Playing from chord to chord...a "what's in between" example

[gennation]

This started as a response to the "soloing over chords" thread, but instead of distracting from that thread I thought I'd make it a new discussion...

 

A "what's in between" example:

 

Take a common IIIm7-IIm7-Imaj7 progression in G Major:

 

||: Bm7 | Am7 | Gmaj7 | Gmaj7 :||

 

Simple enough to think "play nothing but a G Major scale", right? Or you might even get 'technical' and think "play B Phrygian, A Dorian, and G Ionian", right?

 

These are both all too common thoughts in playing "over" chords. But they can lead to "play this, then play this, then play this" which can lead to a sterile sound quickly. But this is how we decipher things we learn as diagrams and try to carve them up into music. But realize a couple of things here...

 

All of the Roots and the 5th's of those chords follow a whole step sequence...

 

Roots = B->A->G

5th's = F#->E->D

 

These are little guidelines you want to see to help you get "between" the chords. By adding the notes between those whole steps you can help each chord, or melody line, lead to the chord.

 

So let's look at this chromatically now:

 

Roots = B->Bb->A->Ab->G

5ths = F#->F->E->Eb->D

 

Let's use these now to MOVE from one chord to the next chord. Let's play through this progression using them a couple of ways:

 

 

original

||: Bm7 | Am7 | Gmaj7 | Gmaj7 :||

 

Using the chromatics from the Roots

||: Bm7 Bm6 | Am7 Am6 | Gmaj7 | Gmaj7 :||

 

Using the chromatics from the 5th and Roots

||: Bm Bm6 Bdim7 | Am7 Am6 Adim7 | Gmaj7 | Gmaj7 :||

1 2 3 4 | 1 2 3 4

 

Another view of both

||: Bm7 Bb7 | Am7 Ab7 | Gmaj7 | Gmaj7 :||

 

 

Now play like you are playing of all THOSE chords but have your rhythm track ONLY play the original progression. Also, to help your yourself hear this, when you create your rhythm track ONLY play the R, 3. and 7 of each chord...better yet just play the 3's and 7's. Let you line handle the Roots and 5th since you are ging to use them to move through the progression from "chord to chord" as opposed to "over the chords".

 

I used G Major as a Key but just to keep you looking at this all over, I have a few lines using the idea in the Key of C Major (||: Em7 | Dm7 | Cmaj7 | Cmaj7 :||):

 

 

 

(just mixing up 5-6-7-9 and 1-2-3-5 from each chord)

Em7 Eb7 Dm7 Db7 Cmaj7

 

E-----------------------6--|--5-----------------------|---------

B-----------7-----6--8-----|-----6--5-----4-----------|---------

G-----6--7-----8-----------|-----------7-----4--3-----|---------

D--9-----------------------|-----------------------6--|--5------

A--------------------------|--------------------------|---------

E--------------------------|--------------------------|---------

 

(essentially using m7 arps for Em7 and Dm7, and using diminished subs for the Dominant chords or even thought of as || Em7 Em6 | Dm7 Dm6 | Cmaj7 | Cmaj7 ||)

 

Em7 Edim7 Dm7 Ddim7 Cmaj7

 

E----------------------------------|---------------------------------|-------

B----------12--15--14--11----------|----------10--13--12--9----------|-------

G------12------------------12------|------10-----------------10------|-------

D--14--------------------------14--|--12-------------------------12--|--10---

A----------------------------------|---------------------------------|-------

E----------------------------------|---------------------------------|-------

 

 

 

I have a ton of this application stuff at my forum, look through the Play The Changes, Bluesette, I-vi-ii-V, Footprints, etc, etc...here: http://mikedodge.freeforums.org/one-off-lessons-and-concepts-f2.html

 

There's a lot of stuff happening between chords, these are "other notes" guys are playing that aren't in your chord/scales. Those lessons will point it out a few ways.

 

Now, this is even true when you play over a static chord too, but understanding the stuff above will help you even when play over a static vamp.

[gennation]

Here's another idea for handling those chords chromatically:

 

 

!!! Use 1/8th notes in 4/4 !!!

 

 

 

Em7 Eb9 Dm7 Db9 Cmaj7

E--7--------------6--5-----|--5--------------4--3-----|--3-

B-----8-----------------8--|-----6-----------------6--|----

G--------9--7--6-----------|--------7--5--4-----------|----

D--------------------------|--------------------------|----

A--------------------------|--------------------------|----

E--------------------------|--------------------------|----

 

 

I copped this little move from the head of Little Willie Leaps. The whole lick isn't in the song but it happens once over one of the ii-V's. I just ripped it off using it to cover a number of ii-V's modulating.

 

Reason being...you look at the Eb9 as a sub for a A7 and the Db9 as a sub for G7.

 

So, the line comes about from a couple of ii-V's strung together backpedaling to C...Em7-A7-Dm7-G7-Cmaj7...and works nicely over Autumn Leaves and Bluesette.

[oiadscient]

Interesting so basically...........

 

 

 

Between Bm7 and Bm6 I am going from A to G# on the D String.

 

and from Bm6 to B dim7 I am going from F# to F

 

 

From Am7 to Am6 I am going from G to F# on the D String

 

and from Am6 to Adim7 I am going from E to D# on the b string

[oiadscient]

 

Now play like you are playing of all THOSE chords but have your rhythm track ONLY play the original progression. Also, to help your yourself hear this, when you create your rhythm track ONLY play the R, 3. and 7 of each chord...better yet just play the 3's and 7's. Let you line handle the Roots and 5th since you are ging to use them to move through the progression from "chord to chord" as opposed to "over the chords".

 

 

this doesnt really make sense to me. You want me to record a rhtyhm track with just the orginal progession of Bm7 Am7 Gmajor7 Gmajor 7

 

and then record on top of that Bm6 Bdim7 Am6 Adim7 ???

[gennation]

 

this doesnt really make sense to me. You want me to record a rhtyhm track with just the orginal progession of Bm7 Am7 Gmajor7 Gmajor 7 and then record on top of that Bm6 Bdim7 Am6 Adim7 ???

 

 

No just play Bm7-Am7-Gmaj7 as your chords. You can get an even tighter rhythm track if you just play the 3's and 7's of each chord.

 

Then play those lines against the rhythm track. You're lines will simulate you changing the chords, but the rhythm chords never really change from the basic chords.

[gennation]

 

Interesting so basically........... Between Bm7 and Bm6 I am going from A to G# on the D String. and from Bm6 to B dim7 I am going from F# to F From Am7 to Am6 I am going from G to F# on the D String and from Am6 to Adim7 I am going from E to D# on the b string

 

 

That's pretty much it.

[oiadscient]

really quick question, what do you mean by 3's and 7's of the chords?

 

Are you suggesting I make the chord easier by playing the first 3 notes of the chord?

[oiadscient]

P.S. why in the word would you talk about a Chord progression in G major, and then talk about a Scale progression in C major.

 

You make me sad.

 

 

Basically Im just going to learn this chromatic chord progression in C major now...and test out your C major scale. If I can play the chords and the scale decently I will record it and show you.

[skuller]

 

really quick question, what do you mean by 3's and 7's of the chords? Are you suggesting I make the chord easier by playing the first 3 notes of the chord?

 

 

3's and 7's are the voicings of a chord that truly define it's character.

 

in C minor, the 3 is Eb, and the 7 is Bb.

in C major, the 3 is E, and the 7 is B.

in C dominant, the 3 is Eb, and the 7 is B.

[gennation]

skuller's got the idea.

 

I started typing it in the Key of G and then realized all my canned examples are in C, no biggie...everyone needs to learn to move things around to different Keys. If this would've been a paid lesson, I would've re-wrote everything in context

[oiadscient]

 

No just play Bm7-Am7-Gmaj7 as your chords. You can get an even tighter rhythm track if you just play the 3's and 7's of each chord. Then play those lines against the rhythm track. You're lines will simulate you changing the chords, but the rhythm chords never really change from the basic chords.

 

 

come on talk in english.

 

You want me to play Bm7 Am7 Gmaj7. I can get it pretty tight as the full chord, so no need to just play the 3's and the 7's.

 

What "lines" are you talking about? Are you talking about the G major scale licks?

 

Im noticing that while I play the chromatics from the 5ths and the roots there is too much {censored} going on. Im noodling around in the g major scale, but it seems to be conflicting with the rhtyhm. Of course I may just not be doing it right.

[gennation]

Just play those chord progressions I posted, and then play the tab as a lead against it. Is that simple enough?

[skuller]

 

come on talk in english.

 

 

ouch! why bite the hand that feeds? tsk tsk.

[stomias]

 

come on talk in english. You want me to play Bm7 Am7 Gmaj7. I can get it pretty tight as the full chord, so no need to just play the 3's and the 7's. What "lines" are you talking about? Are you talking about the G major scale licks? Im noticing that while I play the chromatics from the 5ths and the roots there is too much {censored} going on. Im noodling around in the g major scale, but it seems to be conflicting with the rhtyhm. Of course I may just not be doing it right.

 

 

Guide tones.....that's English isn't it?

[jeremy_green]

No Kidding nice attitude

[stomias]

This is what professional and experienced guitarists use to not step on the toes of other players/soloists.

[oiadscient]

What do you mean?

 

Soloing over a chord progression is not rocket science. Are you refering to the chromatics of this lesson?

 

Like one guitar player plays the B7 A7 Gmaj7 progression another guitar player plays the chromatics Bm6 Bdim7 etc and another guitar player can solo over it?

[gennation]

Either way you want to slice it. Personally, any chord stuff would be the rhythm guys task, and the lead lines (single note tab lines) would be use to solo with.

[marcher5877]

"Take a common IIIm7-IIm7-Imaj7 progression in G Major:"

 

It would be easier for me to understand this written as...

 

iii7, ii7, I7

 

 

 

Chromatic passing tones are a great way to step in and out of what makes sense and what doesnt. They are interesting and jump to the listeners ear because they are the 'wrong' note, or they are a note that is not in the scale so we don't expect to hear them.

 

When they are used correctly, they pass so fast that by the time we hear that they are the wrong notes, we have already reached the next 'right' note.

 

Which, to make things even more confusing, makes the passing tones 'Right'

[gennation]

"Take a common IIIm7-IIm7-Imaj7 progression in G Major:" It would be easier for me to understand this written as... iii7, ii7, I7 Chromatic passing tones are a great way to step in and out of what makes sense and what doesnt. They are interesting and jump to the listeners ear because they are the 'wrong' note, or they are a note that is not in the scale so we don't expect to hear them. When they are used correctly, they pass so fast that by the time we hear that they are the wrong notes, we have already reached the next 'right' note. Which, to make things even more confusing, makes the passing tones 'Right'

 

You can write it however you want, I signify the Major and Minor.

 

I wouldn't call them "wrong" notes, they are simple notes that aren't in the scale.

 

Many people think the Key scale is what you use when playing over the music, when in reality the notes that aren't in the scale are just as important as the notes that are in the scale...actually more important for the resolving aspects of a scale. 1000's of melodies and songs prove this, but for some reason guitarist decide to be shown what to play instead of listening what to play...hence playing "over" chords instead of forward motion from chord to chord...hence the reason for this thread

[oiadscient]

its funny, im jamming out to this chord progression in G major

 

and I find myself playing this rhtyhm on Gmaj7 and Im like "hmm this sounds familiar" and then I forget about it. The next day comes and I happen to put on Meddle for {censored}s and giggles and low and behold that rhythm was right in front of me. I was playing San Tropez.