL get support and that the copies are legal. But how would they get upgrades to people? Something is missing from the details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members louvega Posted October 6, 2005 Author Members Share Posted October 6, 2005 I think this is the email droolmaster refers to: excerpt from musicstore-mail: The items we have acquired are fully official and licenced. Thus, all hardware and software support is granted. You purchase a regular product with regular guarantees (3 years guarantee)at our house. At the moment, we are working to suffocate the confussion created by Hartmann (this product Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MartinHines Posted October 7, 2005 Members Share Posted October 7, 2005 Something is definitely "missing". Music Store Koln is listed in Hartmann's Germany "Dealer List": http://www.hartmann-music.com/home/us/distributors/#germany Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Umbra Posted October 7, 2005 Members Share Posted October 7, 2005 I don't like the company, but imagine for a moment that these copies are illegal. How are they illegal? If your buying the packaged product from a real retailer, especially one that is listed as an official dealer, that sounds pretty legal to me. If hartman can't controller the supplier/distributor how is that the customers issue? Like I said, poor customer support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BOBA JFET Posted October 7, 2005 Members Share Posted October 7, 2005 Originally posted by Umbra How are they illegal? If your buying the packaged product from a real retailer, especially one that is listed as an official dealer, that sounds pretty legal to me. If hartman can't controller the supplier/distributor how is that the customers issue?Like I said, poor customer support. By your analogy, Guitar Center could hijack a truck full of strats and legally sell them, since GC is a licensed Fender retailer. The point is that Musicstore may have violated their contract in a big way by making some kind of shady purchase direct from the manufacturer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members c3400 Posted October 7, 2005 Members Share Posted October 7, 2005 i am a neuron VS owner myself and cannot vouch either way for hartman, however i can say that the product they created is phenominal, NOTHING sounds like it, it can be recreated but not until after YEARS of reverse enginering.CPU killer, to me not at all, i had 8 running with recorded knob movment(which effects the cpu rate more so then you would think) without a hitch(while running at 24/96), it has not crashed on me once yet. comparitivly reaktor5 on my CPU has crashed both the host program as well as my computer, and has peaked out my CPU with only one instance of loading up some stuff in the groovebox category.. it appears as if the problem with 'music store' has to do with a breach of contractand yes breaching a contract does have dire reprecussions.if you dont think that it should, then maybe you shouldnt ever have a contract with any label or any other person you may write music with, the label can sell your cd for a penny for 10 dollars, and give you .1% of your 5% deal. and the person you write music with will be able to give you a dollar out of your 50/50 deal from a mill$ contract. contracts are important, and if i was the store, i would pull all of the orders that hadnt shipped and work out an arangment with hartman for the ones that had. that would be the proper insertion of foot to mouth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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