Boredom is prohibiting progression...

[Josh Savoy]

WARNING: Long post, but I really desire help.

 

I've been playing for eight years. Very little of this time is serious, but I'm dead serious right now. I've been more involved in other people's music and the business of music, than my own instrument. I talk a big game, but I've decided recently that I really need to get into the thick of things, and I really desire to become a better player.

 

I went to school for classical guitar and that was great, but I'm not a classical player. I got bored, REAL fast. I got really good, but the disinterest in what I was doing was very prohibitive. I want to get into shredding, metal guitar, blues, and eventually some jazz.

 

My Practicing

I lasted a year and a half at school and now I'm out here in Seattle, REALLY serious for the first time in my life. I've been practicing for 5-8 hours a day, but I don't feel its very productive. I run through picking exercises OVER and OVER. Toss in arpeggios and some basic sweeps, and thats my entire practice regimen. Excercises.

 

I've got the Petrucci DVD and Troy Stetina's speed mechanics, but I can't wrap my head around half of the longer (more than 4 bar exercises). Also, my accuracy makes it frustrating to play for long periods of time, because sometimes I simply can't nail the exercise and that makes it difficult.

 

New Material

I'd like to learn whole songs, but my ability isn't up to par. I pull out Metallica tabs, or SRV tabs, and can do 90% of whats there, but after a certain speed I can't pull it off.

 

I know a bunch of random bits to songs, and I'd like to learn the whole thing, but I just can't get the lead parts under my fingers. I can wank out pentatonics like no tommorow, but I really want to go way beyond that.

 

Lessons

I took lessons a while ago, and while my teachers were great, they didn't teach a lot. I felt they were playing more than I was and that they wasted more time in the lessons having me play some inane lick 50 times on the spot. I was thinking if I found the right instructor, I could do well, but I simply don't have the time in my schedule. The lessons I got at college were awesome though, very informative, but learning classical guitar was just not my bag.

 

Summary

I don't know what to practice for vertical growth. I'd love to know every nook and cranny of the guitar, but I'm finding it difficult piecing together the information on the web, or from random books. I'm just really confused on where to go now to get better. I've gone so long without any major successes on my instrument that I've actually contemplated giving up, but I decided to really buckle down and see what happens. Any suggestions or points in the right direction before I say '{censored} it'?

 

PS. Please don't give the step away from the instrument for a while advice. I've done that for days, weeks, months, different blocks of time. It never works. I follow the Cliff Burton way of thinking: "You can only burn out from going to slow".

[gennation]

Well, I wouldn't say step away, I'd say step deeper.

Just from this site Auggie has some GREAT picking, dexterity exercises. If you look around you'll see some threads about them. And he has a book that gets rave reviews.

Personally, I have a site that's full of stuff to mess around with and come out with something positive. http://lessons.mikedodge.com

There's quite a few helpful folks here.

Take a look at Auggie's stuff, and my stuff. If it's not on track with what you seek it'll at least help you narrow somethings down to be a little more descriptive in exactly what you're looking for.

Plus, there's quite a few helpful people at this site. Someone should be able to help.

But I should say, when someone gives you something, like I did with Auggies stuff and my stuff...spend some serious time with it.

There is NO flash in the pan lesson, or magic sentence that is going make everything click. It's you sitting down with your hands on the guitar, or setting it down to focus on reading something without distraction, and just plain practice and "doing it" that's going to help you more than anything.

Maybe it's time to jam with some other people too. That ALWAYS helps a rut.

[can't remember]

Maybe you just need to jam with other people? Practice sucks for me, but it's worth it when you hook up with the rest of the gang.

:jb

[gennation]

Darn, I'm not finding Auggie's lesson thread Maybe he or someelse who has it will post it.

There's also the "Ultimate Lesson Thread"...this will keep you busy for a few years...

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1160513

[edeltorus]

Josh, you need a band. Go out, talk to people, watch out for adds and then get out and play.

This will stop the boredom.

[gennation]

Here's Auggie's stuff. He just bumped it...

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1119721&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

[Josh Savoy]

Originally posted by edeltorus Josh, you need a band. Go out, talk to people, watch out for adds and then get out and play. This will stop the boredom.

 

 

I'm thinking you're right. I just started a relationship with a group of guys where we'll prolly start jamming. It's a forumite's band, and they're looking for a new guitarist.

 

I'm thinking, just playing what the other guitarist is giving me will help me grow a bit. I'm just at a loss of what to do myself.

[Josh Savoy]

Originally posted by gennation Well, I wouldn't say step away, I'd say step deeper. Just from this site Auggie has some GREAT picking, dexterity exercises. If you look around you'll see some threads about them. And he has a book that gets rave reviews. Personally, I have a site that's full of stuff to mess around with and come out with something positive. http://lessons.mikedodge.com There's quite a few helpful folks here. Take a look at Auggie's stuff, and my stuff. If it's not on track with what you seek it'll at least help you narrow somethings down to be a little more descriptive in exactly what you're looking for. Plus, there's quite a few helpful people at this site. Someone should be able to help. But I should say, when someone gives you something, like I did with Auggies stuff and my stuff...spend some serious time with it. There is NO flash in the pan lesson, or magic sentence that is going make everything click. It's you sitting down with your hands on the guitar, or setting it down to focus on reading something without distraction, and just plain practice and "doing it" that's going to help you more than anything. Maybe it's time to jam with some other people too. That ALWAYS helps a rut.

 

 

Solid man. It's been a while since I've jammed with other people. I've been doing classical for so long, and we all know thats not exactly a jam environment.

 

I'll check out the site and the Ultimate Lesson page.

[SixStringAxis]

I cant tell you how much this pains me to say this. To question a genre of music I never do and I could be wrong and everyone will disagree with me but this is still what I think. Get away from shred run from it or atleast work up to it.

I used to be a fan of shred and thats what I first wanted to play but at some point I realized its just horrible music and very boring. Why is this? Because 99.9% of the musicians playing it suck, they dont suck they put in the practice time that for any other type of music they would be amazing but shred is so hard to play that most just never get there. Sure Vai and Dream Theatre are amazing but they still barly pull it off and those 2 and maybe a few others are the only shred players I have ever heard that even come close to making music let alone good music.

I believe the most important thing in music, the most creative, the most artisic thing is rhythm. When your playing 8000 mph and dont stop like most shreders do its hard to play any sort of good catchy rhythm. So I will say it I think 99% of shred is not even music let alone creative art and its far from it. If you get good enough at it and you can hit a perfect great sounding rhythm, bring out some damn emotion like everyone else can in every other genre then great! But you have to work up to that point. Start with something on your level. Then work up to some Sabbath maybe then some Randy Rhodes.

I say this because I was in your same situation at one point I was bored and shredd was my favorite music. But I started picking up other music and I quickly realized the music I was listening to was what was boring. Lets take Zeppelin or Bob Dylan as an example of music I started getting into. At first I kind of liked it, appreciated it but in the back of my mind I didnt really enjoy it. I was looking at it from the wrong point of view bad music had poisened my mind! I didnt see the emotion the storys that comes out of good music country jazz blues anything its all there.

Maybe I just dont see whats good about it, all I see is
the technical rambling that people get off on how fast there playing or some random melodys with no real point behind it. It just noodling its not creative its not artisic nothing interesting there. With the exception of someone like Vai and even he only has a few songs I like.

Sorry for the rant I dont want to question or seem like I am trying to convince the people who truly enjoy there music that I am right. Keep on your path if you enjoy it because thats what its all about. But since "you" said your bored I figured I would through in my views.

[Li Shenron]

Warning: very rough and mean reply ahead (but nothing personal).

Originally posted by Josh Savoy I follow the Cliff Burton way of thinking: "You can only burn out from going to slow".

Ever thought that this is your problem?

- you tried lessons but left because you thought they were leading you nowhere

- you bought books and dvds and perhaps collected tons of stuff from the web, but you don't actually study them as a whole. Maybe you are even just trying doing only the exercises that you can already do well!

- you've been practicing a lot of time per day, but for how long? a few weeks?

- perhaps you've tried this practice regimen many times before, played 12hours for a couple of weeks, then dropped because you still couldn't play Vai's "For the love of god"? But curiously, NOW you're reaaally serious-I-swear-it, right?

- you're thinking about quitting because you had no "major success"

All these are symptoms of someone who wants to get really good really fast, possibly without any effort or frustration. But even the hardest practice routine cannot make you skilled overnight. TIME and EFFORT are always required, and FOCUS on what you're studying is what really prints it into your mind forever. If you feel you're going nowhere, it may just be because you lack focus, not because you lack time.

Think about it, I do not really know about you, but you do, so question yourself, your motivation and your attitude. Learning something is painful, but the pain is not that of staying awake all night or hurting your wrist after 5 hours of the same scale, but rather that of having to keep concentrating even when you're bored and only seeing small improvements at a time.

If I speak so bluntly is because I've seen myself going through the same situation and the same mistakes!

That said, nothing can help you more than trying to play songs with a band. It will force your efforts towards something practical and solid, complete songs within an ensemble, which you must play truly well to perform. It will give you a tangible target (the repertoire), it will refine all your techinques without even noticing, and it will make you feel better. Just don't choose too difficult songs, start low!

[Auggie Doggie]

Originally posted by Josh Savoy My Practicing I've been practicing for 5-8 hours a day, but I don't feel its very productive. I run through picking exercises OVER and OVER. Toss in arpeggios and some basic sweeps, and thats my entire practice regimen. Excercises. That is WAY too much time spent on exercises. Remember, you'll learn what you practice, and become what you learn. Working on exercises like that is similar to a football player spending all his time in the weight room; sure, he's building muscle, but he's completely lost when it comes to the playbook. Exercises are a very low-level activity; you can do them without your ears or conscious brain being particularly involved. They're great for warming up, and for building strength, speed, and coordination, and even for highly concentrated drills, but in and of themselves, they are of extremely limited value. They get boring...and they get boring quickly. The main purpose for my first book ( Raising the Barre ) was to get away from pure mechanical exercise, and work on technique in much more musical settings. The hands still get quite a workout, but the eyes, ears, and musical memory (this is a huge factor, and one that's nearly always overlooked) are actively engaged at all times. Since you've studied classical guitar, you should be used to the idea of etudes being used for technique rather than mindless exercise...of course, in my book, they're violin and keyboard studies, but the concept is the same. Anyway, this isn't just a shameless plug of my book; I'm just trying to get the point across that exercises should receive much less of your time and attention...you need to work on music. I've got the Petrucci DVD and Troy Stetina's speed mechanics, but I can't wrap my head around half of the longer (more than 4 bar exercises). Also, my accuracy makes it frustrating to play for long periods of time, because sometimes I simply can't nail the exercise and that makes it difficult. Frustration is generally the result of your eyes being bigger than your hands, so to speak. You're either playing something that's too difficult physically, or you're trying to go faster than you should. If you can't get your mind past 4 bars of music, then either what you're playing isn't musical enough to remember, or you're not putting enough emphasis on memorizing it. New Material I'd like to learn whole songs, but my ability isn't up to par. I pull out Metallica tabs, or SRV tabs, and can do 90% of whats there, but after a certain speed I can't pull it off. If you can play a song that you like at, say, 80% of its original tempo, then you should continue practicing it at that speed. Make it a habit to play something well ...the speed will eventually increase, seemingly of its own volition. If you're nowhere near abe to play at the desired tempo, then you're going to need to address speed as a separate issue for a while. Please check out my 'speed' series in this forum; it's been damaged by forum 'upgrades', so everything is a bit scattered when it comes to the pdf files. Lessons I took lessons a while ago, and while my teachers were great, they didn't teach a lot. I felt they were playing more than I was and that they wasted more time in the lessons having me play some inane lick 50 times on the spot. I was thinking if I found the right instructor, I could do well, but I simply don't have the time in my schedule. The lessons I got at college were awesome though, very informative, but learning classical guitar was just not my bag. The best thing you can do for now is to remember the hows and whats of your classical lessons, and apply them to the material you want to learn. The structure, the methodology, the process, etc., will always apply, even though the material itself is different. Try to understand WHY your classical instruction was successful, and adapt that methodology to other things. If doing it on your own fails, you can always take lessons again...and this time, you'll have a better idea of what you need/don't need from the instructor. Summary I don't know what to practice for vertical growth. I'd love to know every nook and cranny of the guitar, but I'm finding it difficult piecing together the information on the web, or from random books. I'm just really confused on where to go now to get better.

 

 

 

You need to set some specific long and short term goals...you need something to work for, and to have something tangible to show for your efforts.

 

You need to develop an organized approach to attaining those goals. Random, sporadic things aren't very effective...you need to select a track and stick to it, building gradually and in a constant direction.

 

For vertical growth, you need to focus on stuff that you CAN NOT do. You have to force the evolution of your playing...it's like learning how to swim by hurling yourself into the deep end of the pool. Sure, it might just kill you, but if you survive, you'll be ready for damn near anything.

 

In the internet age, the instant gratification mindset reigns supreme. Yes, there is a TON of information on the web...it may even be organized within itself, but you will find much more contradiction from site to site than you'll find agreement and consistency. I do not recommend an internet-based learning approach; instead, you should find/develop a sound, logical approach to learning, and use the info available online as supplementary at best.

 

A musician is only as good as his library. Look around at Amazon.com to find information and reviews on books that deal with the things you want to learn. Ask around at forums (like you're doing here)...ask friends, experienced musicians and teachers, etc. When you find a few books, videos (though I am not much of a fan of video lessons), etc., nut up and actually buy them. They're an investment, so by buying them, you'll be more inclined to make sure you get your money's worth out of them. Stick with them....learning is gradual in the long run, but occurs in giant leaps in the short run.

 

And don't ever just give up. You'll wake up 5, 10, or 25 years down the road with a rekindled passion for it, and you'll regret all the time you wasted by not practicing and playing.

[red|dragon]

You can't learn guitar from the internet.