Members ginnboonmiller Posted October 13, 2005 Members Share Posted October 13, 2005 Let's see if I can remember to do this regularly. Or if anyone gives a crap. This month: tenor saxophonist David Murray. With a bold, Sonny Rollinsish sound and a knack for slipping in and out of chord changes willy-nilly, David Murray was thought by most critics in the early 1980s to be the Future of Jazz. At last, everyone thought, here is the man who can reunite the cutting edge of the free guys with the overly conservative mainstream! And boy, could he. 1980's Ming is a tour-de-force, with Murray leading a fantastic Octet, scored like a mini-big band through some seriously heavy {censored} that stretched the ears without making them snap off. Then Wynton Marsalis showed up and everyone forgot about Murray. Too bad. He's still working and still great, but occasionally remembers that he was supposed to be relevant and puts out schlocky stuff to win the spotlight back. But damn, Ming alone should put him in the canon for all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members elctmist Posted October 13, 2005 Members Share Posted October 13, 2005 Any place we can hear stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ginnboonmiller Posted October 13, 2005 Author Members Share Posted October 13, 2005 Originally posted by elctmist Any place we can hear stuff? Guess I should do that work, huh? Okay, gimme a couple minutes and I'll see what I can track down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members telepaul Posted October 13, 2005 Members Share Posted October 13, 2005 I'll check it out. Don't bother yourself on our account; I'll just look for it on half dot com and give it a shot. Sounds like something I'd like... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ginnboonmiller Posted October 13, 2005 Author Members Share Posted October 13, 2005 David Murray is a real common name, though... Here, third track on the list:http://www.wfmu.org/playlists/shows/16589 And of course, he is now more known for his work with the World Saxophone Quartet these days, who don't quite qualify for underrated or obscure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members voerking Posted October 13, 2005 Members Share Posted October 13, 2005 i dig his work in the world saxophone quartet (with the breathtaking julius hemphill) and the music revolution ensemble (with james blood ulmer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members voerking Posted October 13, 2005 Members Share Posted October 13, 2005 WSQ sucked after hemphill died, though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ginnboonmiller Posted October 13, 2005 Author Members Share Posted October 13, 2005 Originally posted by voerking WSQ sucked after hemphill died, though I disagree, much as I dig Hemphill. John Purcell is amazing. Maybe he should be November's candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members voerking Posted October 13, 2005 Members Share Posted October 13, 2005 i admit i haven't heard all that much post-hemphill WSQ, but the stuff i heard had wailing gospel vocals all over it...i just couldn't hang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members voerking Posted October 13, 2005 Members Share Posted October 13, 2005 also, oliver lake, who was absolutely brilliant in the 70's and early 80's, has become a total cheesball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members frankn Posted October 13, 2005 Members Share Posted October 13, 2005 David Murray is giant musician. I think he usualy gets a place after orrnete colemen in the jazz history books. not as obscure as others but still unsung enough. I remember seeing the grateful dead and he got up and jammed with them. He also did a whole albums worth of grateful dead's music. very open minded guy creative guy, the total opposite of wynton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ginnboonmiller Posted October 13, 2005 Author Members Share Posted October 13, 2005 Originally posted by frankn David Murray is giant musician. I think he usualy gets a place after orrnete colemen in the jazz history books. I saw this post coming from miles away. First of all, I'm writing a jazz history book, and have read an awful lot of them in preparation, and you're wrong. He gets short shrift -- usually a paragraph about WSQ at the end of the book. Secondly, and more importantly, both "underrated" and "obscure" are going to be in implied quotation marks for the duration of this series. Aficianados need not argue on the relative obscurities of my selections -- I'm gonna go for the general HCFX audience, who know Miles, Monk and a bunch of guitarists. If you want to, pleasepleaseplease start your own "obscure jazz guys" threads!!! I am perpetually hungry for new discoveries! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members voerking Posted October 13, 2005 Members Share Posted October 13, 2005 have you heard all the early hemphill records? dogon AD, coon bidness (aka reflections), flat out jump suite, raw materials and residuals, blue boye...badass stuff. also, the aforementioned oliver lake 70's/80's records - heavy spirits, holding together, NTU.... i'm from st. louis, so i have a BAG fixation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ginnboonmiller Posted October 13, 2005 Author Members Share Posted October 13, 2005 Originally posted by voerking have you heard all the early hemphill records? dogon AD, coon bidness (aka reflections), flat out jump suite, raw materials and residuals, blue boye...badass stuff.also, the aforementioned oliver lake 70's/80's records - heavy spirits, holding together, NTU....i'm from st. louis, so i have a BAG fixation. I LOVE that crap! Arthur Blythe, too -- all of those St. Louis guys are fantastic. Do you know Five Chord Stud? The Hemphill album that he made when he was too sick to play? A lot of folks I've spoken to have stayed away from it because Hemphill doesn't play on it, but damn if he wasn't still an amazing composer/arranger. One of my faves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jeverist Posted October 13, 2005 Members Share Posted October 13, 2005 Wow, all that and playing lead guitar for Iron Maiden. That guy's amazing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members voerking Posted October 13, 2005 Members Share Posted October 13, 2005 yeah, five card stud is great! arthur blythe - his record "illusions" is one of my absolute faves. pretty much any record with abdul wadud on cello is badass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members frankn Posted October 13, 2005 Members Share Posted October 13, 2005 Originally posted by ginnboonmiller I saw this post coming from miles away.First of all, I'm writing a jazz history book, and have read an awful lot of them in preparation, and you're wrong. He gets short shrift -- usually a paragraph about WSQ at the end of the book.Secondly, and more importantly, both "underrated" and "obscure" are going to be in implied quotation marks for the duration of this series. Aficianados need not argue on the relative obscurities of my selections -- I'm gonna go for the general HCFX audience, who know Miles, Monk and a bunch of guitarists. If you want to, pleasepleaseplease start your own "obscure jazz guys" threads!!! I am perpetually hungry for new discoveries! I called him giant in the sense that he is a great musician. I didn't mean to imply that the books give him a whole chapter. so I agree with you here that he does only get a blurb in the books so no argument on his obscurity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jcn37203 Posted October 13, 2005 Members Share Posted October 13, 2005 Originally posted by ginnboonmiller Here, third track on the list:http://www.wfmu.org/playlists/shows/16589 Thanks for reinforcing my belief that I do not get jazz. To me, that sounds like two recordings of the Tonight Show Band being played on top of each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bad_guitar_player Posted October 13, 2005 Members Share Posted October 13, 2005 weird, i just picked up David Murray's Children record last weekend and it's pretty cool. i also have the Hill, which is great as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fernmeister Posted October 14, 2005 Members Share Posted October 14, 2005 hmmm, being obscure and underrated is, well, overrated. it is an odd quirk of online fora that obscurantism is so venerated. it's not only that being into an artist or piece of equipment that is not well known by the masses is taken as a badge of credibility, but that flaunting such knowledge in order to create debates about exactly how obscure the said artist or gear is becomes not only acceptable, but worthwhile. the problem is that no matter how well intentioned the debate might be, it always comes off reading like juvenile posturing. as a jazz musician and a jazz fan I love the idea of and evangelism for the genre. let's highlight artists, albums, trends, whatever. let's share knowledge, clips, performance stories and so on. let's build a community of jazz that is attractive to people who are curious about and interested in knowing more about jazz. but let's not buy into the jejune game of obscurantism, which always carries with it the stench of a dying genre. if the music is good, let it speak for itself. as for Murray, he is a killer player and was very well known in the late 80s and early 90s (i'm pretty sure he featured a number of times in downbeat, for example). these days he best known for his work with the WSQ, sure, but for some, that is the path back into his large back catalogue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ginnboonmiller Posted October 14, 2005 Author Members Share Posted October 14, 2005 Originally posted by ginnboonmiller I saw this post coming from miles away. both "underrated" and "obscure" are going to be in implied quotation marks for the duration of this series. Aficianados need not argue on the relative obscurities of my selections -- I'm gonna go for the general HCFX audience, who know Miles, Monk and a bunch of guitarists. If you want to, pleasepleaseplease start your own "obscure jazz guys" threads!!! I am perpetually hungry for new discoveries! I hate to repeat myself. Which, fern, also means that far more damage is done to the reputation of jazz by the stereotypical jazz snob that is proud of his (it's always a him) training and knowledge and thereby condescends to everyone else at the party who wants to discuss jazz (ever met Ira Gitler? Never wanted to spit on someone so badly in my life!)... I'm rambling, and tired. Far more damage is done by that guy than by someone enthusiastic to share new music with people who might use one or two trigger words to get attention. Dig? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fernmeister Posted October 14, 2005 Members Share Posted October 14, 2005 hmmm, being obscure and underrated is, well, overrated. it is an odd quirk of online fora that obscurantism is so venerated. it's not only that being into an artist or piece of equipment that is not well known by the masses is taken as a badge of credibility, but that flaunting such knowledge in order to create debates about exactly how obscure the said artist or gear is becomes not only acceptable, but worthwhile. the problem is that no matter how well intentioned the debate might be, it always comes off reading like juvenile posturing. as a jazz musician and a jazz fan I love the idea of and evangelism for the genre. let's highlight artists, albums, trends, whatever. let's share knowledge, clips, performance stories and so on. let's build a community of jazz that is attractive to people who are curious about and interested in knowing more about jazz. but let's not buy into the jejune game of obscurantism, which always carries with it the stench of a dying genre. if the music is good, let it speak for itself. as for Murray, he is a killer player and was very well known in the late 80s and early 90s (i'm pretty sure he featured a number of times in downbeat, for example). these days he best known for his work with the WSQ, sure, but for some, that is the path back into his large back catalogue.Sorry for re-posting this, but it is frustrating when a comment gets stuck on the end of a page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ginnboonmiller Posted October 14, 2005 Author Members Share Posted October 14, 2005 Doesn't really change your point and manner right now. We both need a couple deep breaths and to agree not to out-snob each other. 'Kay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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