Members blindmuddy Posted November 24, 2002 Members Share Posted November 24, 2002 I'm looking to try something different. I'm Basically a shredder type metal gut who doesn't know much of anything about jazz. Any reccomendations on where to start???Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Notorious B U G Posted November 24, 2002 Members Share Posted November 24, 2002 I was a shredder as a teen in the 80's. Been living jazz gtr for the last 11yrs. My suggestion is to learn how to spell chords if you dont know how. Ex: Cmaj7 = C,E,G,B Db-7b5= Db,Fb,Abb,Cb Then be able to run arppegiated(sp) chord tones over any song(progression) in any position on the fretboard. Also, a great crossover album to jazz for shredders is Pat Metheny's Questions & answers. That album shreds the {censored} outta any "shred" album. Check it out & you'll see what I mean. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Terje Posted November 24, 2002 Members Share Posted November 24, 2002 Don't overlook rhythm guitar playing. In jazz it's an artform all by itself. Get Charlton Johnson's book Swing And Big Band Guitar, it teaches what is known as "Freddie Green chords" since Freddie Green who was with Count Basie's band used to play those chord shapes. It's a good foundation for jazz guitar rhythm playing and sounds a lot better for jazz than a lot of huge chords people stretch their fingers to death to be able to play. Learn how to solo over different progression mainly by listening to and copying other players. Start with Charlie Christian. It's not technically hard (until the day you realise that he was using only downstrokes) but it's very musical. This is also a great foundation for jazz guitar soloing. Learn some theory. It'll help you out, make things easier to understand. Lots of theory never beats a good ear, but some theory will make it easier for you to hear things as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratKat Posted November 24, 2002 Members Share Posted November 24, 2002 For Jazz? Lemme see here.... Well here are some important things any jazz player needs to do and know... 1- stare off at an angle to the audience for entire songs. 2- play only dissonant ending notes and smile at the audience like its supposed to sound like that! 3- never play at intermediate speeds. Only slow or blazing fast licks need apply for jazz. 4- if you make a mistake do it ten times and act like its intentional. 5- mumble to yourself as you look at the neck while playing. 6- dress in expensive clothes with class. but dont wear socks. 7- get a huge electric guitar and put cheap stickers on the back of it. 8- get stickers from various states at the local "Stuckeys" and put them al over your guitar and equipment cases so you look like youve toured the whoe country. 9- get a drummer who can play really really fast with thin sticks. Someone with epilepsy that you can cause seazures in with certain chords works well. and lastly! 10 -bum money from all your friends cuz everyone knows jazz kats are always broke.... (ducks) welllll, seriously? a good jazz player needs to be able to play both in and out of the normal box. That means a solid foundation of theory, chords, inversions, and sclaes. And im not just talking about major and min stuff... I mean ALLLLLL of it. Its easy enough to get out of a box. But trying to jump back "in" with smoothness while the box is running wild is an art. So if you love work, long sessions of practice, and can survive the poverty, then JAZZ is fer you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cassius Posted November 24, 2002 Members Share Posted November 24, 2002 Originally posted by StratKat For Jazz? Lemme see here.... Well here are some important things any jazz player needs to do and know... 1- stare off at an angle to the audience for entire songs. 2- play only dissonant ending notes and smile at the audience like its supposed to sound like that! 3- never play at intermediate speeds. Only slow or blazing fast licks need apply for jazz. 4- if you make a mistake do it ten times and act like its intentional. 5- mumble to yourself as you look at the neck while playing. 6- dress in expensive clothes with class. but dont wear socks. 7- get a huge electric guitar and put cheap stickers on the back of it. 8- get stickers from various states at the local "Stuckeys" and put them al over your guitar and equipment cases so you look like youve toured the whoe country. 9- get a drummer who can play really really fast with thin sticks. Someone with epilepsy that you can cause seazures in with certain chords works well. and lastly! 10 -bum money from all your friends cuz everyone knows jazz kats are always broke.... (ducks) welllll, seriously? a good jazz player needs to be able to play both in and out of the normal box. That means a solid foundation of theory, chords, inversions, and sclaes. And im not just talking about major and min stuff... I mean ALLLLLL of it. Its easy enough to get out of a box. But trying to jump back "in" with smoothness while the box is running wild is an art. So if you love work, long sessions of practice, and can survive the poverty, then JAZZ is fer you! ......Count me in then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members randomsphere Posted November 24, 2002 Members Share Posted November 24, 2002 Start of by LISTENING to as much jazz as you can... for guitar start with Wes Montgomery, Grant Green, Pat Martino (if youre a shred guy, youll love him!) Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jazz_Funk_42 Posted November 25, 2002 Members Share Posted November 25, 2002 Get a jazz fake book, like "The Real Book", and work on as many songs as you can. You have to learn the history, and that's a great place to start. Also, when you feel comfortable, try to sit in at a couple small gigs, that's the best thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PSA Posted November 25, 2002 Members Share Posted November 25, 2002 Well, I'm no jazz queen, but these seem like good ideas to me so I thought I'd share. Go to a record shop and buy some albums (at least 4 or 5 for variety). Generally if you buy those cheap ones they have sitting out you're in good shape - you know how they always have Kind of Blue stacked on a table somewhere with a $7.99 sticker on it... take them home and play them. make sure to concentrate on listening to them sometimes. then start singing along with the album once you know the songs. then learn the chords. that cheapass copy of kind of blue will come in handy for this because it's damn good work and the songs only have like 4 chords in them. or 2 if you're talking about so what... well, gotta go! hope this helps, sorry about the abrupt end... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thamiam Posted November 26, 2002 Members Share Posted November 26, 2002 Originally posted by randomsphere Start of by LISTENING to as much jazz as you can... for guitar start with Wes Montgomery, Grant Green, Pat Martino (if youre a shred guy, youll love him!) Al Exactly. Jazz rhythms are totally different from rock rhythms, and most of us have been conditioned from birth to hear and feel rock and pop rhythms. You need to reprogram your internal metronome. I just played around in jazz and basically sucked for a long time until I started listening to jazz exclusively, then everything else just sort of fell into place. Find a jazz radio station in your area (ha-ha a little jazz joke) or online and listen a lot. When you hear something you like, write down the artist and maybe the song. After a little while you might find the same names or songs repeating over and over on your list. Use that as a guide to buy some albums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sansunzeste Posted November 27, 2002 Members Share Posted November 27, 2002 Originally posted by thamiam Exactly. Jazz rhythms are totally different from rock rhythms, and most of us have been conditioned from birth to hear and feel rock and pop rhythms. You need to reprogram your internal metronome. I just played around in jazz and basically sucked for a long time until I started listening to jazz exclusively, then everything else just sort of fell into place. Find a jazz radio station in your area (ha-ha a little jazz joke) or online and listen a lot. When you hear something you like, write down the artist and maybe the song. After a little while you might find the same names or songs repeating over and over on your list. Use that as a guide to buy some albums. On the subject of jazz rhythms. Jazz is Rhythm. The whole style does not exist without rhythm. It is the most important element in jazz. Beyond the notes there is a whole knew language with the rhythm. As my jazz director says You could go into jazz club and play every single note wrong but have the rhythm so swinging so grooving so perfect. It would be absolutely awesome. All the cats in the club would love it. Without the rhythmic feel, If yah can't swing. You aren't playing jazz. Look at the history of jazz. Where'd it come from? It's roots are from the slaves brought over from africa. The tribal rhythmic expression of these people. African rhythm. What did they do to past the time? They made music. This music they made eventually evolved into jazz (over many decades) as it combined with western music and instrumentation. Now I am certainly no master of this. I'm far from, but first you've gotta recognize this goal and listen to learn. Jazz is learned through listening. It can't be taught ona page or in words. A score for a jazz song doesn't say half of what your supposed to play. It's a audio heritage passed from ear to ear. It's a lifetimes voyage to learn how to play great jazz. And it all starts with the rhythm and listening to it. Anyone feel free to mess with what I said if yah feel I got it wrong at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PSA Posted December 26, 2002 Members Share Posted December 26, 2002 Originally posted by sansunzeste The whole style does not exist without rhythm. Actually, no style exists without rhythm. sorry, I'm being a smartass, but it's true, none the less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 555 Posted December 29, 2002 Members Share Posted December 29, 2002 Originally posted by PSA Actually, no style exists without rhythm. sorry, I'm being a smartass, but it's true, none the less. Sorry. Punk/thrash/grunge. Straight eighth notes. NO RHYTHM. That's why they're dead ends. Excuse me while I look for my flame retardant suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SonicTonic Posted December 29, 2002 Members Share Posted December 29, 2002 Listen to as much jazz as you can, and when you do snap your fingers on the 2nd and 4th beat. This will help with swing and rhythm. A solid foundation in rhythm is a must. Snap your fingers like this and scat a melody, this will help with phrasing. I'd suggest getting a teacher since the amount of work that goes into studying jazz is daunting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PSA Posted December 30, 2002 Members Share Posted December 30, 2002 Originally posted by 555 Sorry. Punk/thrash/grunge. Straight eighth notes. NO RHYTHM. That's why they're dead ends. Excuse me while I look for my flame retardant suit. rhythm - 1. the quality of happening at regular periods of time. 2. a particular pattern of this kind. (usually "a rhythm" as opposed to rhythm in general). that's what the dictionary says. except for that bit in quotes... yes, well. music consists of harmony, rhythm, color, and something else I can't remember. otherwise it isn't music. or something like that. big fancy guys say things like that and I can never remember it. but the point is, 8th notes are rhythm. As for what SonicTonic said, daunting is right. and perhaps an understatement. I should get a teacher. no money, wrong language. so if you can't either, just pick somewhere and start. and then you'll realize 6 other things you need to work on. pick one and work on it. you just have to make sure you're doing something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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