Members johnnysixguns Posted December 18, 2002 Members Share Posted December 18, 2002 hey everyone i've seen quite a few posts on here where people have mentioned the whole-tone scale. i have the guitar grimoire complete scales and modes book (anyone have an opinion on this book?), and i looked up the whole-tone scale in it, and i've memorized the patterns for it, but can anyone elaborate on the theory behind this scale? or give me a website where i could read up on the theory behind it? whats it used for, such as styles? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Flanger Posted December 18, 2002 Members Share Posted December 18, 2002 It's a scale that's constructed completely of whole steps: C Whole Tone - C D E F# G# A# D Whole Tone - D E F# G# A# B# etc... Also, note that whole tone scales only have 6 notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fred5 Posted December 18, 2002 Members Share Posted December 18, 2002 hey everyone i've seen quite a few posts on here where people have mentioned the whole-tone scale. i have the guitar grimoire complete scales and modes book (anyone have an opinion on this book?), and i looked up the whole-tone scale in it, and i've memorized the patterns for it, but can anyone elaborate on the theory behind this scale? or give me a website where i could read up on the theory behind it? whats it used for, such as styles? Try it over augmented chords, like an augmented V chord in a blues progression. Or over the II chord in a more jazzy context - a II chord with a lowered fifth (minor7b5). It's used a lot in movie soundtracks. To me, it's kind of similar to the chromatic scale. It really breaks out from diatonic harmony. A lot of film scores sounds derivate of Debussy or Stravinskij. The only note that really "rests" is the tonic note, imo. Depends on harmonic situtation though. Guitarist Buckethead uses it when tapping and Kraftwerk features it prominently at least once. I think it's nice for getting a raising or falling sound. Try throwing it in between lines of a more traditional nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Terje Posted December 19, 2002 Members Share Posted December 19, 2002 You're supposed to be able to use it on altered chords too but I forgot how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dave Regio Posted December 19, 2002 Members Share Posted December 19, 2002 Originally posted by Terje You're supposed to be able to use it on altered chords too but I forgot how. A whole tone scale based on the root of the dominant chord should work for dominant chords containing the b5 or #5. The whole tone scale probably would not work as well if the chord or melody contains b9 or #9. Just a thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thamiam Posted December 19, 2002 Members Share Posted December 19, 2002 Interesting, and useful note on the whole tone scale. The wholetone scale has six notes. It is known as a symmetrical scale. There are only 2 wholetone scale. Observe: C D E F# G# A# C C# D# F G A B C# No matter where you start, if you construct a wholetone scale, it will always have the same notes as one of the two scales above. Also notice that the two scales do not share any notes in common. Take every other note from either scale, and build a triad, No matter where you start, in either scale, you will git an augmented triad. Root - Major 3rd - Sharp 5th. This means you only need to memorize two six note scales, and you will be able to play over any augmented chord you will ever come across. Pretty nifty, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dave Regio Posted December 19, 2002 Members Share Posted December 19, 2002 Originally posted by thamiam Interesting, and useful note on the whole tone scale. The wholetone scale has six notes. It is known as a symmetrical scale. There are only 2 wholetone scale. Observe: C D E F# G# A# C C# D# F G A B C# No matter where you start, if you construct a wholetone scale, it will always have the same notes as one of the two scales above. Also notice that the two scales do not share any notes in common. Take every other note from either scale, and build a triad, No matter where you start, in either scale, you will git an augmented triad. Root - Major 3rd - Sharp 5th. This means you only need to memorize two six note scales, and you will be able to play over any augmented chord you will ever come across. Pretty nifty, huh? Very well articulated observation. I've dabbled with the whole tone scale (and other altered scales for that matter) but I really haven't made it work very well.I hope that will change as a study through George Bouchard's Intermediate Jazz Improvisation (thanks to Terje talking about it all of the time ) and Jerry Coker's Patterns for Jazz.Of course, lots of practice goes all along with it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Terje Posted December 20, 2002 Members Share Posted December 20, 2002 Originally posted by Dave Regio I hope that will change as a study through George Bouchard's Intermediate Jazz Improvisation (thanks to Terje talking about it all of the time ) ... That man soon owes me money... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Terje Posted December 20, 2002 Members Share Posted December 20, 2002 Originally posted by Dave Regio A whole tone scale based on the root of the dominant chord should work for dominant chords containing the b5 or #5. The whole tone scale probably would not work as well if the chord or melody contains b9 or #9.Just a thought... Let's see. So a C7 alt. chord and we start a whole tone scale on C we get C D E Gb Ab Bb... yeah I guess you're right. So which one to choose then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lazaraga Posted December 20, 2002 Members Share Posted December 20, 2002 the whole tone scale is often used to "suspend" tonality. also, when you're watching a sitcom or something and they go into a dream sequence, they'll often play a whole tone scale. the intro to stevie's "you are the sunshine of my life" is a whole tone scale. also debussy and t. monk liked to use it peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dave Regio Posted December 20, 2002 Members Share Posted December 20, 2002 Originally posted by Terje Let's see. So a C7 alt. chord and we start a whole tone scale on C we get C D E Gb Ab Bb... yeah I guess you're right. So which one to choose then? Exactly. Even if you don't use the whole tone scale in its entirety, the second half of the altered scale (aka diminished wholetone) consists entirely of major second intervals. The altered pentatonic as shown in Bouchard's book also has the wholetone "feel" to it as well. Add a few color notes (i.e. the maj7) to really hit it home. I understand these scales in theory and a little practice but Bouchard is really opening things up for me that I think will reap major benefits down the road if I keep at it. I want a stronger comfort level with the first three chapters so between Bouchard and Patterns for Jazz, I'm trying to build a reasonable vocabulary using major, minor (dorian) and dominant ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Terje Posted December 20, 2002 Members Share Posted December 20, 2002 Originally posted by Dave Regio I want a stronger comfort level with the first three chapters so between Bouchard and Patterns for Jazz, I'm trying to build a reasonable vocabulary using major, minor (dorian) and dominant ideas. Sounds like a good idea. Maybe I should try that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dave Regio Posted December 20, 2002 Members Share Posted December 20, 2002 Originally posted by Terje Sounds like a good idea. Maybe I should try that. I think I'm walking a fine line sometimes. I don't want to overfocus and obsess on the major, minor and dominant patterns and neglect to push myself into more exploratory territory. I can't see why even spending a small amount of my practice time on a new idea can't hurt. From what I've read of your posts, you seem to be much farther along than myself (I do enjoy reading your posts and lessons). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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