What chord has the Maj7 and the min3?

[Bud Ice Man]

I guess I'm confused as to why I am not being taught this chord at my school. We learn the Maj7 chord, the Dom.7 chord, and then the min7 chord, but why no chord containing the Maj7 and min3. Is it just a rare occurence to play this chord or is it enharmonically equivalent to something else more common? I will ask my guitar teacher tommorow but I was just wondering about some of your guys and/or gals theories. Thanks!

[Poparad]

It's called a min-maj7 chord, which is the tonic chord of the harmonic and melodic minor scales.

 

It often is excluded due to it being uncommon in relation to min7, maj7, and dom7. However, in reality it really isn't an uncommon chord.

[Bud Ice Man]

Okay cool, that make sense. Is that how it is typically written on a lead sheet then, min-maj7. Or is it like these:

 

Cmaj7= Maj7 with Maj3

C7= Dom7= min7 with Maj3

Cm7= min7 and min3

 

What would the min-maj7 look like compared to these.

[Poparad]

There are generally three common ways it's written. The most common is "Cm-maj7."

 

The second most common is just like that, but instead of the word 'maj' or 'major' there is a triangle, which means the same thing as 'major.' The triangle is also commonly used on maj7 chords.

 

The third most common, which is not really common at all, is "Cm-nat7" where 'nat' is a natural sign. A variation of this that I really don't like is "Cm-#7." I don't like the # variation because to me there is no such thing as a #7. A regular 7 in a maj7, and to me a #7 would be an octave. However, it is occasionally used, usually by older players/teachers/arrangers/composers, so it's good to be aware of it.

[lazaraga]

i like dash triangle seven

[Force]

 

Originally posted by Bud Ice Man ... Is it just a rare occurence to play this chord ...

 

 

You don't see these chords all that often but where I have seen them they've usually been in a sequence like this, using G as an example :

 

Gm / Gm-maj7/ Gm7 / Gm6

 

which gives the effect of a little run descending from the root to the 6th over the basic chord

[lazaraga]

 

Originally posted by Force You don't see these chords all that often but where I have seen them they've usually been in a sequence like this, using G as an example : Gm / Gm-maj7/ Gm7 / Gm6 which gives the effect of a little run descending from the root to the 6th over the basic chord

 

 

aka

contrapuntal

elaboration

of

static

harmony

peace

[Terje]

One song where you can hear this chord in all its beauty is In A Sentimental Mood. The first 4 bars go like this:

 

| Dm Dm-Maj7 | Dm7 G7 | Gm Gm-Maj7 | Gm7 C7 |

 

What you have is a really nice chromatic bass line and another way of writing it could possibly be:

 

| Dm Dm/C# | Dm/C G7 | Gm Gm/F | Gm/F C7 |

[lazaraga]

 

Originally posted by Terje One song where you can hear this chord in all its beauty is In A Sentimental Mood. The first 4 bars go like this: | Dm Dm-Maj7 | Dm7 G7 | Gm Gm-Maj7 | Gm7 C7 | What you have is a really nice chromatic bass line and another way of writing it could possibly be: | Dm Dm/C# | Dm/C G7 | Gm Gm/F | Gm/F C7 |

 

 

sorry but that is not a good example at all.

 

the way i hear it, the basic minor chord sound doesn't change, you just have this chromatic counterpoint going on. sounds like 2 different things to me.

 

i hear this chord in some herbie hancock stuff. the only one i know for sure is in his reharmonization of round midnight from that jazz movie with dex gordon.

 

a better place to hear this chord is in the tune "dindi", by jobim.

in this tune it does follow a regular maj7th, so there is some contrapuntal elaboration going on, but it sticks out a bit better because it doesn't continue after the -maj7.

 

just the way i hear it

 

peace

[Poparad]

I think it's a good example as it's the most common place I see a min-maj7 chord. Granted it's only being used for a chromatic passing line, rather than a tonic chord, but it's still a common place to use the chord.

[lazaraga]

 

Originally posted by Poparad I think it's a good example as it's the most common place I see a min-maj7 chord. Granted it's only being used for a chromatic passing line, rather than a tonic chord, but it's still a common place to use the chord.

 

 

a good example but not the best, and not the place to hear this chord "in all it's beauty" as terje states.

 

in this example, i don't hear this sound as a minor chord with a major 7th. i hear it as a minor chord with a chromatic line passing through.

 

make sense?

 

peace

[Poparad]

 

Originally posted by lazaraga a good example but not the best, and not the place to hear this chord "in all it's beauty" as terje states. in this example, i don't hear this sound as a minor chord with a major 7th. i hear it as a minor chord with a chromatic line passing through. make sense? peace

 

 

I know exactly what you're saying, but you still need to know how to play a min-maj7 chord to play the example, and it is a common thing to see in charts, so I think it's an important usage of the chord to know.

[lazaraga]

 

Originally posted by Poparad I know exactly what you're saying, but you still need to know how to play a min-maj7 chord to play the example, and it is a common thing to see in charts, so I think it's an important usage of the chord to know.

 

 

definitely

[skatom]

Nica's Dream is a good example of min-maj7 chords used without the context of a chromatically descending bass line. The first four bars are as follows -

 

Bbm-maj7 /// //// Abm-maj7 /// ////

 

Cool tune.

 

- tommy b

[lazaraga]

 

Originally posted by lazaraga aka contrapuntal elaboration of static harmony peace

 

 

aka

composite minor

peace

[Force]

 

Originally posted by lazaraga contrapuntal elaboration of static harmony

 

 

Lazaraga .. Would you mind elaborating on this term? I don't have much theory background and I've been trying to work out why this progression sounds so good. I introduce it into lots of melodies, usually when the chart just shows a single chord for 1 or 2 bars - example of my version of Autumn Leaves below.

 

{Em][Em(maj7)]Since [Em]you [b7b9]went away, [b7]the days grow [Em]long, [Em(maj7)] [Em7]

And [Em6]soon I'll [Am7]hear old [D7]winter's song; [G6][Gmaj7]

But I [b7b9]miss you most of [b7]all, my [Em]Dar-[Em(maj7)]ling, [Em7] [Em6]

When [F#m7-5]autumn leaves [b7]start to [Em]fall

 

In this case with the run finishing on the C# in in the Em6 continues to be the C (the b3) in Am7. Is that why it sounds such a natural progression?

[lazaraga]

 

Originally posted by Force Lazaraga .. Would you mind elaborating on this term? In this case with the run finishing on the C# in in the Em6 continues to be the C (the b3) in Am7. Is that why it sounds such a natural progression?

 

 

the term contrapuntal elaboration etc... (aka c.e.s.h.) i took from jerry coker's book "elements of the jazz language for the developing improvisor". a good book, by the way.

 

before that, i was taught this thing under the term "composite minor". it is something i hear in alot of stevie wonder's tunes.

 

i think it sounds good because it introduces some variation in otherwise static (unchanging) harmonies. when it voice leads into following chords this effect is intensified, as in your example.

 

that's all i got off the top of my head, hope it helps some!

 

peace

[Poparad]

 

Originally posted by Force In this case with the run finishing on the C# in in the Em6 continues to be the C (the b3) in Am7. Is that why it sounds such a natural progression?

 

 

It sounds good because it's a line, and a chromatic line at that. Anytime you create a melodic line in your chord voicings, chromatic or diatonic, it will have a really strong feeling of progressing in it.

 

You can take just about any group of chords and make them work by creating the right melody on top of them to tie them together. Sometimes the melody is in the top voice, sometimes the melody is the bassnotes of the voicings. Often it's a combination of the two. Sometimes it's a line moving in the middle voices.

 

As long as you create some sort of melodically interesting line somewhere between the chords, then you will have a strong chord progression.

[vote4dicktaid]

Also, the ending chord of the James Bond theme is, I believe, a Em-maj7 (with an added 9th, but still...).

[Force]

Lazaraga/Poparad .. Thanks. I guess the simple message is "If it sounds good, do it". It certainly sounds better than banging on the same chord for 4 or 8 beats.

[mukuzi]

 

Originally posted by Terje | Dm Dm/C# | Dm/C G7 | Gm Gm/F | Gm/F C7 |

 

 

they look like slash chords to me

Dm/C#

 

Dm = D. F. G

/C#= C#. F. G#

 

thats the way i look at chords with a slash between them

as two triads, one in the bass and one on top. the extended chord would read D minor major 7th sharp 11

[Poparad]

 

Originally posted by skatan they look like slash chords to me Dm/C# Dm = D. F. G /C#= C#. F. G# thats the way i look at chords with a slash between them as two triads, one in the bass and one on top. the extended chord would read D minor major 7th sharp 11

 

 

You're thinking of polychords, which are written as a faction:

 

Dm

----

C#

 

 

When they are written horizontally, they are slash chords, which means a triad over a specific bass note (rather than a whole chord).

 

Dm/C# would just be a Dm triad with the lowest voice being a C#.

[viswar]

Yea, it`s that Bond/secet agent sound.

[mukuzi]

Originally posted by Poparad You're thinking of polychords, which are written as a faction: Dm ---- C# When they are written horizontally, they are slash chords, which means a triad over a specific bass note (rather than a whole chord). Dm/C# would just be a Dm triad with the lowest voice being a C#.

 

cool mate thanks for that.