Recording hardware synths into a PC/DAW

[wheresgrant3]

I have a decent DAW setup. A 2.8Ghz P-4, 2 240 GB SATA drives, 1GB of RAM an Audiophile 24/96 card. On my PC I have running, Sonar 4, Garritan GPO, Atmospheres, Absynth 1, and Kompakt. In between my soundcard and my hardware synths I also have a Yamaha MG10/2 which I use to mix my Triton LE, Yamaha EX7 Alesis Micron and Roland XP30. I also use it for monitoring (because I have latency with Sonar 4). I consistently feel challenged getting decent sound levels while recording my hardware synths. For one, it's hard to match up what I am monitoring on my mixer and what I am captuiring on my soundcard. I know I could probably find a better mixer.... the Yammie seems to have a faint hint of noise in the background. recording analog to digital also has the problem of "what you hear is what you get" some synths seem to cut through the mix just like a live performance.

 

Is it better if I download the instrument definition files for all of my synths and just record in midi? Is that possible? How do most people record synths... using midi or line out? I really could use a good push in the right direction. I am proficent enough with a PC to get around but I'm really a stoob when it comes to recording and midi.

[Rauzi]

Just make sure the gain levels are at 0dB for the synthesizers, right?

[Mook]

Through elimination, check whether is a synth>mixer or mixer>soundcard connection that is causing the noise.

 

You want to check the levels throughout so that the output of each device is set as high as possible, thus raising the noise floor as much as possible (but avoiding disortion, particularly into the soundcard). You can adjust the input sensitivity in the Delta control panel to match the connection to the mixer.

 

Also consider using balanced cables if possible between any devices (although FWIR the Delta soundcards don't have balanced inputs).

 

You need to think about how you're going to record everything to audio in the PC. I record each synth line separately to individual tracks. To do this with your setup you would need solo the track you wish to play as you record so that synth is the only one being recorded by the PC. A better way if your mixer has a pair of aux sends is to use this as the connection to the soundcard, as only the synths that are sent to the aux bus are recorded by the PC, and also allow you to monitor your other synths at the same time.

 

I take it from your question regarding MIDI that you are playing the synths live. If you're happy with your playing ability then carry on playing live without the midi. Recording the midi won't affect the sound quality. You can record the midi if you wish to edit the playing performance afterwards, or quantize the playing, or add controller data to it.

 

Once the sounds are recorded into the PC as audio tracks, the quickest way to start getting them to sit in the mix is to low-shelf EQ (high-pass) everything other than bass. You also want to 'normalize' the audio tracks and use compression if necessary.

 

If you've got alot going on, then a number of stereo sound sources can start taking over the mix, so you might want to play with the panning. I use Cubase here and use the various panning tools to adjust the stereo width of tracks (often summing down to mono), and even sitting things a couple of degrees either side of dead centre can make a big difference to the detail that can be heard.

 

Then there's effects etc, but I think you realise that your first step is getting the sounds into the PC first, and with reasonable quality!

[Khazul]

One other thing than can be a killer with a mixer plumbed into computers and that is a lazy tendency to leave the levels up on all channels, not just the one you are recording. Doing so just adds loads more noise.

 

If your mixer has a dedicated rec bus, then use that, else maybe you can hijack a send pair for use as a rec bus (as Mook suggests), but most smaller mixers have limited number of send and miserable send pairing capability. I think the newer digital mixer + audio interface devices tend to have this capability (the Yamaha 01x that I use does, which is one of the reasons I think its a perfect device for smaller home/project studios).

 

 

Personally, I tend to initially record MIDI and audio together to their own tracks, then as when I need to tweak, just re-record the audio from the tweaked midi.

 

Having all the audio parts on separate tracks allows you to apply individual treatments to each part (eq, compressions, fx etc).

 

With drums Ill go one further and usually split the drum part into several midi parts and record each drum solo'd to its own track (usually a mono track) - same reason - so I can apply specific treatments to each drum sound.

[grumphh]

My personal way of doing things is to make sure that the signal out from the mixer is as hot as possible without distorting in the mixer. (Basically an occasional red LED or two (out of four) wont hurt - but only for peaks, and probably only good if you have an analog mixer)

For some reason that level seems to be the perfect level for recording into my shoddy Audigy soundcard, at least i get a nice signal that stays just below clipping.

 

I monitor everything through my soundcard (primitive, yeah), so i just have to live with the fact that when i record, the previously recorded tracks will not sound as loud as the instrument i record, but that can be turned down later on to fit in the mix.

As long as i can hear the drums while recording i am usually content

[Umbra]

 

Is it better if I download the instrument definition files for all of my synths and just record in midi? Is that possible? How do most people record synths... using midi or line out? I really could use a good push in the right direction. I am proficent enough with a PC to get around but I'm really a stoob when it comes to recording and midi.

 

 

Instrument definitions have nothing to do with audio, they just let you select patches by name instead of number. Midi is not audio. Most flexable way is to record a midi track and when that is right and the mistakes are taken care of then record the resulting audio. Depending on your DAW and it's features you may then have to move the audio a small amount to get the timing in sync better, midi clock only goes so far.

 

If you want the best signal you need to record directly into your sound card. Monitoring through your daw works best. You should be able to get down to around 2-10ms of latency without an issue if your PC is setup correctly. If you can't get that low you have something messed up.

 

If you don't want noise them dump the mixer, use short cables that are in decent shape, and use balanced cables where it makes sense like between your sound card and your monitors. Have your sound cards output set to the max and use something like a C-control to control volume to your monitors. Record as closed to 0 as possible.

 

 

One other thing than can be a killer with a mixer plumbed into computers and that is a lazy tendency to leave the levels up on all channels, not just the one you are recording. Doing so just adds loads more noise.

That is only true if you have a crappy soundcard like a soundblaster or audigy, especially if you have the mic input up and have the +20db boost going.

 

Only record in stereo when you must such as a patch with a stereo effect, otherwise ALWAYS use mono.