Members alez Posted January 27, 2006 Members Share Posted January 27, 2006 ..in case any of you have tried it and wants to share views? The reason for this post is that it's the first time I use some newly found intuition (to split the chord sequence in chunks) and I don't feel too confident with anything I'm taking a first look to this one, focusing on improvisation.. OK, so I got the changes from here: http://www.olga.net/dynamic/browse.php?local=main/g/george_gershwin/summertime.crd Also there's this changes sheet, but the chords look all wrong to me? http://www.olga.net/dynamic/browse.php?local=main/g/gershwin_george/summertime.crd So I'm using the ones from the first link. First glance: those changes are mad quick, I can't keep hitting chord notes on every chord. Second thought: I listen to the song in my mind, and it kind of suggests less harmonic movement to me. Specifically, my mind is kind of suggesting that the following may work for a first approach: Dm6 / % / Dm6 / % / Gm7 / % / AMaj6 / A7b5 / Dm6 / % / Dm6 / % / FMaj6 / Gm7 / Dm6 / % I then have a look at what I've just done when writing those chords. I've kind of identified the bars that sound either tonic or subdominant TO ME, in other words the bars that are kind of telling a "story" to me. I've divided those in chunks just AS I SEE FIT, specifically 2 bar chunks in this particular tune. The rest of the exercise is just math. I've taken each chunk, put together the notes of the chords in there, and found a scale / chord to fit the chunk (I find the chords in a chunk to belong to a single scale,so my intuition is kind of working, no surprise). From the possible choices, I use the most stable / tonic, which happens to be the first chord of each 2 bar chunk (again no surprise). In my chord chart above, that's bars 1 to 7, 9 to 13, and 15 to 16. What is left is the bars that sound dominant to me, that create tension and bring the "story" to a climax just before reaching the tonic "calmness" to follow. In my somewhat oversimplified chart, that's bars 8 and 14. So I look for a chord to fit each of these 1 bar chunks, using an approach totally different from the previous one. Why? Firstly because, not surprisingly, the chords there don't belong to a single particular scale. Secondly because, for each of these two chunks, the chord acting as a dominant is the last one (again no surprise), i.e. the one followed by a tonic chord to come next. So what I do is I use that last chord for the whole chunk, extending the dominant tension to the whole bar instead of the original quarter (last quarter of bar 8) or half (last half of bar 14). In other words I anticipate the dominant, much the same way as V7 is sometimes played over iim7 during ii-Vs. So I'm kind of hoping that, if I improvise over that simplified chart while the other band members play the original changes, it would work (which I'll be trying soon). Well it won't at first since I'm not too successful at improvisation yet anyway, but what if I was able to improvise using those simplified chords? Would it work? Cheers, Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members simeon Posted January 27, 2006 Members Share Posted January 27, 2006 i don't think either of those charts are right if memory serves, it goes Dm, Dmmaj7, Dm7, Dm6 for the first bit - sorry that's not very informative - i'll post a scan of the chart from the Real Book later tonight when i get home as for your approach, writing a simplified chart to solo over while the band plays the a complex chart may work, but i suspect that you may find yourself clashing occasionally if you've omitted a chord from the complex chart that requires a different set of notes from the chord you're playing over in the simple chart feeling the tonic / dominant parts of the tune is a good thing to do - this will help when playing over tunes with more chords that are played at a faster tempo. but remember...summertime is a ballad, so the tempo is pretty relaxed and you should really be aiming to nail every change in this tune if you're finding that the chords are still going by too quickly, then using a "common tone" approach may help - analyse the scales you want to use for each chord and find which notes they have in common. you can't use this all the time, cos it'll get pretty boring - one way to practice playing over changes is to play one note on each chord and as the chords go by, move up or down in the smallest interval neccessary to hit a scale tone on the next chordif that scale tone is a third or seventh, even better, as it will frame the harmonic movement better what i would definitely say is that never use charts from the internet - i havn't found a single one yet that has been correct! do yourself a favour and buy the Real Book - this is the one that most people use, i think - http://www.janetdavismusic.com/fake_book.html sim just a little thought - i don't know how experienced an improvisor you are, you i apologise if this is old news to you, but if you're learning to improvise and learning to play over changes at the same time, then you're setting yourself a pretty tough task. i would suggest taking some time to blow over some one chord vamps, just to release you from thinking about what notes you're using all the time. this will allow you to focus on some other improvisational skills, like dynamics, telling a story, question and answer, phrasing, sequences etc etc and help connect your inner ear to your horn while bypassing the "concious" area of your brain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gennation Posted January 27, 2006 Members Share Posted January 27, 2006 I've always wondered, is that the same Summertime that Janis Joplin did on the Cheap Thrills album? And that last set of chord posted...with the chromatic movement looks like that was also lifted for Masqerade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members simeon Posted January 27, 2006 Members Share Posted January 27, 2006 dunno about Joplin's version, but that chromatic movement is very common - it's a nice way of spicing up a few bars of the same minor chord, especially if it's followed by a maj7 chord rooted on the b6 a common sequence is this - Cm Cmmaj7 / Cm7 Cm6 / Abmaj7 Db9 / Dm7b5 Galt / sim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gennation Posted January 27, 2006 Members Share Posted January 27, 2006 Yep, I'm very familiar with that chord/melody/chromatic movement and resolving it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members halfwhole Posted January 27, 2006 Members Share Posted January 27, 2006 this is how i play it: Dm/// Dm/// Dm/// Dm///Gm/// Gm/// Emin7b5/// A7alt///Dm/// Dm/// Dm/// Gm/C7/Fmaj/// Emin7b5/A7alt/ Dmin/// A7alt/// its sort of just a minor blues tune to me...the trickiest part could be sounding good on the A7alt chord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alez Posted January 27, 2006 Author Members Share Posted January 27, 2006 Sim, Thank you so much for the very helpful post. the tempo is pretty relaxed and you should really be aiming to nail every change in this tune Crystal clear! Knowing my goals will help going in the right direction move up or down in the smallest interval neccessary to hit a scale tone on the next chord if that scale tone is a third or seventh, even better, as it will frame the harmonic movement better Good one, basically that's what I'm trying for Autumn Leaves, only change "scale tone" in your sentence to "chord tone", presently I'm trying to hit the closest possible chord tone as an exercise. never use charts from the internet do yourself a favour and buy the Real Book Agreed!! And so I did, bought the New Real Book, which I thought would cover virtually anything I would want to practice for many years to come.. only to find out it doesn't have the part for MANY well known songs such as "Summertime" itself, "Lullaby of Birdland", "A Night in Tunisia" and so on. I just had a look to the link you sent, the Real Book there has both "Lullaby of Birdland" and "A Night in Tunisia" but not "Summertime", does your one have it? Or you may have got it from somewhere else? Kind of pisses me off, I pay a fortune to have the Ultimate Ultra-New Real Book sent to Spain directly from the publisher Sher Music just because I think I'd contribute to what they do (I mean I could have just downloaded it), so yes, I bought what is believed to be the ultra-latest edition, and then it has a 50% less common songs than the previos ones or the ones most people seem to have?? Also I usually carry a soft copy of the Real Book with me, but today I forgot it at home I should check that before I ask you for a scan, but thanks very much for the kind offer. The other thing is, well, I don't feel good about using any of you guys as my clerk, I'm just so lucky to have your advice as experienced musicians. if you're learning to improvise and learning to play over changes at the same time, then you're setting yourself a pretty tough task No this is not old news to me, on the contrary I thank you again for the wise advice. Your post is all clear, nicely explained and most useful, and I'm keeping a printout to read it a few more times this weekend! Cheers, Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alez Posted January 27, 2006 Author Members Share Posted January 27, 2006 Cheers Halfwhole, well at least I got the tonic and subdominant sections more or less right, at least conceptually? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members simeon Posted January 27, 2006 Members Share Posted January 27, 2006 alez - i have about 12 different real books in pdf format, so if you're missing the chart for a tune which you'd like to have a look at, then please let me know, as i'd be more then happy to send you a copy sim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alez Posted January 27, 2006 Author Members Share Posted January 27, 2006 Here we go: http://www.shermusic.com/longlist.htm That's the complete list of songs they have to offer as for today. Summertime is found in the "Standards Real Book". Lullaby of Birdland you can't have anymore (unless you get hold of a copy of the classic Real Book as per the link you suggested). A Night in Tunisia can be found in the "World's Greatest Fake Book" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alez Posted January 27, 2006 Author Members Share Posted January 27, 2006 Sim, I've just sent you an email (got your email from your very impressive website). Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members red|dragon Posted January 27, 2006 Members Share Posted January 27, 2006 listen to summertime on the pat metheny/jim hall duo cd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ottobahn Posted January 31, 2006 Members Share Posted January 31, 2006 The second tab Em Am7 Em Am7 Em Am7 Em Summertime, and the livin' is easy Am7 B7 C7 B7 Fish are jumpin' and the cotton is high I changed the second line so that instead of just Am7 I alternate Am with FMaj just as Em is alternated with Am7 in the first line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alez Posted January 31, 2006 Author Members Share Posted January 31, 2006 Thanks to Simeon I now have an acurate fakesheet for Summertime. It's in a different key from the previous charts but such is life! So in case anyone is interested. Starting from "..time" of the lyrics word "summertime", which I number bar 1: || Am6 . E7/B . | Am6/C . E7/B . | | Am6 . E7/B . | Am6/C . E7/B . | | Dm . F . | FMaj7 . D#dim . | | E . B7 . | E . Em6 E7b5 | || Am6 . E7/B . | Am6/C . E7/B . | | Am6 . E7/B . | Am . D7 . | | C . Am . | D . Dm7/G . | | Am . . . | AmMaj7 . . . || For the purpose of playing over these chords, looks to me like the ideas presented at the beginning of this thread are still valid? I'll have a go and see. Cheers, Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ottobahn Posted January 31, 2006 Members Share Posted January 31, 2006 Originally posted by alez Thanks to Simeon I now have an acurate fakesheet for Summertime. It's in a different key from the previous charts but such is life! So in case anyone is interested. Starting from "..time" of the lyrics word "summertime", which I number bar 1: || Am6 . E7/B . | Am6/C . E7/B . | | Am6 . E7/B . | Am6/C . E7/B . | | Dm . F . | FMaj7 . D#dim . | | E . B7 . | E . Em6 E7b5 | || Am6 . E7/B . | Am6/C . E7/B . | | Am6 . E7/B . | Am . D7 . | | C . Am . | D . Dm7/G . | | Am . . . | Am add nat7 . . . || For the purpose of playing over these chords, looks to me like the ideas presented at the beginning of this thread are still valid? I'll have a go and see. Cheers, Alex How play Am add nat 7? Is that XX2213 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members simeon Posted February 1, 2006 Members Share Posted February 1, 2006 i think he means Ammaj7 - A C E G# sim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alez Posted February 1, 2006 Author Members Share Posted February 1, 2006 Originally posted by ottobahn How play Am add nat 7? Is that XX2213 ? Oops!! Yes, just as Simeon says, I meant AmMaj7, I wonder what kind of weird mechanism made my brain notate it like that I hope you didn't twist your fingers too much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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