Soloing over a chord progression...

[Gizzmo0815]

Okay...so I'm trying brush up on my theory a bit...please let me know if I'm on the right track here...apologies if this is basic.

 

In a basic 12 bar blues progession I, IV, V in say Am the three chords are Am, Dm and Em...

 

So, when soloing over this progression I can always use the Am pentatonic and the A Blues scales over any of the above chords. Right?

 

Can I also change the scale I'm using to match each chord change? In other words the first four bars will be the Am chord, so I use the Am Pentatonic or A Blues scales. The next two bars are the Dm chord can I use the Dm pentatonic or D Blues scales during those two bars? Same for the next chord change Em...can I use the Em Pentatonic or E Blues scales?

 

And lastly...can I play any of those scales Am, Dm, and Em over any of the chords in the progression? I.E. could I play the Em Pentatonic over the Am chord??

[Music Calgary]

So, when soloing over this progression I can always use the Am pentatonic and the A Blues scales over any of the above chords. Right?

 

Yes you can. But for a few gifted exceptions very few guitarists can make this compelling over the long run though...

 

Can I also change the scale I'm using to match each chord change? In other words the first four bars will be the Am chord, so I use the Am Pentatonic or A Blues scales. The next two bars are the Dm chord can I use the Dm pentatonic or D Blues scales during those two bars? Same for the next chord change Em...can I use the Em Pentatonic or E Blues scales?

 

Absolutely you can, in advanced jazz some of those guys are changing scales every bar at breakneck speeds. The more likely approach here though is to identify and practice a family of scales which will work over each chord and play over a backing track to get a feel for how they integrate into each other. Lots of great Blues DVDs out there which will present you with the difference scales choices that some artists prefer. My choices can get pretty tangential at times so I'll spare you those. Hee.

 

And lastly...can I play any of those scales Am, Dm, and Em over any of the chords in the progression? I.E. could I play the Em Pentatonic over the Am chord??

You can but if you emphasize the wrong notes it will sound sketchy. There are no "incorrect notes to play" in your solos -- only "incorrect notes to emphasize" in terms of disonance.

 

There are no sour notes, only sour resolutions.

 

So the key there is to play over a backing track and experiment -- because to some extent the fine art of guitar is "learning to make things work" which normally might not, i.e. stepping on the cracks.

 

Plus playing over backing tracks is fun and that's the name of the game. Just one tip, try recording yourself, even if only through a cellphone voice recorder, so you can listen back and make sure you aren't just picking through the same old ruts. Try to make each recording a little different than the last -- this will lead you through all the important permutations eventually. Jamming over tracks is partly about self discovery too.

[youbetcha1018]

I firmly believe,you can use all the notes whatever progression your'e into.Its just a matter of good choice of notes and of course resolving.But i will answer exactly what your asking.Yes,you can use the Dm and Em scale over the Am,But its a skill which is something to develop.What i mean is,at first,most of the time you'll get out of tune.Again,its about resolving.

[Music Calgary]

Just had a look -- OK so if you get a chance the Lick Library video to check out on this is called Chords And The Scales That Fit Them by Stuart Bull. Stuart isn't the most dynamic guy on there but he provides good info here and it's quite watchable -- so check it out if you can, it should help you out.

 

http://www.licklibrary.com/store/stuart-bull/15601/ultimate-guitar-chords-and-the-scales-that-fit-them-2-dvd-set

 

He does a good job of breaking it all down and providing a view of the landscape without overwhelming or jumping ahead -- it's easy to follow and it will get you hip to extensions, etc.

[gennation]

Yes you can do everything you've listed because every one of your points comes directly from the A Minor scale (sans the "blue notes" from the different blues scales).

 

Playing all of these will give you a few ideas to mess with, and kind of keeps you within the boundaries or the "safe notes" if you will...IOW, no note you play will be out of Key or out of scale.

 

But you might take this opportunity to learn some theory behind the "Minor Key"...in a Minor Key MANY times (in ALL KINDS of different genres too) the Vm chord is played as a Major or Dominant chord instead. So try your Im-IVm-Vm progression as a Im-IVm-V progression.

 

The V or V7 chord is used quite frequently since it contains a "leading tone", or a note a half-step below the Root of the Im. This note almost forces the V7 to resolve to the Im chord. This is a sound you've probably heard a million times on the radio or on TV or in the movies. This "sound" you might've heard it called a "cadence", and it's also referred to as "tension and release". That V7 really finds it's way back to the Im chord nicely.

 

In A Minor the V7 chord is E7, every note in E7 is in the Key of A Minor except for the G# which is the leading tone a half-step below A, the Root of the Am chord.

 

Scale wise now for a Am-Dm-E7 progression...play A Natural Minor for Am and Dm but play A Harmonic Minor for E7.

 

You can think of this as playing two separate scales if you want OR just think of it as playing A Natural Minor throughout and substituting G# for the G note in the scale when you're over E7 and you've accomplished pretty much everything/sound you need to.

 

Give it a try, I'm sure you'll hear what I'm talking about.

[Gizzmo0815]

 

Scale wise now for a Am-Dm-E7 progression...play A Natural Minor for Am and Dm but play A Harmonic Minor for E7. You can think of this as playing two separate scales if you want OR just think of it as playing A Natural Minor throughout and substituting G# for the G note in the scale when you're over E7 and you've accomplished pretty much everything/sound you need to.

 

 

Aaaaaahhh...this popped in my head (if that makes sense).

 

Now I understand the reason why the natural and harmonic minor exist.

 

I think, for me, I always was thinking of the pentatonic as a separate scale, but in reality it's just a minor (in this case) scale with a few notes missing.

 

Also, I wasn't thinking of the chord changes in terms of the scale modes...I was thinking of the chord changes as key changes...in other words...Instead of using the various modes of the key that the song is written in I was thinking that I would be basing the scales I was soloing in off of the chord that was currently being played...I.E. Dm chord I would play in the Dm scale...Em chord would mean I play in the Em scale...(which I COULD do, but that would constitute an actual change of key which might sound odd every time the chords changed).

 

But since the pentatonic takes out some key elements of the scale it makes modal playing much more simplified...which is why the pentatonics are so powerful I guess. Brilliant!

[Music Calgary]

Now I understand the reason why the natural and harmonic minor exist.

 

They predate Blues actually by a waaaaaays.

[gennation]

You know many people spend time on Diatonic theory but never really understand "Keys". The Minor Key is a good place to start because it inherently gives you this V7 chord that's not "in the scale" but very much "in the Key".

 

"Cadences" are a great place to start to see the difference.

 

Many never break the concept of "Key" as being different than the concept of the "scale". Sure you can use a scale to build all these perfect "right out of the scale" chords and stuff, but with a "Key" all of the notes that aren't in the scale are JUST AS important as the ones that are in the scale.

 

This is why in theory you can create progressions and things that stay strictly in a Diatonic scale, but in music you end up with a bunch of stuff that ISN'T in the Diatonic scale...and it still sounds really good.

 

That V7 in a Minor Key is a great example of how the scale notes don't need to stay the same in regards to the Key.

 

This is all application speaking, the next step beyond the Diatonic theory aspects.

[mark7171]

for em am dm ...use em pent? no wonder everything sounds the same...

 

remmember you can take it chiral !

 

you can activeate the acending scales by decending them. and vise versa.

 

for things like G D Em C, you go Em pent scale. always the pent minor chord indicates.

[mark7171]

na example of chirility would be play 5-7-8 on low E. then chiral would be 8-9-11. eyes should light up!

[mhoward]

na example of chirility would be play 5-7-8 on low E. then chiral would be 8-9-11. eyes should light up!

 

Chiril? Could you be more obtuse?

[mark7171]

i cant apply obtuse to the addvice i offered?

 

to go greater than 90 degrees , hmmmmmmmm. so i'm hot ?

 

okay, then your Acute guy.

 

the fingerboard itself is chiral/mirror image. or did you miss that? you only need to find the key to begin the mirror flip

[Jed]

 

the fingerboard itself is chiral/mirror image. or did you miss that? you only need to find the key to begin the mirror flip

 

 

Do you really expect people to understand what you are saying? Just what is it that the fretboard is a chiral of? And yes I understand the term, I just don't follow your logic.

 

 

To the OP,

 

Re-read Gennation's posts, in fact re-read everyone's post before mark7171 chimed in. All of the advise, comments and even Gizzmo's revelation are dead-on.

 

The most interesting thing for me about the minor keys, are that they sound best when they try to be more like the major scale (with the major IV and major V chords / via the harmonic and melodic minor scales).

 

There is a lifetime of value to be had from really, really understanding the pentatonics, where they came from and how they work relative to the major and minor (7-note) scales from which they are derived.

 

cheers,

[mark7171]

way to be dick , jed.

 

it means you can go from certain points in the scale and flip it upside down. play 5-7-8 on low E. position fret 8 is the mirror. take what you played and flip it over. now its 8-9-11. try 12-14-15, mirror is 15th frett. flip it and you get 15-16-18. at times its just altering hand position within scale, other times its not. this is a cool way to alter cadence and really step it up. also think of strings in pairs. i love taking the solo down to plucking pairs.

 

 

i disagree with gennation to some degree.

 

if you playing a 1 4 5 blues . progression being E A B A. you would naturally solo in a C# pentatonic. relative minor chord will be the solo key. it will cover the "safe" notes from the other scales.

 

if it was F C Bb...you solo in D pentatonic

 

"all along the watch tower" being, Am G F...you solo in A pentaontic.

 

get it? cause the rest is BS.

[mark7171]

 

There is a lifetime of value to be had from really, really understanding the pentatonics, where they came from and how they work relative to the major and minor (7-note) scales from which they are derived. cheers,

 

 

the guitar is pentaonic by nature of tunning E A D G B E. eachstring is 5 steps from the next. 5= penta...

[iansmitchell]

To make phasing transparent and feel right, I suggest, even if you DON'T switch scales, stike the root note of the chord at every change.

Change over to D, play the 3rd string at the 7th fret.

Change to A, 1st string at the 5th, or 4th at the 7th(or 19th).

Change to E, 5th at 7th, 4th at 2nd or 14th, 2nd at 5th.

 

It keeps you on track.

I also like to do a finger twiddle between root notes if there's two chords in one bar, it's a nice changeover.

[Music Calgary]

 

the guitar is pentaonic by nature of tunning E A D G B E. eachstring is 5 steps from the next.

 

 

G to B is 4 steps.

 

The guitar is not pentatonic by nature. It is chromatic by nature. If you play the frets you get a chromatic, not a pentatonic. If it were pentatonic by nature playing the frets would produce a pentatonic scale of some sort.

[Gizzmo0815]

So I played with this last night...and had a moment...

 

I had a backing track playing a I IV V progression in Am (excepting the E7)

 

I played in 12/8

 

4 bars Am, 2 bars Dm, 2 bars Am, 1 bar Am, 1 bar, Dm, 1 bar Em, 1 bar E7...and then looped it...

 

I found that in some cases playing the mode sounded better to me...I.E. playing the Am pentatonic in the 3rd position (I think it is, the Am pentatonic that starts on D) over the Dm chord...

 

And in other cases playing the actual Dm pentatonic scale over the Dm chord sounded better...and generally it all depended on the flow of what I was playing.

 

So really...it doesn't MATTER which one I use, as long as it makes sense in the context of the song.

 

I think sometimes I get caught up in the structure of the theory and I forget that I can actually just do whatever I want as long as it sounds good.

 

***

 

On a side note:

 

mark7171...dude, you are seriously confused.

 

Let's start with a definition:

 

chi

[Music Calgary]

 

So really...it doesn't MATTER which one I use, as long as it makes sense in the context of the song. I think sometimes I get caught up in the structure of the theory and I forget that I can actually just do whatever I want as long as it sounds good.

 

 

Well said.

[Gizzmo0815]

Another question I have is concerning mixing chords into my solos...

 

Generally when I'm playing the blues I just solo with individual notes...but I'd like to start to find some ways to add chords into my soloing to flesh it out more.

 

The only artist I can think of that really does what I'm looking to do is Stevie Vaughan. Good example is the solo he usually did when he played "Cold Shot" it's sort of a raking jangly sound that he gets...it almost sounds like he's playing both rhythm AND lead at the same time. I have no idea how he goes about doing it.

 

But how do I know (once I know the chord progression) what chords I can play on top of it?

[Music Calgary]

Another question I have is concerning mixing chords into my solos... Generally when I'm playing the blues I just solo with individual notes...but I'd like to start to find some ways to add chords into my soloing to flesh it out more. The only artist I can think of that really does what I'm looking to do is Stevie Vaughan. Good example is the solo he usually did when he played "Cold Shot" it's sort of a raking jangly sound that he gets...it almost sounds like he's playing both rhythm AND lead at the same time. I have no idea how he goes about doing it. But how do I know (once I know the chord progression) what chords I can play on top of it?

 

Chord melody playing is beyond awesome but very challenging:

http://www.angelfire.com/fl4/moneychords/chordmelody.html

 

That's something you definitely want to work on with a good teacher if you want to get some real traction. It's pretty involved. On the other hand if you just start learning some chord melody stuff from tab it will come to you eventually.

 

SRV was magic, he had a certain synergy to his playing and a blues touch as hard to master as any I've ever seen. Great role model though, check out the unplugged video of him from MTV on Youtube -- pure fire.

 

Joe Pass videos on Youtube are a great place to see some solid chord melody playing.

[iansmitchell]

 

Another question I have is concerning mixing chords into my solos... Generally when I'm playing the blues I just solo with individual notes...but I'd like to start to find some ways to add chords into my soloing to flesh it out more. The only artist I can think of that really does what I'm looking to do is Stevie Vaughan. Good example is the solo he usually did when he played "Cold Shot" it's sort of a raking jangly sound that he gets...it almost sounds like he's playing both rhythm AND lead at the same time. I have no idea how he goes about doing it. But how do I know (once I know the chord progression) what chords I can play on top of it?

 

Cold shot is done using a leslie speaker.

But you wanna get GREAT, dump vaughan, get with the king.(Albert King)

[Music Calgary]

But you wanna get GREAT, dump vaughan, get with the king.(Albert King)

 

Guthrie Govan has a great little video on youtube:

 

[mark7171]

 

mark7171...dude, you are seriously confused. Let's start with a definition: The last time I used that word was when I was studying chemistry in college...chiral is NOT the right word to use in this context.

 

 

chiral meaning, Of an object that exhibits chirality - as in the left- and right- handed version of a helix . on guitar there are 2 sides to play on(not just before and after the 12th fret). also not that they are super imposible.

 

i m not confused at all. just offering suggestions on how to jam.

 

i wonder if you even tried my little lesson in order to understand/hear what im saying...

 

nice incomplete argument on the G B string....is that it? do you know why its 4 steps? ...

 

i guess im no help here. im not a good teacher, but im not the one with the questions. i stand by my theory and ability.

 

those fancy words, are just starting positions from the same master scale. some arent being used correctly here.

[Gizzmo0815]

Chord melody playing is beyond awesome but very challenging: http://www.angelfire.com/fl4/moneychords/chordmelody.html That's something you definitely want to work on with a good teacher if you want to get some real traction. It's pretty involved. On the other hand if you just start learning some chord melody stuff from tab it will come to you eventually. SRV was magic, he had a certain synergy to his playing and a blues touch as hard to master as any I've ever seen. Great role model though, check out the unplugged video of him from MTV on Youtube -- pure fire. Joe Pass videos on Youtube are a great place to see some solid chord melody playing.

 

I need more artists to look at and get ideas from...SRV is great, Clapton is fantastic, Albert King is awesome...are there any other players that I don't know about that exhibit this kind of expertise in blues? Anyone more current?