Members InfoSal Posted February 11, 2006 Members Share Posted February 11, 2006 The dictionary describes elctronica as "dance music featuring extensive use of synthesizers, electronic percussion, and samples of recorded music or sound." Putting the synths and rhythm aside, I would like to ask what you think what are are the typical harmonic characteristics of Electronica?Below are some questions that come to my mind. What sort of chord progressions or changes are common?Is it harmonicly minimal (very few or slight chord changes)? Is it modal harmony?Does electronica more often use major scale harmony or minor scale harmony? Then which minor scale is most often used?Natural minor D E F G A Bb CHarmonic Minor D E F G A Bb C#Dorian Minor D E F G A B CMelodic Minor D E F G A B C#Pentatonic Minor D F G A CBlues Scale D F G G# A C What sort of harmonizing of notes or chord colors are popular?3rds4ths5ths6ths7ths9ths (b9 or #9)11ths (#11)13ths (b13) Triads (3 note chords built from 3rds)7th chords4th Chords How much counterpoint is used in Electronica?More parallel motion or contrary motion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Amos Posted February 11, 2006 Members Share Posted February 11, 2006 "electronica" is an artificial category consisting of music which is wholly or largely created with electronic sound sources. As such, it encompasses many many sub-genres which are usually grouped together by similarities in one or more of the categories you mention, resulting in a common "feel" to compositions within a genre. Your questions are very interesting, but I think you will only get meaningful answers if you apply such analysis to one or more smaller subsets of electronic music, arranged by genre or even within the genre by time period. One hallmark of modern electronic music is that many of its subgenres are based around one or more novel elements, either of composition or technological possibility, which once introduced spawn a host of derivative or imitative works. The whole process leads to a rapid compartmentalization which can make it difficult to make accurate generalizations. I have somewhere a semi-scientific analysis of psychedelic trance music along the very lines you suggest. PM me if you are interested in reading this (although I will have to look for it and scan the article, so if you have a deadline soon it will be of no use). I hope this is helpful to you. -Amos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members InfoSal Posted February 11, 2006 Author Members Share Posted February 11, 2006 Thank you Amos. I would love to read your artivcle (I have no dealines). I had no idea there were so many "genres" now of electronica! Wikipedia lists: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_electronic_music_genresEach caategory has a link to a brief description of the sub-genre. "Contemporary electronic music includes many different styles or musical genres, such as: Ambient: Ambient dub Ambient Goa Ambient house Berlin School Chillout Dark ambient Dronology Illbient Lowercase New Age Psybient Breakbeat/Breaks: Baltimore breaks Big beat Breakcore Brokenbeat Cut & paste Florida breaks Grime Nu skool breaks Progressive breaks Raggacore Downtempo/IDM: Acid jazz Balearic Beat Bitpop Chiptune Minimal Electronica/Glitch Nu jazz Trip Hop (aka The Bristol Sound) Turntablism Electro:Electro bass Electroclash Electropop Italo disco Miami bass Synthpop Hardcore: 4-beat Bouncy techno Breakbeat hardcore Digital hardcore Gabba Happy hardcore New beat Nu style gabber Speedcore Terrorcore House: 2Step Acid house Chicago house Deep house Disco Eurodance French house Freestyle house Funky house Garage Ghetto house Hard house Hi-NRG Hip house Italo house Minimal house/Microhouse Pumpin' house Progressive house/Tribal house Spacesynth Tech house Industrial: Aggrotech Electronic body music Futurepop Industrial techno Noise music Power noise Jungle/Drum and Bass: Clownstep Darkcore Darkstep Drill n bass Drumfunk Hardstep Jump-Up Liquid funk Neurofunk Ragga Techstep Techno: Acid techno Detroit techno/U.S. techno Electroclash Freetekno Ghettotech Minimal techno/Glitch techno Nortec Rave music Schranz U.K. techno/Euro techno Yorkshire Bleeps and Bass Trance: Acid trance Goa trance Nu-NRG Hard trance Hardcore trance Heavy-metal goa/Buttrock goa Minimalist trance Progressive trance Psychedelic trance Vocal trance Hardstyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members keanu reeves Posted February 11, 2006 Members Share Posted February 11, 2006 yeah. and even those subgenres are clearly definable against eachother. its an extrodinary range, really. easily as extraordinary as the range of musics made with traditional instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pix Posted February 11, 2006 Members Share Posted February 11, 2006 Amos is right, but I think that Ishkur's map is really nice. Maybe not the scientific approach but I think he nailed it pretty well. check it out! http://www.di.fm/edmguide/edmguide.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members keanu reeves Posted February 11, 2006 Members Share Posted February 11, 2006 Originally posted by pix I think that Ishkur's map is really nice. http://www.di.fm/edmguide/edmguide.html good call! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SirGarrote Posted February 11, 2006 Members Share Posted February 11, 2006 Originally posted by flukewurm yeah. and even those subgenres are clearly definable against eachother. its an extrodinary range, really. easily as extraordinary as the range of musics made with traditional instruments. idiot. -G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members keanu reeves Posted February 11, 2006 Members Share Posted February 11, 2006 borkborkbork Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SirGarrote Posted February 11, 2006 Members Share Posted February 11, 2006 Originally posted by flukewurm borkborkbork -G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SirGarrote Posted February 11, 2006 Members Share Posted February 11, 2006 Originally posted by Amos I think you will only get meaningful answers if you apply such analysis to one or more smaller subsets of electronic music, arranged by genre or even within the genre by time period. yeah dude. each subgenre has its own thing going on. for example, the harmonic vocabulary of jungle is wwwwwwaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy different than the harmonic vocabulary of deep house. etc, etc, etc -G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yoozer Posted February 11, 2006 Members Share Posted February 11, 2006 Originally posted by InfoSal Thank you Amos. I would love to read your artivcle (I have no dealines). I had no idea there were so many "genres" now of electronica! Wikipedia lists: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_electronic_music_genres Each caategory has a link to a brief description of the sub-genre. Why do you copy it to here if it's already in the article? No offense intended. I'm also intrigued by your question, because I think many producers would give you a blank stare if you started about harmonics (unless they were classically schooled). Just keep as a guideline that most (commercial) trance is ripped off from classical music, that's all you need. Also, seconding Ishkur's map - it's much more useful than the Wikipedia list, albeit that it's not NPOV . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Khazul Posted February 11, 2006 Members Share Posted February 11, 2006 A really bizarre question imho. Even taking a sub-sub-genre of say trance - choose from melodies borrowed from just about anything, classical, jazz, blues, gispy, folk, n00b-without-a-clue-music whatever. Many forms of electronica *ARE* mostly defined by the synths, fx and the rhythms etc - not by the harmonies - ie what you are trying to elliminate from the equation - take that away and even within say a sub genre of trance, even a well defined and fairly musical one - say Med or Ibiza trance which tends to feature alot of accoustic spanish guitar breaks - it depends what they are steeling the riffs from - spanish folk, spanish classical, or just something random that has nothign to do with spain played on a spanish guitar with a stack of synth noise and the usual trance variant beats to it... Most music we dance to has its root in tribal rhythms in the dim and distant past - much of that was just rhythm - nothing more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mook Posted February 11, 2006 Members Share Posted February 11, 2006 Indeed. Much 'electronica' is atonal, and even where harmonies are used, these do not necessarily follow classical rules using traditional scales. I think if you tried playing some 'electronica' on a traditional instrument such as a piano or guitar, I think it would be fair to say you'd only play one or two notes. Consider the Wikpedia list of genres. Much of that could be categorized as 'dance' music, for which the rhythm element is perhaps more important. BTW, what key is the Zipper Track in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mytee2.0 Posted February 12, 2006 Members Share Posted February 12, 2006 Originally posted by pix Amos is right, but I think that Ishkur's map is really nice. Maybe not the scientific approach but I think he nailed it pretty well. check it out!http://www.di.fm/edmguide/edmguide.html that guy, has WAAAAAAY to much time on his hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flat earth Posted February 12, 2006 Members Share Posted February 12, 2006 Originally posted by Mook Indeed. Much 'electronica' is atonal, and even where harmonies are used, these do not necessarily follow classical rules using traditional scales. I think if you tried playing some 'electronica' on a traditional instrument such as a piano or guitar, I think it would be fair to say you'd only play one or two notes. Consider the Wikpedia list of genres. Much of that could be categorized as 'dance' music, for which the rhythm element is perhaps more important. BTW, what key is the Zipper Track in? +1 thats more or less how i see it. Orchestrated 'versions' of electronic music always tend to sound a tad uncomfortable to my ears. InfoSal's list of genres is quite amazing. Id never heard of many of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lancaster Posted February 12, 2006 Members Share Posted February 12, 2006 Originally posted by myteeGTi that guy, has WAAAAAAY to much time on his hand. He put it to pretty good use though. That's a great site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DrJustice Posted February 12, 2006 Members Share Posted February 12, 2006 I'm impressed by these extensive categorizations. I mean, it's quite a feat for a single person to have a absolute firm grip on the hundreds different 'electronica' sub genres . It also seems that the different categorizers have different takes on it. Sometimes it appears as if it's ok to claim a new genre for anything as the artist or audience pleases, making it impossible to categorize stuff on firm grounds. Not that I mind, having been in on more than one sub genre of cybertrashtechsynthpunkscapes... DJ -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John B NYC Posted February 12, 2006 Members Share Posted February 12, 2006 When i make house music I normal stick with Major scales and melodic minor sclaes. I often incorporate key changes as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fear My Potato Posted February 12, 2006 Members Share Posted February 12, 2006 Originally posted by myteeGTi that guy, has WAAAAAAY to much time on his hand. After just clicking around there I remembered why I have less respect for EM...any idiot in a basement is prone to starting yet another "sub sub sub sub sub sub genre"... ...imagine if there was post-numetal grunge/jam jazz rock experimental hard rock/hair metal fusion? Jesus I'm glad rock and roll still has some concept of "hey this is a just a band with it's own sound" not, hey lets call it a genre! Not to {censored} on electronic musicians, just the whole culture around it that seems hell-bent on giving names to everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SirGarrote Posted February 12, 2006 Members Share Posted February 12, 2006 Originally posted by Mook Indeed. Much 'electronica' is atonal, and even where harmonies are used, these do not necessarily follow classical rules using traditional scales. I think if you tried playing some 'electronica' on a traditional instrument such as a piano or guitar, I think it would be fair to say you'd only play one or two notes. if your'e talking about electronic music as in any electronic music outside of academia, then i'll have to disagree with your statement. most dance music out there is completely tonal. and in your response to "only using one or two notes", even though there may only be a few notes, those notes are definitely serving the common harmonic functions found in tonal music. just use this as an example: crazy techno song that has a C bumping away in the bass. then you get some synth line that's a prolonged Ab....then G.....Ab.....then G. very common. It's only 3 notes, but they serve very important functions. The C is the tonic of course. The Ab is 6 in the Cminor scale, and it falls to G, the 5. This falling from Le to Sol is sometimes referred to as the "leading tone" motion of the minor scale...because it wants to resolve downwards as much as Ti wants to resolve upwards to Do in the major scale. Hugo Riemann was the father of this thought. so there you have just 3 notes....but all sorts of harmonic function in a very tonal sense. -G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DrJustice Posted February 12, 2006 Members Share Posted February 12, 2006 Hey FMP, cheer up don't blame it on the music (I assume by EM you mean electro-music...) There is lots of good EM out there, but the folks behind it aren't the ones claiming a new sub genre for every song they make. Also remember, Ishkur's genre map is actually just a joke. Something that really is sad though is that BS list in the wikipedia. Disco a sub genre of House, Berlin School a sub genre of Ambient? WTF, is the wiki on a slide...? DJ Edit: typo -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fear My Potato Posted February 12, 2006 Members Share Posted February 12, 2006 Yes I almost died of laughter when I saw "Funk" had origins in EM I guess "soul" never happened because James Brown didn't have a minimoog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Khazul Posted February 13, 2006 Members Share Posted February 13, 2006 Originally posted by Fear My Potato Not to {censored} on electronic musicians, just the whole culture around it that seems hell-bent on giving names to everything. Thats marketting fukwits for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Khazul Posted February 13, 2006 Members Share Posted February 13, 2006 Originally posted by SirGarrote if your'e talking about electronic music as in any electronic music outside of academia, then i'll have to disagree with your statement. most dance music out there is completely tonal. and in your response to "only using one or two notes", even though there may only be a few notes, those notes are definitely serving the common harmonic functions found in tonal music. just use this as an example: crazy techno song that has a C bumping away in the bass. then you get some synth line that's a prolonged Ab....then G.....Ab.....then G. very common. It's only 3 notes, but they serve very important functions. The C is the tonic of course. The Ab is 6 in the Cminor scale, and it falls to G, the 5. This falling from Le to Sol is sometimes referred to as the "leading tone" motion of the minor scale...because it wants to resolve downwards as much as Ti wants to resolve upwards to Do in the major scale. Hugo Riemann was the father of this thought. so there you have just 3 notes....but all sorts of harmonic function in a very tonal sense. -G How very true - sadly that the problem with alot of electronica, particular original trance and techno. I use the term original becase there are some wonderful trance tracks, but usually only because they are taken from what was a great compoistion in the first place - for eg William Orbit - "Adagio" which is a hack of Samuel Barber's Adagio for strings - possibly one of the most moving peaces of music I have ever heard - That was a *real* trance composition in its own right long before trance existed IMHO in terms of what its does for people. And yes - Im a trance head/producer - but it doesnt stop me from appreciating the occasional rarity when once in a million you find a trance track created by a real musician with some real musical and compositional training behind him/her that is allmost orchestral in quality because of wonderful rich progressions and chord voicings used for pads, arps etc or actually apply some orchestral arrangement principles to the different sounds. Sadly I dont have such training, but at least I can appreciate it when I hear it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CardioGram Posted February 13, 2006 Members Share Posted February 13, 2006 Originally posted by Khazul How very true - sadly that the problem with alot of electronica, particular original trance and techno. I use the term original becase there are some wonderful trance tracks, but usually only because they are taken from what was a great compoistion in the first place - for eg William Orbit - "Adagio" which is a hack of Samuel Barber's Adagio for strings - possibly one of the most moving peaces of music I have ever heard - That was a *real* trance composition in its own right long before trance existed IMHO in terms of what its does for people. And yes - Im a trance head/producer - but it doesnt stop me from appreciating the occasional rarity when once in a million you find a trance track created by a real musician with some real musical and compositional training behind him/her that is allmost orchestral in quality because of wonderful rich progressions and chord voicings used for pads, arps etc or actually apply some orchestral arrangement principles to the different sounds. Sadly I dont have such training, but at least I can appreciate it when I hear it imho the real innovation in electronic music is the fact that we can experiment with different sonic languages other than the traditional western pitch-based harmony and melody. That is the strength of all this crazy gear at our command. That is kind of the point of Techno. If one values traditional harmony and melody so much, why bother to do techno or trance? 'Switched-on Bach' had its day a while ago, people... Of course, 90% of anything is crap, and plenty of EM producers don't convey anything worthwhile in dimensions of harmony, timbre, rhythm nor anything else . Also, most dance music does indeed incorporate elements of atonality. (Although if you require the _whole track_ be atonal, I agree that is rare.) Most of the percussive sounds, as well as sound effects, and pitched effects such as phasers etc, add harmonic content to the track that is important and yet doesn't fit into any standard tonality. For instance, right now I'm listening to a jungle track where the drums are variously re-pitched to make various interesting patterns. They are not pitched according to any standard scale as far as I can tell, but the pitch still plays an important role. I argue those drums are kind of an 'atonal' composition, at least in and of themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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