Timing/metronome thoughts.

[bardsley]

I'm just posting this because I got thinking about it listening to Wolfmother. They're a band who I think have pretty bad timing (they seem to speed up and slow down within the space of a two bars), but a loose groove isn't necessarily bad in a lot of rock music. Most rock bands have a very loose approach to timing, as opposed to jazz, in which people tend to be much stricter at adhering to the same speed. This is what can make rock music so good of course, I'm not trying to say one's better than the other.

 

But...

I think it's partly what makes people not want to practice with a metronome. Compared to a live band, a metronome is obviously vastly more consistant, and this can make it seem "cold" to those accustomed to a looser feel. A lot of people don't want to get their timing that rigid; they want it to breathe a little more.

I think that this can still be accomplished using a metronome.

 

Unless you're practicing with a metronome by doing things like having very long gaps between clicks, or playing at a tempo, turning it off, then playing some more and turning it back on to test how constant your beat was, you're not really using the metronome to make your beat always more even. What you're really doing (if you're listening properly and all of that) is learning to play along with something creating a beat. That beat happens to be constant, but it doesn't matter. Think about your metronome as a drummer with insane time. You want to lock in with it completely. It wouldn't matter if someone was slightly moving the dial on the metronome, you'd be able to adjust pretty easily if you were listening.

 

Therefore, metronomes don't kill your time, they teach you how to lock in with another instrument, and that's nothing but good (and something that Wolfmother haven't quite nailed, from my limited listening, despite their catchy Zeppelin-like tunes).

[Terje]

Originally posted by bardsley ... as opposed to jazz...

 

 

What? Jazz has a more strict time feel than most rock? Are you serious?

[bardsley]

Ok, I probably didn't explain myself to well. I simply meant in terms of tempo. Aside from particular section of rubato time, etc. the general idea with a jazz standard is that whatever tempo you start at, you finish at. Things tend to speed up a little, which happens with most music really, but in general you have to mantain a very strict tempo in bop-style jazz. A drummer would never get away with the kind of tempo changes that happen every bar in a lot of rock tunes.
Similarly, it's got a lot to do with why jazzers can sound a bit lame in rock, even when they can play all the notes. Their time can be stiff, and too up on the beat.

[Terje]

I understand what you mean, it's just that I've never had that experience. My experience is that jazzers can indeed be a little shaky when it comes to keeping the tempo. And in instrumental jazz, especially in bebop since nobody is dancing anyway, it is OK to raise the tempo slightly as you go, while in rock this is a really big no-no. Most of the rock and pop drummers I've played with have been better than the jazz drummers at this one thing, they keep the tempo real well. On the other hand, they do not swing so what's the use.

[bardsley]

Well, that's fair enough, you can only judge from experience, so we've just had different ones. I'm happy to accept that.
The main thing is, practice with a metronome everyone!