allman brothers intervals

[raulduke1952]

hi. dumb question.................. what is the interval between dickey betts and greg allman when they play in unison?

thanks in advance.

[Poparad]

Um.... if they are playing in unison, then they'd be playing the same notes, so the interval would be a unison.

[guitarviz]

Not really an answer to your question but here's Dickey Betts on the subject, from an issue of Guitar World a few months back:

 

Q: How did you and Duane work out your guitar harmonies?

 

A: It was really natural. Duane would almost always wait for me or sometimes Oakley to come up with a melody, and then he would join in with the harmony. We did a lot of it on the fly. If I played a riff twice, the third time he would be right on it with the harmony. We almost never sat down and figured out the notes; we just did it. And if you listen carefully to a lot of the harmonies Duane played, it's not the correct notes you would choose if you wrote it out, but it always sounded great.

[raulduke1952]

cool. but......... if one guy plays an A note what did the other guy play?

[windmill]

Usually it is a third or a fifth higher or lower, but for the Allmans I don't know.

 

try a sixth higher

[ottobahn]

I'll bet those boys went by ear and instinct.

 

If they sat down and dismantled their playing and tried to figure out the harmony theory behind it, they would lose the magic.

[Poparad]

Originally posted by ottobahn I'll bet those boys went by ear and instinct. If they sat down and dismantled their playing and tried to figure out the harmony theory behind it, they would lose the magic.

 

That's a bunch of idyllic bullshit. Knowing what you're doing doesn't make it any less special; it only allows you to get there more quickly and make the magic more consistantly.

 

They played things based around the chord tones of the chord progression. If one of them was playing the 3rd of a chord, the other would play either the root or 5th, either above or below, and then stay fixed in that interval (mostly) to harmonize the rest of the line, making adjustments as the chords changed to fit the harmony best.

 

Whether you do it by ear or you know what the right notes are, or, better yet, use both tools, there's still a lot of creativity and choice involved, and it is never any less magic no matter how much you know about what you're doing.

[Stackabones]

Originally posted by Poparad That's a bunch of idyllic bullshit. Knowing what you're doing doesn't make it any less special; it only allows you to get there more quickly and make the magic more consistantly. ... Whether you do it by ear or you know what the right notes are, or, better yet, use both tools, there's still a lot of creativity and choice involved, and it is never any less magic no matter how much you know about what you're doing.

 

+1

[buddastrat]

Originally posted by ottobahn I'll bet those boys went by ear and instinct. If they sat down and dismantled their playing and tried to figure out the harmony theory behind it, they would lose the magic.

 

 

I agree. There's a point where you think too much. Sometimes.

[guitarviz]

As usual its most helpful to actually analyze specific examples.

 

The only Allman songs with harmony lines I had handy were a couple of old ones: Revival ("people can you hear me... love is in the air") and Dreams.

 

Here are the intervals between the two guitar lines from selected sections, divided by bar lines. "4" = interval of a fourth, "5" = interval of a fifth, etc.

 

Revival intro

 

4 | 5 | 4 | 3

 

 

Revival: Dm section (about 0:55)

note: I've notated based on what meter sounds like to me here: two bars of 3/4, followed by a bar of 4/4, repeat

 

3 | 3 | 6 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 |

 

 

Dreams: outro

 

5 | 6 | 3 | 4

 

 

Maybe what Dickey meant when he said this:

 

>

 

was that a lot of times if you approach playing a harmony part you tend to think in intervals of thirds or sixths, rather then fourths and fifths, which from the (admittedly small) sampling above, seems to be what the Allmans sometimes favored.

[guitarviz]

Originally posted by ottobahn If they sat down and dismantled their playing and tried to figure out the harmony theory behind it, they would lose the magic.

 

maybe a better way of stating this might be to change it from past tense to future conditional tense

 

"If they were to sit down beforehand and dismantle their playing and try to figure out what they should be playing, based on the harmony theory behind it, they might lose some magic"

[riovine]

If I remember correctly, the lead line in "In Memory Of Elizabeth Reed" starts out as unison, then it was harmonized in 3rds, both major & minor as appropriate, you might want give it a listen to make sure.

[guitarviz]

Originally posted by riovine If I remember correctly, the lead line in "In Memory Of Elizabeth Reed" starts out as unison, then it was harmonized in 3rds, both major & minor as appropriate, you might want give it a listen to make sure.

 

That sounds like I remember it.

 

Some of this stuff is coming back to me. (Doing it by memory -- Fillmore East is sitting with my other albums gathering dust in the garage... guess I should break down and get them on iTunes)

 

Elizabeth Reed has a more uptempo part that is also in thirds. (and the lead-in to that part is harmonized diminished scale, cool!)

 

Whipping Post harmony lines during chorus are also in thirds IIRC.

 

Hot Lanta I recall as being intervals of a fifth, altho like Eliz Reed I think the first time the parts are unison, harmonies don't occur until subsequent times thru.

[beeswing]

Poparad... you're elitist attitude sucks.

 

Some of the best music ever made was by people who probably couldn't rattle off the the difference between a 9th or 13th. Perhaps they weren't able to spend as much time at the public library.

 

Try to have a little more grace when people are asking questions simply to enhance their enjoyment of music, regardless of their skill level.

[YoyoMania]

On 11/16/2006 at 3:36 AM, beeswing said:

Poparad... you're elitist attitude sucks.

 

Some of the best music ever made was by people who probably couldn't rattle off the the difference between a 9th or 13th. Perhaps they weren't able to spend as much time at the public library.

 

Try to have a little more grace when people are asking questions simply to enhance their enjoyment of music, regardless of their skill level.

This type of comment was typical of internet culture in 2006. Someone (likepoparad) would actually have an informed opinion about something, but they would say it too aggressively, and then someone else (beeswing) would feel the need to chime in, criticizing the way someone said something instead of what they actually said. This would later become “cancel” culture.