Analyzing "Autumn Leaves"

[Jazz_Funk_42]

Cm7 - F9 - Bbmaj7 - Ebmaj7

Amin7b5 - D7#9 - Gmin7 - Gmin7

 

The key changes I see are Bbmaj for the first 4 chords, G harmonic minor for the next 2 chords, and G natraul minor for the last 2. That alone is a lot to work with, but I feel as though there's more going on that I should know about.

So, what kind of substitutions and passing tones would you guys be playing in these changes? Also, if I were throw a min6 out on that last change, what kind of scale territory am I in?

[thamiam]

 

Originally posted by Jazz_Funk_42 Cm7 - F9 - Bbmaj7 - Ebmaj7

 

 

ii-V-I-IV.

 

Yes you can use the I scale (Bbmaj7)through all these chords, but look out for some of the avoid note conflicts. Check out some of the threads on ii-V-I's for more complex ideas.

 

 

Originally posted by Jazz_Funk_42 Amin7b5 - D7#9 - Gmin7 - Gmin7

 

 

MINOR ii-V-i

Again, you can use the i chord for all of these chords (G natural minor), or check out the ii-V-I threads for ideas over minor ii-V-i's.

 

Autumn Leaves is such a popular chart to learn because it is an exercise in ii-V-I's as much as anything else. Learn the concepts behind those, and you can play the song no problem

 

Look at the whole tune, with the exception of the I-IV in the first phrase, every chord change is either a ii-V-I or a ii-V in a major or minor key.

[thamiam]

 

Originally posted by Jazz_Funk_42 Also, if I were throw a min6 out on that last change, what kind of scale territory am I in?

 

 

If you've been using the natural minor through the preceding bars, you are right where you belong, since the natural minor emphasises the minor 6th.

[evan_02]

I think of the first four chords as being Gmin (though Bb major has the same notes)

I don

[thamiam]

Good point, evan. As a matter of fact, you could take a G minor pentatonic, and wank to your hearts content over the entire progression above. Wouldn't sound particularly "jazz", but wouldn't sound bad.

 

Luv the sig...

[Jazz_Funk_42]

Thanks guys. I'll have to try out a couple of these ideas later when I have a guitar in my hands. That's funny, I never thought to wank the whole thing in Gmin pentatonic (lol).

I'm kicking myself because I didn't even see that the Gmin and Bbmaj keys are relatives to each other, that makes things a little easier on the brain.

[thamiam]

You can use dominant tritone substitutions to make the progression completely stepwise descending. It would sound boring and conrtrived chorus after chorus, but could make for a neat effect if used once with some nice arpeggiations.

 

Cm7 - B7alt - Bbmaj7 - A7alt - Amin7b5 - Ab7alt - Gmin7 - Gmin7

 

(BTW, I'm using the Jim Soloway definition of alt chords here, which is "add the color tones of your choice in the dominant tonality". If you were writing it out, you could specifically choose voicings that include only the #11th, or the b9th, or whatever.)

[Terje]

Some things that make it simpler. The song is G minor. And basically it alternates between a ii-V-I in Bb major and a ii-V-i in G minor. You can play the same phrases over both of these! If you have a nice ii-V-I lick that works in Bb major it'll work for the ii-V-i in G minor too.

 

But let's go pentatonic for awhile...

 

For the ii-V-I in Bb major you can use these scales: >Over Cm7 you play F major pentatonic, over F7 you play C altered pentatonic (C D Eb G A), and over Bb you play F major pentatonic. If you want an altered sound on the F7 chord you can play the Gb altered pentatonic scale (Gb Ab A Db Eb) here. See how simple that gets

 

For the ii-V-i in G minor it's a little more tricky. For the Am7b5 chord you can use the C altered pentatonic scale again. For D7 alt. you just use the Eb altered pentatonic. So you're moving up in minor 3rds here. For the Gm7 chord I'd stick to the G minor pentatonic.

 

There's a chromatic walk-down in bars 23 and 24 (I think at least, check that). Don't worry aout it, let the chords do the work, stay with the G mior pentatonic if you like.

 

But before you do any of this I'd suggest working a lot with the melody cause it's really beautiful.

[thelonius74]

Anyone ever notice that the refrain from 'Worse things I could do" from the Grease sountrack is Autumn Leaves EXACTLY!!!

 

Not that the progression is terribly uncommon..I use an augmented chord after the m7b5 chord.

[thamiam]

No thelonious, I never did notice that. And even if I did, I would NEVER admit to listening to the Grease soundtrack under any circumstances.

[r0g3r]

I'm not from a jazz background, so my choices might not fit traditional jazz ideas, but I tend to use the 5th mode of harmonic minor (phrygian dominant) over the D7. I also find that the 4th mode of harmonic minor (Dorian #4) or the 7th mode of melodic minor (Super Locrian) works over the Amin7b5 chord. Other than that I pretty much stick with the diatonic scale and arpeggios that follow the chords.

 

A lot of what you guys have said will give me some other interesting choices to try.

[Dave Regio]

 

Originally posted by r0g3r I'm not from a jazz background, so my choices might not fit traditional jazz ideas, but I tend to use the 5th mode of harmonic minor (phrygian dominant) over the D7. I also find that the 4th mode of harmonic minor (Dorian #4) or the 7th mode of melodic minor (Super Locrian) works over the Amin7b5 chord. Other than that I pretty much stick with the diatonic scale and arpeggios that follow the chords. A lot of what you guys have said will give me some other interesting choices to try.

 

 

What I like the best about your post is that, for whatever reason (likely inexperience), if I'm playing the Am7b5 - D7b9 cadence strictly in terms of G harmonic minor, I'm more cognizant to the F# and the other chord tones of a Gminmaj7. It works but the problem is that I haven't built interesting little phrases where the b9 of the D7 is a strong tone, and I really want to illustrate that tension.

 

By thinking phrygian dominant, it has brought the Eb to my attention more than it did when I was thinking traditional harmonic minor scale, and that's probably because when I think of a scale, I think of chord tones. Eb is not a chord tone in a Gminmaj7 chord.

 

Hope I'm making sense.

[r0g3r]

 

Originally posted by Dave Regio What I like the best about your post is that, for whatever reason (likely inexperience), if I'm playing the Am7b5 - D7b9 cadence strictly in terms of G harmonic minor, I'm more cognizant to the F# and the other chord tones of a Gminmaj7. It works but the problem is that I haven't built interesting little phrases where the b9 of the D7 is a strong tone, and I really want to illustrate that tension. By thinking phrygian dominant, it has brought the Eb to my attention more than it did when I was thinking traditional harmonic minor scale, and that's probably because when I think of a scale, I think of chord tones. Eb is not a chord tone in a Gminmaj7 chord. Hope I'm making sense.

 

 

Yea, same set of notes, but if it helps you look at it from a different perspective that can't hurt. Another thing that can help you highlight that tension is to play the Eb diminished 7th arps over the D7b9 chord. All of the notes in the Eb diminished arps are notes that fall within the G harmonic minor scale. But by playing less notes, it forces you to highlight the tensions, as well as the 3rd, Gb (which is the leading tone for your Gm7 chord) which really helps emphasize the pull back to the Gm7 chord.

[PSA]

My name is PSA and I listen to the Grease soundtrack.

[Dave Regio]

 

Originally posted by r0g3r Yea, same set of notes, but if it helps you look at it from a different perspective that can't hurt. Another thing that can help you highlight that tension is to play the Eb diminished 7th arps over the D7b9 chord. All of the notes in the Eb diminished arps are notes that fall within the G harmonic minor scale. But by playing less notes, it forces you to highlight the tensions, as well as the 3rd, Gb (which is the leading tone for your Gm7 chord) which really helps emphasize the pull back to the Gm7 chord.

 

 

Absolutely. My teacher was going over some lines using the diminished scale. The one I liked the best was building lines and arpeggios off the F#, but any of the chord tones work (except the root of D). He was playing linear lines on a piano and the resolution from the Gb just sounded best to my ear.

 

It took months for me to build a decent chorus to the song. Hopefully it gets easier from here on out. If I could just unlock what's in my damn head.