Trying To Unlearn and Learn For The First Time

[fancyfootwork]

One of my goals this year is to get more proficient at my guitar playing in the area of improvisation.

To give a small background:

- I sing and write my own music
- I play various instruments, but mainly guitar
- I can listen to something and tab it by ear (All chording/low level lead)
- I can copy when given instruction (tab/video) most intermediate guitar work and a few advanced pieces. I take those terms seriously (i.e. I don't consider stairway advanced)
- Technically been playing for 10 years now (I don't count owning the fingerhut guitar and pretending to play it in my teens).

The problem is:

- I can't read music, at all
- I can't speak "musician" to save my life
- I have no understanding of music theory
- I don't technically know the fretboard. I know from playing all these years what not to do in a simple soloing sense. The more advanced it is, I poke around and build the sound I want. It can be involved and progressive, but it takes time to get there and has to be memorized
-I have bad fretboard and picking habits

What I want:

I would love it if you guys could point me to a series, lesson, online membership, or even suggest a type of in-person teacher. I am not afraid of the work, but it is like math to me. It doesn't click, at all. So, I get frustrated with it. Tabs click. Watching someone do something and repeating it - clicks. Making up my own stuff - clicks. Music theory and note memorization is my nemesis. It isn't laziness so much as competency.

Basically, I am open for suggestions to material, techniques, etc. Do I need a physical teacher? Anyone ever been through this before and made it out on the other side?

Thanks a lot for your time. If you need an example of my playing (if anyone cares to take it that far) I can post a clip or two.

[vman4639]

I really like JustinGuitar.com. You have been playing long enough to know a lot of what is there, but working through it may fill in the gaps. Plus, his DVD's are really good. He makes it fun.

[jeremy_green]

Wow, what a well thought out and delivered question. Nice.

My immediate reaction is: Geez this dude clearly understands what he needs to do ... so devise and plan and attack it using all means necessary! Honestly, if you can find a great teacher locally - there is no better way than that. It is the fastest and most tailored to your specific needs. There are some fantastic players here who do skype lessons (ahem ... Jon Finn!) so i would hit him up. Long story short, you sound like you need to bounce some of that of someone who can help you prioritize it and develop a plan for you. Jon would be perfect for that. Then a local teacher maybe to help iron out your technique stuff. Online sites are OK - but they don't give instant feedback on how you are playing.

[jonfinn]

Fancy,

A BIG part of the learning process is figuring out:

-What you want to be able to do
-How you'll approach it
-The best way to present the task to yourself so that success is likely.

You've done most of that already. I think all roads lead to Rome. There's no "prescribed order" in which you must learn things. Rather, it's important to know how you learn. On music theory and reading, I'm a big proponent of both, but I also acknowledge that learning it is a total pain in the ass. But getting there is so worth it!

Yes. I do teach Skype lessons. I think there's a few others here who do too. I'm sure you'll find the right teacher!

All the best success!

[JonR]

Excellent question and excellent answers! (tho jeremy probably didn't NEED to post his twice...)

If I can just add my $0.02...

- I can't read music, at all

who cares? Lots of great players (and even songwriters) can't/couldn't.
Of course it's useful. It means you can learn from books; and it means you can right down your own ideas in a better way than tab.
If you want to learn it, it's not hard. Just requires a little application... There are plenty of books out there (even ones aimed at guitarists!) and it shouldn't need a teacher.
You can also learn quite a lot by looking at books or magazines that contain both tab and notation, and cross-referencing.

- I can't speak "musician" to save my life

Could be more of an issue, although it depends exactly what you mean. You need to be able to "speak musician" enough to communicate efficiently with any musicians you find yourself playing with, but that may not need much theoretical knowledge. If you (and they) can understand "let's jam a 12-bar in E", that may well be enough .
But if you work with (or want to work with) people who might say "give me an Ab13#11" or "let's jam a rhythm changes in Eb", or "I think your song needs a modulation in the bridge to the relative minor via a secondary dominant" - and your response is - you need to do some work...

- I have no understanding of music theory

You probably mean "not enough", not none. Chord names are theory and I bet you know a few of those - even if you have no idea what the names mean.

Again, this comes down to how much you need (or would like) to communicate with other musicians, and - of course - how much they are likely to know, or expect you to know.

Then again, your experience suggests you actually DO know a LOT of theory, but in an organic, intuitive, "blind" way. You know what sounds right, and you know how to get it. Theory is only about naming what sounds right, so it comes back to verbal communication with other musicians.

- I don't technically know the fretboard.

Again, you obviously have knowledge, but presumably not the kind you want - which I'm guessing is note names; and maybe alternative chord shapes (ways to form chords aside from the shapes you know).

Learning notes on the fretboard is a no-brainer. It might take a while to get fast, but in principle it's dead easy. I guess you know the open strings EADGBE (duh, right? See you know more than you pretend...). The only other thing you need to know is the natural notes formula, that there's 2 frets between every pair of notes except B-C and E-F, which are 1 fret apart:
|-A-|---|-B-|-C-|---|-D-|---|-E-|-F-|---|-G-|---|-A-|
(Maybe you're saying "duh!" to that too. In which case, where's the problem?)
That means you can work out any note on any fret on any string.

OK, you won't get it in a split second to begin with! It might take you 10-15 seconds to work out any one note (counting up from the open string); but shouldn't take any longer than that. And it will get quicker the more you do it.
And the more you do it, the more you'll see patterns across the strings, such as where the unisons and octaves fall.
(Sharps and flats are obviously in the spaces - no need to learn those too; just that between (say) F and G is either F# or Gb.)

This will of course start to reveal other theoretical information, such as which notes are in those chord shapes you know, and in any scale patterns you know.
And that in turn enables you to learn other shapes (indeed full arpeggios) for your chords.
Eg, when you find that a D chord contains the notes D, F# and A, then as you learn your fretboard you'll realise that anywhere you can grab those 3 notes at the same time you'll have another D chord shape. Which is pretty much anywhere on the neck (the arpeggio certainly covers the whole neck).

You really have no excuse (you need no teacher for this!) not to start on this right now... print this out and stick it up somewhere (I'm showing two octaves, so you can take all the notes on any string from somewhere in the pattern, at least as far as 12th fret):

|A|-|B|C|-|D|-|E|F|-|G|-|A|-|B|C|-|D|-|E|F|-|G|-|A|

-I have bad fretboard and picking habits

Ah-ha! Good that you're aware of those.
I guess you mean that some of your techniques are slowing you down (that's the way bad habits generally reveal themselves).
A teacher probably is the best answer here, because only someone sitting in front of you and watching you can really diagnose the problem(s).

Over to Jon... (Skype is not ideal, but probably next best thing to being in the same room)

[fancyfootwork]

I wanted to say thanks to all of you for the extremely well thought and composed responses. I have no doubt I picked the right place to ask my question. Jon Finn, I am going to take a look at your site right now.

And JonR, I think you are right in the round about way of suggesting I am slightly over complicating things and need a physical presence (be it virtual or in person). I guess technically I do know music theory, just a basic level. And hey, that is something to work from!

All your advice given is no falling on deaf ears (eyes). Thank you very much.